QDM
 

Alright here's the deal. I am doing an argumentative paper on the benefits QDM (I'm taking the stand that I'm for it) but I want to get everyone's opinion on for it/against it and why or why not. I do not intend for this to be a flame fest or anything of the sort. I appreciate your help. If I'm missing anything let me know.

any input would be greatly appreciated

RE: QDM
 

I'm for it and do my part to practice it, but I don't control all the other hunters or enough ground to make it work as well as it could.

Dan

RE: QDM
 

same here :)

RE: QDM
 

RE: QDM
 

I am all for QDM. I am against "Antler Managment" that is called QDM.

RE: QDM
 

anyone who is against it, please feel free to leave some feedback on why you feel that way. any arguments are important to my paper

RE: QDM
 

Can't afford enough land to put my efforts into something I have a hard time controling, meaning the land owners or hunters around me.
It seems to me that I would be the only one sacrificing for many years until I could reap the benifits??!!

RE: QDM
 

Your not allowed to be against QDMA .But if I were this is an example why,
And I copied this from this site.:eek:
Becausethis is just nota way of thinking I can agree with. I have no hatred for the deer I soenjoy hunting.

RE: QDM
 

QDM (not antler management) in it's true form is about the animal/species. It may or may not be what hunters want but it's not about hunters. Hunting is all about deer management, we are managers, we manage the herd through hunting licensing and filling tags. Why not manage for a quality herd?

RE: QDM
 

I do my part by harvesting does only,I feel that there are to many does to buck so I harvest doe's,but this is in my area....
Other areas may be differant where QDM may need to be practiced more and some areas where it really iasnt a issue.....

My answer was mixed.....

RE: QDM
 

Rob, you're exactly correct......but........I don't feel there is a true and pure form of QDM anymore. QDM is antler management, and that's the way it is. Yes, I understand that a by product of QDM will be larger racked bucks.....But it's no longer a by product, it'sa goal. The end result of that is money.

I want to be perfectly clear in saying that what someone does w/ their own land is their business, and I'm behind them 100%. But outfitters are making TONS of money on what? Shooting does?? Hell no, and that's a HUGE part of QDM. BIG RACKS is what they're making money on. I've seen trophy fees up to $400 an INCH over 140".........OMG......shoot a 170" deer, and you've spent $12000 on trophy fees alone. That's not including the 4 or 5 grand you spent on the hunt. States are making a pile of money as well, raising out of state permit costs. This is all "hidden" under the QDM blanket. QDM is about money. In it's pure and truest form, it's about a healthy deer herd. With large racks being a by product.

Anymore, I think it's about large racks w/ a healty deer herd as a by product. I'm all for a healthy deer herd, and if that means antler restrictions, well......so be it. BUT, what really ticks me off is legislation telling me it's about the deer......Sorry, but I gotta call bluff on that one. That's just how they market it. I know it sounds like I am against QDM, and I'm not. I just wish they would call it what it is.

RE: QDM
 

YES, I support QDM, and try to practice it on the places I hunt, regardless of what the other hunters do, but there are only a handful of other hunters on all of the places I hunt anyhow.

Unfortunately, this is the attitude of a bunch of Michigan Hunters I've encountered. Except they'll shoot all the small bucks and let the does go because it isn't "manly" to kill a doe. The state of Michigan should be producing bucks of the same quality of OHIO, Wisconsin, Indiana, and Illinois, but it's not, because the DNR hasn't managed the herd as well. Can't blame the hunters, when the DNR keeps letting them kill 2 bucks each year without having any incentive to control the doe herd. I've heard a few guys gripe because they would hunt all day and see 20+ does but NO BUCKS!!! Certainly we have some of these type hunters in OH, too, but they can only kill ONE buck a year, therefore oftentimes, they get a little more picky.

I think Antler Restrictions are a form of QDM, but often times are only a partial attempt at a good QDM, but at least they are an effort. I believe PA is a good example of where AR have improved the bucks being harvested, but the state has put out so many doe permits that the overall herd took a beating from many of the reports I've heard.

RE: QDM
 

EXACTLY. This has become misconstrued over the years here in PA by many hunters. I sat in on one of Alt's presentations in the early years of PA's QDM (and antley restrictions). The MAIN focus of his plan (from what I gathered) was focused on creating a HEALTHIER herd that specific environments could sustain. The antler restrictions were simply a by-product (although a good one). Alt showed studies done on fenced off sections of state game lands in relation to those left out to serve as deer browse, and the results were quite alarming. PA's system was aimed at lowering deer numbers (which is why many guys complain), but im my opinion, that was the intended goal...so as to make the herd healthier maintain and keep the numbers to what the partiular environment could sustain. QDM and antler restrictions have become snyonomous over they years, when, imho, they are different.

This type of management I'm all for. It's looking out for the species.

RE: QDM
 

x2

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Unfortunately, I also believe much of QDM is based upon the ALMIGHTY DOLLAR as well Mobow, good post, and good points.

RE: QDM
 

Just curious - what is the sucess rate for 2 bucks?
- for 1 buck also?

RE: QDM
 

I support and practice it to the extent I can and ask others to practice it when on my property. However, I dont own enough land for it to be real effective nor do I have the information needed to really do it correctly, like buck doe ratios, doe population, age structure etc. About all I can do is leave the young bucks go and I dont think that is true QDM, so again, to the extent of my abilities.

One thing I dont and will never do is deny a young hunter, hunting for his first or second deer, the right to shoot any deer of his or herchoosing. Should a 1.5 year old 6 pointer walk by, the smile and following addiction to the sport is more important to me than a possible rack3 years down the line.

RE: QDM
 

I notice a lot of different definitions for QDM. What's yours? Is it about producing "quality" deer? Or a "quality" deer herd. You won't find many people against a large healthy deer herd. You would find more people against only trying to produce big bucks.

RE: QDM
 

I'll be honestI checked no/mixed emotions.

I believe in doing it if you own, or have sole control over who hunts the land and canmake a standand enforce the goals of the herd and property.

I don't think one person or even a group of people can do anything on tracts of land that are beyond enforcement of these goals. (such as public lands). That doesn't mean that a person cannot do what they feel is the right thing. I typically don't shoot doe(s). Yet I pay the non resident fee and apply for my doe permit in PA every year. Even when my WMU is sold out (which it always is, before a non resident can apply) I buy for a bordering area. Why? because it's my belief that the PA herd has been depleted of too many doe. (I'm no wildlife Biologists and obviously they disagree, but I do what I feel is the right thing in this instance).

I'm also selfish in that, my one Buck tag..is used at my disgression. I'll decide what buck I take (or don't take). I don't think you'll ever hear me say anything about a shooting cull buck. (unless I win some hunt at TheDrury Farm)Let some youngster or retired guy, or a meat huntershoot him.

RE: QDM
 

I have never understood the argument that QDM is either about $ OR about the health of the deer herd. I have many issues regarding this being a "money" issue, but I'll ignore those for now. My main point to make is WHY CAN'T IT BE ABOUT BOTH?

Quality products and fulfilling people's wants and desires at prices that they are willing and able to pay makes a business successful. It is no different for a state's DOW or DNR. They have to have a quality product in order to charge more $ for it. So, in the end the deer herd, the hunters, and the state all make out. I don't see why that is viewed as bad.

RE: QDM
 

This is the problem. Ideally, yes, everyone wants a LARGE AND HEALTHY herd, but there are other elements involved (environmental conditions, urban encroachment, habitat, food supply, etc), SOME places cannot have both. Sometimes a smaller herd is a healthier herd in that it's an optimum number that balances the number for deer in the herd to what the particular environment can sustain. I'm not for

RE: QDM
 

I'm for people doing whatever kind of QDM they want on their own property. Not interested in having it shoved down my throat, though. There is not much of any QDM in the area where my land is located and everybody that puts in some effort generally gets a nice buck. if it aint broke, dont try to fix it.

RE: QDM
 

My biggest problem with the movement is they can't shut up about it. Then again if a hunter wants to tell me where the deer are I'm not going to let the info go.

Why do you think bows and equipment cost so much? (hint,hint paper writer the cost of QDM)Didyaknow when the gold rush was on in California that a land speculator sent out with the unaware miners barrels of dust that looked like gold and dumped them into springs on land they owned. They finally were able to sell that land at unheard of prices. It wasn't a state yet and shortly after the Gov. came in and thanked them for their fine work and at the same time the wealthy took over. The guy who first discovered the gold died broke and insane. The story is repeated over and over. The hunting industry is in the middle of it now. "That's a fine deer you got there boy! Ya know in order for us to maintain such high standards were going to need your help".

It's the Horn Rush and most of you guys are the miners (they didn't do well) Some of you are the shovel salesmen (they were the real winners if you want to call it that way). "This equipment will get you that big buck", " I got this buck and owe it all to brand X". Baloney.

Some of you guys froth up more than my hound dog does when he's onto something. You already know, I'm nodog.:D

RE: QDM
 

i support QDM i don't bother practicing now because there are a metric ton of deer in MI (especially where i hunt) call it Quantity control. I will most definately practice QDM when i get my own place

RE: QDM
 

what does everyone consider a shooter buck?
for me it's gotta be a 3.5 for sure, but he's gotta be 125-130 depending on the deer.

RE: QDM
 

Exactly.

RE: QDM
 

Most 3.5's in my area are border P@Y. They will usually get the pass unless there supporting a 130" to 135" rack or just the opposite and aren't going to amount to anything. Most of them 3.5's I let go will be 140"+ 4.5's next year. Thats what I'm after and I know there P@Y bucks without a dought.

RE: QDM
 

Great post! 100% agree

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Ditto.....

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QDM is really just getting the herd back to the way mother nature intended. 50/50 sex ratio and a balanced age structure. I find it hard to believe anyone would be opposed to that.

RE: QDM
 

For those of you lucky enough to own sufficient land or be teamed up with honest neighbors QDM is great and even antlers restrictions at state imposed levels seems by all account to be increasing rack size if not overall number but I believe the vast majority of hunters hunt public land and are are thrilled to harvest pretty much any deer.

I have 30 years of experience under my belt but I shoot 2.5 YO bucks on public land. Is that QDM?? I hunt for the love of it and a big rack alone is not my only measure of success.

I'm betting 90% of us would love a big enough chunk to put in a food plot never mind manage OUR herd. It would be cool to have a poll of struggling public land hunters vs those who own or lease land. To those of you who do own land, I am jealous. .. Good luck to all.

RE:no! QDM
 

All depends on the quality at hand,in some parts of the country were big bucks roam i would say yes,but here where i hunt i would end up hanging up my bow,so i arrow whatever crosses my path or do with out.......

RE: RE:no! QDM
 

I agree that in some areas, it is very hard to do. does that mean it is impossible, no, but I can see that it would be hard to be serious about it, and I don't blame those who hunt areas like that.

BTW everyone Thank you very much, this has really been great for my research paper and I appreciate it more than you know. It does make for good topic. I am all for being happy with what you shoot, and being proud to tell that story. that is one of the best parts of hunting. Thanks again!

RE: QDM
 

What is the goal for QDM? Is it a healthy deer herd or is it for better quality of bucks?Both? Can someone tell me what was QDM was intended to do from the start.I don't really have an opion on it ,need more info.I would like to see more does killed in my hunting area and less young bucks,but that's my personal preference and it is hard to do if all the hunters around you don't have the same goals.How large an area do you think it would take to accomplish something like this.

RE: QDM
 

I agree with those who are saying they are for QDM but against antler management. Just letting little bucks walk and not harvesting any does is harming your deer herd more than helping it and will in turn lead to smaller buck sizes anyway. Like magic man said, "QDM is really just getting the herd back to the way mother nature intended. 50/50 sex ratio and a balanced age structure." Its like Lee and Tiffany on Gettin' Close, I think most supporters of actual QDM despise when Tiffany says "Bigger Bucks" and love when Lee says, "healthier deer." Healthier deer and a balanced deer herd are the goals, not just trophy bucks. Also, one thing I've never understood is those who are opposed to QDM and say they are hunitng solely for meat but refuse to shoot does and take small spikes, 4 and 6 pointers. If you're simply out their hunting for meat, it shouldn't matter whether you harvest a doe or not IMO.

RE: QDM
 

What is Quality Deer Management? Printer Friendly Quality Deer Management (QDM) is a management philosophy/practice that unites landowners, hunters, and managers in a common goal of producing biologically and socially balanced deer herds within existing environmental, social, and legal constraints. This approach typically involves the protection of young bucks (yearlings and some 2.5 year-olds) combined with an adequate harvest of female deer to maintain a healthy population in balance with existing habitat conditions and landowner desires. This level of deer management involves the production of quality deer (bucks, does, and fawns), quality habitat, quality hunting experiences, and, most importantly, quality hunters.

A successful QDM program requires an increased knowledge of deer biology and active participation in management. This level of involvement extends the role of the hunter from mere consumer to manager. The progression from education to understanding, and finally, to respect; bestows an ethical obligation upon the hunter to practice sound deer management. Consequently, to an increasing number of landowners and hunters, QDM is a desirable alternative to traditional management, which allows the harvest of any legal buck and few, if any, does.

QDM guidelines are formulated according to property-specific objectives, goals, and limitations. Participating hunters enjoy both the tangible and intangible benefits of this approach. Pleasure can be derived from each hunting experience, regardless if a shot is fired. What is important is the chance to harvest a quality buck - an opportunity lacking in many areas under traditional management. When a quality buck is taken on a QDM area, the pride can be shared by all property hunters because it was they who produced it by allowing it to reach the older age classes which are necessary for large bodies and antlers.

RE: QDM
 

I pretty much never see this where I am. Those opposed to mandatory AR (which has little to do with REAL QDM) who call themselves meat hunters are as willing to shoot does as small bucks.

The ones that don't shoot their share of does tend to be the trophy hunters looking to ONLY shoot big antlers and nothing else.

Then we have the ones that say they are QDM - only shoot 6 pt or better. Trouble is here in CNY, the majority of 6 pts are 1 1/2 old - same as the spike or 4 pt that they don't want anyone else shooting. NO logic at all, but golly "we are QDM"!

Steve

RE: QDM
 

around here I, too, get the "I'm a meat hunter" shpeel yet they don't shoot does. Even if you are a meat hunter strictly, in most areas there are enough does to go around twice, why not just shoot one of them instead of a little buck, sinc obviously the bucks don't matter. I don't mean to step on any toes with that statement, but I see that a lot, and it makes no sense to me.

RE: QDM
 

They may be willing to shoot young bucks AND does, but I gurantee you that the majority of your meat hunters, will harvest younger bucks on a regular basis. Why, becuase young bucks are easy, thus the hunter can routinely harvest. My problem is, is you are a meat hunter then you are hunting for the best meat, no? Just as trophy hunters are hutning for the best trophy. So why not hunt for the best meat (does) rather than harvesting a young ignorant buck.

RE: QDM
 

Good stuff, guys.;)