RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I want to get the Pro Hostage too. Does the current one make much noise?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I've put the original through it's paces a while back. It's not a bad rest but I thought it paled compared to the whisker Biscuit. There are some problems with it that I think are "deal breakers" for me.

First, if the arrow is bumped (and it doesn't take much) it will fall through the bristles and bang against the housing. You will have to pull it back out and reset it. You're going to need to put on some mole skin (supplied) and I prefer my bows to be "mole skin free zones".:D

Second, if you shoot anythingmore than a 4deg. offset with your vanes or feathers they will hit the bristles. When I had mine I tried to get the vanes to clear and I couldn't. I was shooting some old helical vanes and when I rotated the nock so that the leading edge would clear, the trailering edge made contact. When I rotated so that the trailing edge of the vanes didn't hit, the leading edge would.

I noticed that my groups were considerably worse when the trailing edge made contact. When I rotated the arrow so that the leading edge hit, my groups were better but still not as good as whenI shot 4deg off set vanes through it.This is not like the W/B where the fletch contact is even going through the soft biscuit bristles. The Hostage has stiffer bristles like the black bottom bristles that you DON'T want your vane to go through on the W/B. They are also taperedsomewhat (look close at the "V" shape) and I think the tips of the "V" were catching the fletch and I believe knockingthe arrowoff course even if itwas ever so slightly.

The last thing I didn't care for was the construction. It's made of a polymer plastic that just doesn't seen to sturdy. I don't know if the new pro model is made from alum. or not but I hope it is.

Guys, this is by no means a new design, this rest has been out for some time.It used to be called theCatawba rest buteveryone seemed to think it was some kind of cheap W/B knockoff and nobody gave it the time of day......tilll BowTech bought out the company.

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad rest, it shotpretty good with 4deg vanes but Iended up giving it away(see below) on one of BigJ's late night give aways for the reasons listed above.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

That is the most thorough and best response I could have got. I really do appreciate it! Thank you!

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

[ul]CNC Machined 6061 Aluminum BigJ and thx for the review. I need one in my hands. If I slide an arrow accross and it makes noise, I am going with Golden Premier Rest and tong thongs:D[/ul]
[ul][/ul]

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I am tempting to try a Whisker Biscuit but not sure how much accuracy and noise I will give up.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

You will lose ZERO when it comes to accuracy with the W/B. It's more accurate than 99% of the shooters on this board (including me) will ever hope to be. If you do your job it will do it's.;)

As far as noise when you draw, yep it makes a slight sound andas I understand it, some arrows make more sound than others although I've yet to use an arrow I thought was loudby any stretch of the imagination in all the years of using a Whisker Biscuit. I've shot many many different arrows over the years. I've useddifferent types of aluminum and carbon alike. Fromcheap ones to expensive ones, coated ones, bare carbon...you nameit none were too loud to the point where I felt uncomfortable hunting with them.

In all the years I've hunted with itI have yet to spook a deer with the sound it makes. In fact if you pay close attention, your huntingclothes will probably make more spund (especially in cold weather) when you draw thanyour bow does.

Does it make a sound when you draw? yep, mine makes the slightest ofhsssssss when I draw.........very faint, but it's never been a worry in the least. You need to remember your ear is only a few inches away from the rest/sound. Step back a few feet and you won't even notice it.

Even with all of the "perceived" cons, IMO the Whisker Biscuit is still by far the best hunting rest on the market today and I'll stick with it till a better one comes along......the Hostage ain't it.;)

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

BigJ, did you see where the new Hostage Pro's bristles are adjustable to fix the issue where the arrow could fall off. It would make it exactly like the WB with openings for fletch clearing, that's win win isn't it?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

WB is a great rest....

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

They have already made it to EBay, unless it is a copy!

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

The original Hostage may have, the Hostage Pro wouldn't be.

Edit: I did a search, there are zero Hostage Pro's on Ebay, they are all the original Hostage.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

BigJ... that's a very in-depth and fair review of the Hostage.

But this thread is about the Hostage Pro -- a completely different animal. ;):D

All your concerns and reasons you disliked the plain old plastic Hostage have been addressed with the Pro: larger hoop size (to accomodate popular high-profile fletching such as Blazers. That will also allow for a harder offset or helical as well), adjustable ramped bristles and CNC machined out of 6061 aluminum.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Yeah, I know this thread is about the Hostage Pro and my review was about the original Hostage, that's why I said I "hoped" the Pro was made from Alum. I'm glad it is.

Rob, I do like the idea if being able to adjust the bristles but it does not address the fact that the arrow can fall through the bristles if bumped. Obviously you haven't tried one out yet because if you did you will notice very quickly that it doesn't take much to bump it through even if you have all three bristles adjusted tight around the arrow shaft which I don't believe I'd like anyway. With the Whisker Biscuit there should be plenty of room around the arrow, the only part that is touching the bristles should be the arrow on the bottom.

Now as far as vane clearance, I wasn't talking about clearance to the ring I'm talking about any arrow with more than a 4 deg. offset to the fletching, either the front edge will make contact or the trailing edge will. Again it will only take a few seconds to see this once you guys get them in your hands.

The bristles are cut into a"V" shape to kinda cradle the arrow shaft. There is not a lot of room between the bristles for the vanes to pass and this becomes evenlessthe more you offset your fletch.Now, the bigger the shaft the more offset you can use. but with the standard carbon shafts this will be a problem and you can forget about it with the thin shafts like the Axis ST's.

Guys, thisis VERY easy to prove.....ANYBODY with a helical fletch look at your arrow from straight behind the nock. You don't even need to have a hostage rest, just look at your fletchings. You will notice that there is NO ROOM for the bristles to slide on the shaft and NOT hit the vanes......In fact I'll go one better and post a picture of what I mean.





[align=center]
Straight Fletch ...Does Not Rotate in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
4 Deg Fletch......Rotates Slightly in Flight[/align]
[align=center]
Helical Fletch.....Rotates Dramatically in Flight[/align]

Now look at the arrows above, thetop arrow(straight fletch) has an unobstructed path for the bristles to slide on the arrow shaft. Notice that there is no room for error as the distance between the vanes is about 5mm (I just measured my Axis ST). In themiddle photo there is a 4deg offset, there is still a path but because of the offset the distance between the leading edge of the left vane (in the photo) the the trailing edge of the right vane is only about 3mm. This is the absolute bare minimum and depending on the size of your shafts even a 4deg may be too much as I believe the width of the bristles is wider than that. You're gonna get vane contact but it's not a lot. This is why my arrows still flew ok but again not as good as they did with the W/B

The bottom arrowhowever is a completely different story. There is NO WAY that arrow will slide down the rest without the vanes hitting the bristles, just look for yourself, I'm not making this up. The front edge of the left vane and the rear edge of the right vane are almost directly in line with each other.

The difference between the Hostage and the Whisker Biscuit is the hostage doesn't have all the other bristles the Whisker Biscuit does to stabilize the arrow. That's why the Biscuit works so well, all contact is even, with this rest I believe I was getting erratic arrow flight because there was no consistency with the vane contact. What was happening was the front edge of one vane would hit the bristles then as it moved off of the bristle the back half of the other vane would hit it!

Granted it wasn't like my arrows were flying all over the place but they sure weren't grouping well at all. Especially when I shot the helical fletch.

Hey I liked the idea enough to go out and buy one to test, and I was hoping it would perform at least as well as the W/B but for me it didn't. They can dress it up as much as they want but it still won't change the results until they can address the uneven and inconsistent vane contact. For those of you who don't like the Whisker Biscuit for that very reason (vane contact) you should be just cringing at the thought of this rest...but yet here are some of you singing it's praises when you slam theWhisker Biscuit FOR DOING THE SAMETHING only more consistently. If you don't likevanecontact don't get this rest becausethat's just what you will get!

I hope you guys will be honest with your reviews of this rest because I was. I have no ties to either the Whisker Biscuit nor the Hostage, I'm just an average bow hunter who tested two separate rests, that's all.

In my opinion the Whisker Biscuit out performs this rest hands down. The claim of no vane contact is pure bunk, unless you shoot a straight fletched arrow. So what exactly are you getting you ask? You will be getting what everyone was saying about this rest when it was called theCATAWBA.....and that is, a poor attempt to make a better Whisker Biscuit.

Only now it's got the backing of a big bow company and a new name....I have a sneaky feeling now it'sreviews will be somewhat kinder.:eek:

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

BigJ


Can you explain to us what happens to the hen vanes on a helical arrow as it passes thru the WB?

Nock an arrow with a WB and look down the shaft..... The leading end of one and the tail end of the other will both come in contact with the stiff black bristles and not pass thru with the same uniformity as they will contact those bristles at different moments of the power stroke.

[/align]

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I like hearing BigJ's opinion on all the Hostage/WB styles. It saves the hassle of starting another thread.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Ah, Big guy, I have the Hostage on my Marquis and yes, I have noticed this, this is why I'm excited about adjusting the bristles on the Hostage Pro to solve the issue. I won't speculate on the arrow following through the Hostage Pro when properly adjusted til I have one.

The Orginal Hostage is too big for my ACC's.

I think you can see it there: ;)

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I know you're asking about the pro but I think they'll be about the same for noise on the draw, the original and the pro that is. Probably comparible to the Whisker biscuit too as that was my experience with the original. What I found was that if you are shooting a smooth finished black arrow like the Easton Axis the noise on draw is hardly detectable even just inches away from it. Now if you are shooting a camo finished arrow like the Easton Axis Obsession arrow the noise on draw is definitily noticable and was unexceptable for me.

I'm now shooting a limbdriver and couldn't be happier. The way I have mine set up it's completely quiet on the draw and super quiet on the shot. I've never shot more consistent groups like I do now but that's probably just me. I know longer get the occasional flyer like I did with the whisker biscuit but I like to shoot full helical on blazers too.

I don't find the cord on the limbdriver to be an issue at all. I walk through thick stuff all the time and have never had an issue with it. The loop cord used on it is super tough and you're more likely to mess something else up on your bow before you would mess this thing up.

Hope this helps and good luck with whatever you choose.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

How does the NAP 360 compare to the Hostage or WB?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I see exactly what you are talking about buckeye and I agree you will have some of the vane on a helical fletch pass through the black bristles. However the rest of the arrow is still being supported by the other bristles and while the black bristles are stiffer they are not that different to where you get an erratic arrow flight. The Hostage has NOTHING else to support the arrow. Some times I got good flight and other times I didn't, it was sporadic, thus my problem with the rest.

Buckeye, what's your opinion on fletch contact?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I glued my blazers as far out as my bitz permits to go, topnotch is a far to the left and bottum as far to the right as possible, so you can say they're offset.
I noticed the same thing, my vanes hit the black bristles when they went through the WB. I took my arrows and let them drop through the WB which I mounted on the side of a table, I simply turned my nocks untill the arrows fell straight through without getting bumped by the black hairs in the WB.
When you look at the vanes they are parallel to the ends of the black bristles at the startand when the arrow starts turning the black hairs stay nicely inbetween the length of my vanes....
All you need to find out is how your offset spins, to the left or the right.....

Frank
But I too am tempted by the new hostage design, I might try one out as well.....

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Sorry Rob......my bad.

You have however noticedon the original Hostage, the arrow will fall through with pretty much little effort though no? I believe the Pro will address thiswith being able to adjust the bristles....but at what cost. I'm interested to see how the arrow will fly when the rest has to be clamped down around it to hold it secure. if it works I might even pick one up to put it through it's paces, I just don't see that happening. I think you will need to have some play in order to get good arrow flight, but then you will have the same issues with the arrow being bumped through the rest. Let me know, I'm interested.

Rob,how do you feel about fletch contact?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Fletch contact is obviously a bad thing but in the case of the WB, it's equal on all fletch so it does not affect arrow flight unlike say if one fletch catches a prong on a shoot through.

I would "assume" that with the Hostage Pro, one wouldn't clamp down on the arrow but leave room for a fluent passthrough like the WB. The WB doesn't clamp down on the arrow nor would I set a Hostage Pro to clamp down on an arrow.

I would also, "assume" that if you do have fletch contact depending on fletch and size of the shaft with the Hostage Pro, it would also be equal on all 3 fletch. Time will tell when the start shipping. I'm anxious to play with one. I'll be shooting Blazers with a hard offset. I know I don't get fletch contact with the original Hostage but again, it's a big hole for my Blazers.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Thanks Rob,

Yeah, I'm pretty anxious to see how the Pro model will work as well.

I guess you could tell what I was eluding to and thatis, if both rests are going to have fletch contact and I'm almost positive the Hostage Pro will as well with anything more than a 4deg fletch, then what is the advantage over a W/B. At least with the W/B you will get full containment with no chance of your arrow popping through. It's also proved to be very consistent as far as fletch contact is concerned, the jury is still out on the Hostage. I believe I was getting uneven fletch contact and that's what was causing my sporadic arrow flight.

I do think though that being able to adjust the Hostage Pro, one might be able to "tweak" it somewhat. I'll be looking forward to your (or anyone else's) report on how it works.

I haven't given up on this rest yet, I like the idea of it. I know the original Hostage rest is no way near the rest the Whisker Biscuit isbut perhaps the Pro will fair better.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Not exactly the point I was trying to make....

Go nock a helical arrow on your bowstring... Slowly pull the arrow thru the WB and let me know what the vanes do, especially the hen vanes....

My problem with shooting a helical fletch thru the wb is the fletching is commited to it's path as the leading edge of the vane dictates where it "cuts" thru the bristles at..... The back end of the fletching is in for a ruff ride.

IMO I would not shoota helical arrow thru a wb.... I have used a wb in the past as well, so I am not a hater... I am only saying that it has it's limitations.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Ah....I see now.I did what you asked and slowly pulled a helical fletched arrow through the biscuit. I can see where you're coming from and how the whole fletch takes the path that the front cut causing the rear of the fletch to kinda fold over.

However, the problem (as Isee it) is, when shot from your bow, the arrow doesn't move slowly through the biscuit, it's moving at a high rate of speedand the bristles are soft enough to where you actually have bristle displacementcaused by the vanes. I believe there was a slow motion video showing a Whisker Biscuit in action. It was made to show how much it wobbles after the shot. I don't want to get into all that was "set up" with that video to make the rest look bad I just want to bring to your attention what the bristlesdid when an arrowwas shot through it at fullspeed. It showsjust how the bristles will get displaced by the fletchings after they initially slice into it. They proved to be very flexible and it wasn't even the newer designed softer B-2 biscuit, it was the older all black one.

The length of the bristles are what give it it's flexibility to allow the vanes to push through them rather than slice through. Yet they will still support the arrow because it (the arrow) rests on the ends of many bristles (strength in numbers). At speed you won't get the same results as you do when you slowly pull an arrow through it. The leading edge of the vane doesn't "dictate" where the back edge goes, there's some bristle displacement that occurs.

Now the bristles on the Hostage rest I testedwere the exactopposite, they werevery short and stiff. They areno where nearas flexible as the W/B bristles. If a helical, or anything more than 4Deg vane were to start to "cut" through one of them (and they will) I seriously doubt they will be as forgiving as the W/B bristles. This, along with what Ifelt was inconsistent fletch contact, is what was giving me my poor results with that rest.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

I did see a kid shooting a Hostage a couple weeks ago and he set the arrow on top of the bristles and didn't make sure it was set down inside the rest,he shot a little high.:D


I could actually see this happening in the dark woods on a cold winter morning and when the moment of truth came,well,some one wouldn't be very happy.Like they dropped a water bottle or something.[8D]

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

are drop aways better than other styles? in theory? what about reality? how hard is it to set up/tune correctly to drop away in time? also with fast/light arrows? will it not drop away in time? and are the noisy? To me in theory they sound awesome, though mine current NAP quicktune works great, no problems ever, quiet. Heard of problems with drop away, though if they're set up right, are there still problems? noise? contact? more trouble than they're worth? Not broke? don't fix it?

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

Well is was a hot sweaty night so I have no idea what you are talking about.

Good info guys

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

For what it's worth, I just changed my rest from this rest to a drop away. The biggest complaint I have with the Catawba (and I assume it would be the same with the upgraded model) is that as the bottom brush begins to wear, and it will if you shoot alot, you have to compensate by lowering your sights. Once you replace this bottom brush, you have to again raise your sights to compensate for the new site and begin all over again. It's true, it does not damage your fletching and it really does not fall off of the brushes often enough to make it a deal breaker but the bottom brush seems to wear from arrow friction while the other two don't even touch your arrow, let alone wear. At first I thought this was a good thing, thinking as the bottom one wore, I could simply rotate it out with one of the sides. This works but as I said, you then have to readjust the sites again and start the process all over. I saw a new model out that looks like this rest but has some type of rubber pad or 'hard' rest on the bottom instead of a brush which looks like someone is trying to fix the problem. I have never used a WB for any extended time to see what brush wear does to the sighting but it's something to keep in mind when you are using these brush rests as opposed to a harder surfave.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

http://www.basspro.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10151&catalogId=10001&a mp;langId=-1&partNumber=62442&hvarTarget=search&c mCat=SearchResults

Here is a link to the newer rest I mentioned above, as sold by BP. It looks like a plastic ramp in leu of the bottom brush but otherwise looks similar to the Catawba. It also looks as though the side brushes are closer to the arrow. I don't know how difficult it might be to get replacement brushes for it though.

RE: Hostage Pro Rest
 

For what it's worth, I just changed my rest from this rest to a drop away. The biggest complaint I have with the Catawba (and I assume it would be the same with the upgraded model) is that as the bottom brush begins to wear, and it will if you shoot alot, you have to compensate by lowering your sights. Once you replace this bottom brush, you have to again raise your sights to compensate for the new site and begin all over again. It's true, it does not damage your fletching and it really does not fall off of the brushes often enough to make it a deal breaker but the bottom brush seems to wear from arrow friction while the other two don't even touch your arrow, let alone wear. At first I thought this was a good thing, thinking as the bottom one wore, I could simply rotate it out with one of the sides. This works but as I said, you then have to readjust the sites again and start the process all over. I saw a new model out that looks like this rest but has some type of rubber pad or 'hard' rest on the bottom instead of a brush which looks like someone is trying to fix the problem. I have never used a WB for any extended time to see what brush wear does to the sighting but it's something to keep in mind when you are using these brush rests as opposed to a harder surface.