Arthur, on that one, I agree whole heartedly. Sorry I miss read your meaning.<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

PABowhntr - &quot; We have rules in place right now that limit equipment....lets try to stay with those....and not get more stringent or more lenient&quot;

Therein lies the problem. WHat did you invision bowhunting 15 years ago ? Did you invision one cam technology, 80% letoff, fiber optic pins, rangefinders, high tech releases, 2 3/4 lb bows, carbon arrows, mechanical heads etc ? If so, what do you think bowhunting will be in the next 15 years ? You cannot stop technology.

Already I have seen sights with built in rangefinders. We'll soon see bows that shoot through the riser, tru center shot bows, or Matthews will again revolutionize things with some other unique design. What will pins, releases, arrows and broadheads be ? Will you accept it all with no problems ?

Guys, I can take any of ya'll bows, or any off any shelf, and within a couple of hours I can be hitting a 3 inch circle at 30 yards, maybe 40 yards. Is that tooo sophisticated ? I aint a great shot either, but I can do that. I can take a guy thats never shot a bow before and in one day, maybe two, I can teach him with a high tech bow how to become proficient with it, a 6 inch circle, at 20 yards, no problems. Am I not right here - isn't this reality ?

So then the equipment no longer becomes part of the challenge of the hunt, its the hunt itsself, right ? Why then have an archery only season and why not allow crossbows everywhere ? Wht not allow iron sighted pistols ? These are questions ya'll aren't touching, why ? Theres truth in them maybe ?

Yes, I have went to a longbow, and I have done it for the challenge of the equipment. I do it for me, because its the hardest thing I have ever tried to do I think. Shooting my compound last season was, well, a bore. There was no challenge there, I literally could have gotten the same results shooting a crossbow or handgun.

I am not against compound hunters in anyway, I am just trying to raise some questions that pertain to sophisitication and advancing technology thats slowly taking away what the fun of archery is about IMO.

Modern archery equipment does make it easier to become proficient as far as accuracy goes. Is this a bad thing? I agree with some, in that, how far is too far with technology? As far as laser rangefinders go... IMHO, they are the greatest new tool to archery hunting. I understand that it takes away from the old fashioned system of learning to judge distance. I have hunted with stick and string since 1974, and have traveled from coast to coast, shooting in national 3-d events. I have seen the greatest competitors in this sport shoot hundreds and hundreds of shots. I have seen Burly Hall, Randy Ulmer, Randy Chappel, Dave Stepp, Jeff Hopkins, and countless others, who make their living by judging distance, misjudge a target by 5yds. or more. It costs them 5 points. In a hunting situation, it would cost them a wounded, possibly lost animal. What I am getting at is that over rolling terrain, with obstructions to hinder your sight of the ground from point A to point B, anyone can, and eventually will grossly misjudge a distance. Even the fastest bows can only help this by a small fraction. If it takes a space age gadget to prevent this even one time, on a live critter, I will use it. I know that a rangefinder is only a small part of what this thread is about, but with all of the advancements we have available to us today, bowhunting is still basically a 20yd. game.

Maybe someone can help me with this lazer rangefinder thing.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but most bowhunting shots on whitetails are taken within 30 yards. The average is much closer, within 20 yards. Now, given that bowhunters have demanded, and recieved, bows capable of shooting 300 fps and up; given that you could misjudge a deer that is inside 30 yards by at least 5 yards and still have flat enough trajectory to easily hit the lung area for a clean kill; What's the point in having a lazer rangefinder for the vast majority of us that have decent binocular vision and normal depth perception?

If we still shot slow old bows like we had 20 years ago, I could see it. We've gone so far with the speeds we shoot now, just to keep from having to make precise yardage estimates, and now you say we need a gizmo that gives us the yardage to within a gnat's @$$?

I didn't think too much about this rangefinder business until I found out what the knuckleheads in IBO's Mens Compound Release class did. Now I'm worried.

In the excitement of a hunting situation, some may misjudge by more than 5yds. What if they are shooting a 220fps bow? I stated my opinion, unless I am misjudging your content,Aurthur P, I think you are all worked up over it. And, I will bite...what did the &quot;knuckleheads&quot; in the IBO mbr class do?

stealthycat; I have an all new bow, patented and I built it myself. It looks like a recurve and it shoots like a compound. This means it compares to a compound in many ways; speed, let-off, draw curve. This bow is in no way an advantage over todays compounds, it is only diffrent in a neet and simple kind of way. It realy has the looks of a recurve because it has recuved limbs and it has no cams. The limbs are attached to the riser on a pins that allow the limbs to tilt back as the bow is drawn, the limbs are connected to each other by a pair of cables to keep the bow in tune. I will be at the AMO show to introduce the bow to the archery industry this weekend, I will be in booth # 2608, company name CAPSTONE ARCHERY, I have been looking forward to this week for a long time, and hope to meet some of you there. thank you.

joethebownut - Is bowhunting getting to sophisticated ? That was the question. My longbow is multi laminated with American and African woods, I shoot Easton aluminums and a manufactured Magnus broadhead. I am far from tradional as self bowyers go, but I am also far from the MQ2 shooter who use Rocket heads, Scott releases, laser range sights, shooting 300 fps.

I am not against using the best weapon a person can - sort of. If using the best equipment is the bottom line, allow crossbows across the boards because a lot of people can/could should them better than their compounds. But its not about that, is it ? Its about being able to draw your bow on a deer, the challenge of the equipment AND the hunt itself. Add the laser stuff, the blistering FPS, the solo cams, the carbon riser, and who knows what else in the next 15 years, and you've eliminated the equipment factor, haven't you ? Might as well use a cross bow, a draw loc or a short range, iron sighted handgun.

I am NOT against compounds, but the increase in technology has defintely changed bowhunting, and I have to wonder if its for the better.

Too each his or her own. Improvements in safety for the hunter and clean kills on the game speak for themselves. I think someone said, get out of the tree stand and hunt them insted of waiting in ambush if you want more of a challenge - no? For some of us the tree stand is the &quot;gadget&quot;. I know a guy who gets all the enjoyment in the world out of sitting on a milk crate during rifle season waiting hour after hour for a buck to appear. He gets a deer on that stand year after year and that's great. Gun to much? Method too much. Not for that 74 year old. We have enough people trying to get us to do it &quot;their way&quot;. I like the technology stuff but don't think it will kill a deer for you. Each of us have our own individual ways of making the hunt a hunt. Ever seen someone with too many gadgets and not enough practice? Let them have their toys.

amen to that stealthy! 15 years from now LOL I dont even want to think of what the industry will conjure up...arrows with broadheads built in, homing/heat sensing devices. I guess my thoughts are where do you draw the line between it being hunting and shooting? (and distance has nothing to do with it). Its almost like just going through the motions if you know what I mean.

I dont agree however on the lamintated bows being untraditional. They are however not primitive. Look at Fred Bear. I do believe they were shooting fiberglassed bows back in the late 40's early 50's! Primitive is a hole different ball game! Very few people I know of are 100% primitive. Heck even back in the haydays of cowboys and indians the indians went to steel heads (trade points) and soon to firearms. Why, because there life depended on it. If we want tradition we would all be carrying a hawkins 50 cal flint lock! <img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>!

Big Country, I'm not worked up over it at all. It's not my money. I simply don't understand the need. I can tell 20 from 25 and 25 from 30 with one cornea tied behind my back and the seat of my britches on fire!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

About the MCR class. Seems the men's orange stake is too hard for them and they pitched a fit with IBO. They got themselves moved to the ladies green stake now. The fingers shooters and the seniors are still at the men's stake. The release shooters are shooting with the women.

I don't quite have the words to say exactly how I feel about THAT. But I'm sure you can guess.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

We started out 3D'ing out to about 80 yards. After a few years it got cut to about 60. Then 50. Now they don't want to shoot past 45. During the same time, bows have gone from 180 fps to over 300 fps. We've gone from shooting predominantly fingers to nearly 100% release. We've done everything to make shooting easier, but somehow we can barely shoot half the old time yardages?

Not only that, but NFAA is facing somewhat of the same thing. People have been shooting out to 80 yards in field archery for many, many years. Even with 30 pound draw recurves! Now there is a movement within NFAA to eliminate all targets past 50 yards. Again, 'superior' equipment doesn't seem to be as proficient as an old target recurve.

Sure, I'm talking about target archery, but that gives a pretty impressive comparison of the skills and mindset of 20 years ago with today. Don't you think? I also think it shows that all the 'improvements' the manufacturers have made over the years haven't improved accuracy one whit. In fact, it's worse!

I'm not near as good as I used to be, but I'll set my old Hoyt up sights/fingers, heavy aluminums, and go head to head with anyone shooting an SQ2 or Mighty Mite. Perhaps even a HavocTec. 100 arrows, 90 meters. Loser buys the beer.

I like Heineken Dark.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>