I am old and weak
 

I feel that way, sometimes;)

I'm actually 6'1"/200#'s and in fair shape. I have to tell ya, though.....pulling my 82nd at even 62#'s is a LOT different than it was with my Allegiance at 65#'s. I have had MANY instances of the bow kind of giving me a "false release". I've got one dead arrow at the indoor range to prove it;).

So.....I'm ordering 50-60# limbs, today. With speed (I'm getting 330fps out of mine at SIXTY-TWO POUNDS)......comes some cost. I'm realizing that, now.

When I shot my Allegiance.....especially target shooting....I was able to hold it for a good while. This allowed for pin float and a "comfortable" release. Now....I find myself jumping the gun to keep from holding at full draw for extended periods. I hope to do away with this problem with the new limbs.

Is this change to lower #-age limbs going to do the trick? Maybe get me back to where (at least) I was with the Ally (ease of holding-wise)? I'm seriously thinking I'll be pushing 310fps or better with the new limbs on FIFTYTWO pounds. Incredible, huh? I'm gonna need new, heavier arrows.

So....question is.......is a 10# drop in DW gonna ease this thing up a LOT for me?

RE: I am old and weak
 

And for the record.....I'll change these back out to hunt. I'd like to shoot a 500gr arrow for my hunting purposes.....and I'll likely shoot it at 65#'s.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Pulling back a 80# bow doesn't make you tuff..same as tattoos and a Tapout sticker in your back window (which I have and have done). Use what makes you comfortable man!

RE: I am old and weak
 

Id think it would have too... wouldnt it? No way around it, even if the draw is stiff with speed mods. its still only 52lbs...

RE: I am old and weak
 

Old and weak? Sing it, brother! Just kidding. I will feel old and weak when I can no longer push the lever to get my specially modified (and camouflaged)wheelchair through the brush to the blind. :D I bet you will find this passes and you will be back to shooting higher poundage (if you want)once you get used to the new bow.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Cowboy up

Yep;)

RE: I am old and weak
 

Nope...Just maturing...

I've never shot over 64 pounds, a few years ago I pulled my back, dropped down to 58 pounds...Kept my shots under 25 yards, which is about max I can shoot in the deer woods in Sept/October anyway and still killed deer...Back when I had a Bear Whitetail, I started at 50 pounds, still worked...Before that, I shot a 45 pound Bear recurve...

I love a smooth bow...That's why I shoot a bow that's 15 years old or so...I just don't like most of todays bows...

To me, hunting is about the setup and the ambush...I set up to have close shots with a bow and with my flintlock...That's what keeps it challenging...That's why we bow hunt...I also hunt with a scoped .243, have killed deer out to 300 yards...In that situation it's really about shooting deer, not hunting deer...

Hunting is a hobby, keep is simple and it stays enjoyable...

RE: I am old and weak
 

Is that because of the aggressiveness of the cam? No valley at all, right?

I know the couple of Elite's I have shot felt like that.....Do NOT creep even a little bit, cause if you do, it's gone!

What I mean is, is it more the weight or the cam? You've been shooting 65 #'s, I'm just trying to understand why now 62 #'s is a problem....Not being critical in the least, just curious....

RE: I am old and weak
 

None taken, Don!...lol

It's just more "aggressive". I mean....it's REALLY agressive. When it falls intot he valley.....it's kinda violent just as it's rolling over.....even at 62#'s. For hunting???? No issues. But when I'm taking 45-60 shots in a practice session or shooting 3D and holding for a while.....yeah....I'm a bit intimidated. There....I said it.:D

I was REALLY comfortable with the Ally at 64-65#'s holding it shile target shooting. I just hope the new limbs (I JUST ordered a 50-60# set in black!) will give me the same feeling I had with the Ally, with the same ease of holding.

For hunting.....I'll switch back to the limbs I have on there, now.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Differences in feel between the new bows? Must be the valley and surely the letoff is the same(80%)? This is why I still prefer 65% or at least 70% letoff. I get a cleaner release. Maybe I can't hold it as long at full draw, but its just more solid for me at the lower letoff.

By the way Jeff, my next bow will have 50-60 lb. limbs too. In just over 3 months I turn 54 and pulling 65-70 lbs. just isn't as fun anymore..........plus being I am 6'0" tall and weigh 155 lbs. soaking wet doesn't help.

RE: I am old and weak
 

That's what I thought, Jeff. I've never shot one, so I was just trying to "feel it out" a little. I suspect that it builds slowly, then right at the breakover point it gets pretty stiff, and then, as soon as it breaks....BAM! Back wall.....No creep at all.....

With your 60# limbs, would you be able to get 62 out of them? I mean, a bow works most efficiently at the upper end of it's scale...and if you can get 62 or 3 out of them, would there be a need to change them back out?

RE: I am old and weak
 

Good question, Don. I might have a set available at a later date. I JUST ordered the new ones.....and I'll have to see how they do max'd out.

Good point....and I'm sure someone is gonna dry fire one of these babies down the line. I might have a set they can get at a savings!;)

RE: I am old and weak
 

Another bowhunter "Sees the light". Congrats. With age comes wisdom. Remember, you still are over the recommended kinetic energy needed to kill an Alaskan Brown bear. Considering that 99% of bowhunters in America will never kill anything bigger than a whitetail with their bow, makes one wonder, why all of the 70# hype? The difference you will notice with your new setup is that now the arrow sticks in the dirt 3" instead of 4" after it completely blows through the deer. Your bow will shoot quieter too.
Oh, another thing you will notice is that on cold days, a buck of a lifetime won't get buy you cause your muscles are froze.

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2157608&mpage=1&key=i+have+seen+ the+light

RE: I am old and weak
 

Gotta tell you ,though, Don.....I'm doing this PURELY for target purposes.

I still see advantages to (what could be the down-side.....assuming one isn't over-bowed?) a 70# setup in a hunting situation.

ONE shot.......ONE deer......I'd have no issues shooting my bow maxed out at 70#'s. Especially with the lincoln logs I like to shoot in a hunting scenario.

2 different scenarios......requiring 2 different trains of thought.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Nope I think you are just old and weak -J/k

I pulled back a 101st on Sunday- and I can see where holding it back for long periods of time can be an issue just based on the cam design

RE: I am old and weak
 

Oh I agree, Jeff. When you're talking about shooting 60 arrows at a time, the higher weight gets tough. I understand completely why you're doing it. You're absolutely right, 2 different disciplines, 2 trains of thought. I was just thinking if you could do what you wanted w/ the 60# limbs, it would save you the hassle of changing back and forth twice a year. And, you could recoup some of your cost of the new limbs by selling the old....that's all....

RE: I am old and weak
 

;)Exactly, Speed comes at a cost

RE: I am old and weak
 

For now,until you will completely "see the light." ;)I have no problem shooting a 70# bow either, just can't see the point of the extra noise and extra pounds.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Take off that pinky-ring and you’ll automatically be able to pull ten more (straight) pounds…

RE: I am old and weak
 

My wife bought me that, in Mexico.....and she likes it.;)

RE: I am old and weak
 

Wow..........

RE: I am old and weak
 

Dang, I was trying to be nice but you guys are letting him have it!

RE: I am old and weak
 

If anything, I'd leave the 50-60 limbs ON for hunting season. Nothing like being able to pull off a fluid draw at the moment of truth after sitting in a stand for hours on end.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Yea, and keep the 70# bow for target shooting and shoot super light noisy arrows for as flat as shooting as possible.

RE: I am old and weak
 

If I didn't have fps restrictions....I'd likley leave it where it is.

I'm trying to dumb my bow down.;)

Don.....you bought the corvair the year before Chevy introduced the corvette:D

RE: I am old and weak
 

The corvette was introduced in 1953; the corvair in 1960. Neither has anything to do with speed, quietness, and effectiveness in a hunting bow.;)

RE: I am old and weak
 

I think G-mans in it for the speed right now. Speed is great but it always shows up somewhere in the draw cycle. I would reccomend a having two bows. The one you have for hunting, and a target bow that is light balanced and super easy to draw and hold. JMveryHO.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Chris....you speak the truth....but I gotta admit (gulp).....I'm seeing the rror in my ways (for the use I want out of my bow). 45-60 shots in one night is NOT a good thing for a guy shooting a fast bow (and I don't care who ya are.....the bow I'm shooting is kinda harsh on the draw for that many shots).

What'll likely end up happening is......I'll put some lower poundage limbs on the thing and never look back. It'll STILL be smokin most every bow out there at 55#'s.

I would just rather enjoy myself no matter how many shots I take in a session.

Don you knew what I meant;)....and I have a Guardian, too. It's a great bow.....it's just "corvair-ish" in comparison to the 82nd.;)

I admit.....I should have ordered it in 50-60#'s. Lesson learned.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Here is a question, will reducing the draw weight help with the issue? As Mobow has said it sounds like a narrow valley issue. Even with less draw weight that valley isn't going to get any more forgiving. Sometimes with less draw weight there is more of a tendency to creep because you don't have to hold as "hard." I guess what I am wondering is whether it is a matter of fatigue causing the creeping or if it is just the short valley inheirent with such a fast bow?

RE: I am old and weak
 

You bring up an interesting concept. The other day, there was a post on this board where a member (??) had an 82nd Airborne shooting something like 329 fps at 62 lbs. and 29" draw length. Was that you GMMAT? Anyway, I'm shooting a 2005 Hoyt at 61 lbs. and 29" and getting about 260 fps with arrows just a tad over 400 grains total weight.

So I'm crunching some numbers here and it looks like I could shoot a48 lb. 82nd Airborne and still get 260 fps with the same arrow. But from what I gather from your post, the draw cycle is so much harsher on the Airborne that the wear/tear factor may be just as high?

RE: I am old and weak
 

Yep....that was me.

I'm changing my arrow and bow setup.....going to 52-56#'s and increasing arrow weight to try to get to around 285fps. I'll be honest.....if it doesn't get better at 52#'s......I won't be shooting this bow. I bought it to shoot targets and to hunt with.....but I won't kill myself in one to satisfy the other. That's just being honest.

I honestly expect it to be much better at the lower weight. I see no reason it won't......but again....I'm all novice when it comes to this stuff.

I can tell you that 62#'s draw is NOT 62#'s draw;). My Ally was a dream at 64#'s.

I don't have buyer's remorse. I'm just trying to find a happy median. With RJ's help....I think I have that on order. I KNEW I was going to have to dumb this thing down to shoot sanctioned events. I just wasn't aware it was going to be so tough (my mistake....not Bowtech's). They delivered an awesome product.

I sure hope it helps, Bry....and I KNOW that fatigue is a BIG factor. I've been shooting a LOT. I honestly haven't given my shoulders a rest in weeks......not even for one day.

I shot 45 arrows, last night....and I won't touch it again for a week. My new limbs are 2-3 weeks out. Should have new arrows, next week.

I'll give a full, honest report after I change these things.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Take care of yourselves, getting older does not mean getting better.
I shaved my beard off the other day, and now when ruttnutt calls me and I answer the phone, He Gobbles at me like a Turkey.It has something to do with my neck.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Unless you need to let down,good chance you will not be letting it down EASY.:D


You are starting to see why some of us stay away from high letoff and agressive speed bows.

I have said it a few times,for me to shoot a speed bow,I would have to lower the draw weight to the point that the speed advantage would be lost so I am better off shooting the "forgiving" model at the higher poundage.

RE: I am old and weak
 

I agree to an extent. For hunting???? NO ISSUES!!

60 shots in one night is a lot for me, though.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Jeff,I just edited and added something to my response,sorry,should have just added another post.

RE: I am old and weak
 

Jeff, you keep saying for hunting no issues, but what happens if you get drawn back on a deer and then the shot is no longer there? You wait and wait, but have to let down. What happens then? You're going to have to let down and that thing is going to jerk forward causing a lot of movement.

That is the very reason I switched to a bow with a smoother draw. So I could easily let down smoothly while hunting if need be.

I see what you are saying aboue 1 shot so no fatigue, but if you have to let down it could cost you an opportunity. Just some food for thought.

RE: I am old and weak
 

I find that interesting since my position is exactly opposite of that. Personally, I've found that dropping down a few pounds for hunting purposes works better for me. I'm willing to give up some FPS for smooth draw and hold. Any jerky or extra movement caused by the increased draw weight is a negative IMO...

A simple test I run on myself every year prior to hunting season to determine if I'm pulling too much weight goes like this. I'll sit in a chair with my bow as if I'm in a treestand situation. I then point the bow down at an angletoward the floor as if a deer is approaching my "stand". I then draw straight back as smoothly as possible without any extra movement (ie raising up the bow). Once there, I'll hold for a minute or so. If I can't pull straight back from that position in a fluid motion or have trouble holding, the bow weight gets dropped down.

I suggest you give this siimple test a try. You might be surprised at the results.

RE: I am old and weak
 

I shot a buck one morning @ 8:15....after I'd been in my stand since 4:00, that morning. I was shooting my Allegiance at 71#'s and it was 14 deg. outside.

I think I'd pass that test.;)

One shot? No problem. 60? I don't like it.

Letting down Bry? Good point. Something to think about, for sure.

RE: I am old and weak
 

ThanI'll just question your sanity for being in a treestand at four in the morning.:D

RE: I am old and weak
 

Long story, Jimi. I made a post about it in '06. Shot my best buck to date after going to the stand instead of BED!