RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I shot a doe that was facing almost directly away from me from an elevated stand. Shot beside the spine, in front of the hips and behind the ribs. The arrow stopped when the fletchings reached the hide. The doe walked about 25 – 30 yards and fell over dead. I held another arrow beside the doe and lined the two up. My broad head was somewhere right down in the heart and lungs when it stopped, and it had no exit wound. Entire length of arrow inside the chest cavity. I pulled the arrow back out in reverse and outlaw field dressed her because I’m pretty sure I hit some guts on the way through to the heart and lungs. I’d take that shot again, and I’d also take the shot to the chest and see how it worked out. I would be aiming at the vitals…

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

AMEN!!! Put a hole in them and they will bleed. :D

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

Gary I was gonna say that too.......from Joe Brook's book. Joe says a whitetail deer's vitals are the size gary mentions (used the same analogy). He states if he can get an arrow into those vitals.....he will shoot.

Now that may not fit into our/your/the next guy's perfect little dreamt up scenarios. But....it's real.

I happen to respect him for taking that stance.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

That is the biggest problem I have with the Drury bros. If it ain't broadside or quartering away, they will crucify the hunter.

Like Germ said the kill zone is as big as a Basketball. With the equiptment and heads we use these days an aarow does a lot of damage.

It looked like you poured blood out of a mike jug when I shot my deer that way.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I wouldn't take the shot, because I just don't think Im good enough to make, plain and simple. The same way I won't shoot past 25 yds even if he is broadside, just me, Im not that great of a shot. I do fine 25 and in, Im deadly. Get em out past that and I won't try em. Never have shot a deer past 25 yds, I just don't feel comfortable. Heck I passed up a deer that probably went 135-140 2 years ago, droptine buck, he was 21" wide. He was broadside at 40 yds licking the face of a six pnt and never knew I was there. I just couldn't bring myself to trying him. At least I will admit to it though!!

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I would have shot him...

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

That's the right way to look at it imo. there are a lot of shots I won't take either. It really depends on the situation and what is presented to me. If I were elevated, I would have not attempted a head on shot. Being on the ground and slightly below the deer made it an easier shot for me to take.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I don't think you can compare a broadside or quartering to shot to a straight on shot. It certainly isNOT a crap shoot between these shots. Broadside and quartering to have much more room for error and are more consistently lethal than straight on shots.

I say this because I don't think it is a good thing to put into the heads of new bowhunters, and most bowhunters in general,that straight on shots are the norm when it comes to shots to take.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I've shor two does that were both coming at me hand on. Both left tremendous blood ttrails and died then 50 yards. I believe that if you're confident in your ability take the shot. Like David said "If you stickem' they will bleed".

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

killer primate, have you ever lost an animal due to a marginal or bad shot choice? I mean no disrespect at ALL. Seriously, Im asking you because Im not sure if you have the same outlook on this as I do. You very well may be a much better shot at that distance than me, I don't know you. I have lost 5 deer in 20 yrs of bowhunting, and each one were marginal hits or bad shot choices. Sometimes they are the same. The last animal I lost I told myself then, that I will never take a bad shot again,forME a bad shot is a long one, or facing me, or straight down. All the deer I killed this year were good shots, some better than others, but none of them were bad choices. Respectfully I would like to know what you consider a bad shot? It really weighs heavily on me if I wound an animal and do not recover it, Im almost paranoid about it.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I can now seethat I am out of line in regard to this subject.

I apologize for coming across as holier than thou because I think bowhunters should restrain from attempting low percentage shots regarding killing and finding the deer in time to utilize the meat.

On reflection, I once accidentally shot too far forward on a deer and hit the deer in the shoulder with little penetration. I left the deer overnight and was amazed and pleasantly surprised to find the deer the next morning not 150 yards from where I shot. And to think that I had always been told this was a "no no" to shoot one there.

So the next time I am only presented that shot due to brush, etc. I think I'll take it.

What the hell, it worked once before and I wasn't even trying to hit there. If I put a hole in it, its bound to bleed. And if it doesn't work. well.....at least no one can accuse me of being part of the "shot police".:D

And with a target the size of a basketball in addition toall the arteries, I am starting to think that all of these threads that happen during hunting season on non recovered deer must be from people making these stories up just to get attention, cause it just isn't that difficult, right?

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

Actually, there are guides that show and advise this shot, but it has to be perfect. There is an opening in the chest about the size of a Cantoulope, that is a direct route to the heart and lungs. On a deer, this opening is more the size of a baseball, and IS not as easy to hit. I lost a great 130+ buck about 15 yrs. ago because I took this shot on him. Only thing that I had to go on, plus he was coming down a trail right AT me. We tracked him on "spec's" of blood for a long time before we lost the trail, arrow still inside him. My buddy found him probably half a mile from where I shot circled almost all the way around, with no blood anywhere around him, as if he stopped bleeding "out" but continued bleeding in. The shot on a whitetail IS a low probability shot, and IS something we SHOULD discourage other bowhunters from taking unless the situation IS PERFECT, such as short distance, head up to lick a "licking branch," but even then, I'd have to think really had about it.


Good Post, I agree.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I've heard that too about elk but it just makes me nervous! This is the way I am, I want everything to be as perect as it can be for myself! I've passed on some nice critters because I'm so picky. Each to his own.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

IMO worring about makeing a bad shot will cause more bad shots IMO. I mean how man "I hit right behind shoulder" stories have we heard?
There is so much more to the issues than just shop placement.

BH
KE
Angles

My setups are overkill for a reason

My setup now produces 72 Ft.lbs of KE
My new setup (Elite GTO) is going to be over 80 FT.LBS

Far more deer are lost to setups than shot selection IMO. HNI is the expection to the rule, all the guys I know here; know what they are shooting.

I know a guy who was shooting 47 ft.lbs with a rage two blade. Than complains about pentration [&:]

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I'm not really a bow hunter, but I do still have my old 65# Bear take-down recurve. I have not shot the bow in over 15 years but I can still draw it. I would take a head on shot if it was within my comfort range for that shot today. That range is 15 feet or less. (I have taken a walking buck at 20 feet broadside while I was wearing blaze orange.) I passed on a head on shot at a doe once at 20 feet. I waited for a broadside and lost the opportunity because a deer can turn around faster than I can pull the trigger.

If this hunter was a great shot, and he knew he would make it, more power to him. I have much more trouble, from an ethical stand point, with people who shoot under powered bows. I've seen too many videos of 25 yard shots where there is a slow, light, arrow arching to the deer and only penetrating six or eight inches. The ethical hunters punch through the ribs, no problem with heavier, faster arrows. These hunters usually are not hundered pound women or 90 pound children either.

I am planning on taking up the bow again but I also have a problem ethically with letting a deer go over night before recovery. The good video shots I have seen all kill the deer within a couple of minutes if not in just a few seconds. If I shoot towards evening the deer will have to be close or it will let it walk. If you do not recover the deer in time to make good meat, you failed. The only time I will wait is the time it takes to calm down and get down from the tree. Fifteen minutes or so.


Bob

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

i have heard to never take that shot. but this year my friend and i each shot eight pointers head on and killed them too. so i dont know. To each is own i guess.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

By all means; that is a fair question. And it also has some really good timing.

I’ve never, ever lost a deer with any weapon, and I’ve hunted for a lot of years. But with a bow, for only the last three.

I wish I could tell you some great stories about some really cool shots I’ve taken at running deer, but I can’t. I’ve never shot at a running deer, even with a shotgun. And my favorite way to hunt them is on the ground, sneaking into their beds with my shotgun. Truth is, all my shots have been pretty boring. Don’t get me wrong, I love hunting, and I’ve had my share of some really cool hunts, and I’ve had some kills that others may not want to see, but no “WOW, what a marksman” shots.

My saying that your question also has good timing… means that recently I decided to change it up a little and be a little more risky. I’ve always liked to view my hunting as kind of primal, or survivalish (I realize that isn’t a word). By that I mean, I don’t carry climbers, and use a bunch of store bought stuff like doe piss, scent killer, state of the art what’ya’ma’call’it, latest-greatest gizmos, food plots or bait (I have tried some of them, but don’t use them regularly). I like to think of hunting as “could I survive here if dropped off in the woods, here, with what I can carry. Can I find a nice beach tree to get in with no stand on a good trail and take a deer? Can I kill one from the ground with my bow?

Just as Germ said a few posts back, lost opportunities haunt me, and more so as of late. What if I would have… you fill in the blank, is a sucky question to ask yourself time and time again. This year was my greatest year of hunting ever as it applies to me. Hunting with my kids is always the best, but this year I faced more challenges than ever, and I failed. I was after a monster and I never got a shot off after four good sightings. One, possibly two of those sightings probably should have resulted in shots, but I waited for a better one. Why? Out of fear; fear of a bad shot. As they say; fear causes hesitation, and hesitation is the root cause of our failure. I’d taken some advice or pointers here (mainly from GregH) about getting out and finding better places to hunt. And I found one, with a great buck on a great farm. All the pieces were there, except my instinct. My training (for lack of a better term) had me questioning myself, but my heart knew what to do.

Had I practiced the real “primal/survivalish hunting that I thought I was, I’d have taken a shot. Not a bad shot, just a not so optimal angle shot. A starving man would have never passed up the shots I had, and I did. So it all feels pretend sort of, and I don’t like that, not anymore.

The one shot I mentioned in this thread was because of this new way of thinking. And instead of being really happy or excited about it, I felt as though I’d done something wrong. What did I do wrong? Nothing, besides do something that I’d heard not to do by some people that I’d never met. That doe walked away and fell over. Almost close enough for me to throw my bow at.

I may end up learning a lesson the hard way, but I’m a little ready to be true to myself and take on that responsibility.

I watched my arrow fly through a 3D bear target (dry rotted and worn out vitals) two bails of straw and stick into a fence board about 3”. I’m pretty sure that my arrow will be lethal if shot at the chest of a deer, as long as it is aimed well.

Before I would have waited, but now I think that was probably a good shot, in the chest.

Sorry so long, good luck,

KP

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

Well said Jeff I agree!

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

very very stupid shot. shows he is irresponsible and does not respect the game he goes after, like most african hunts

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

You see where we find ground to differ on is the way we view the animal. Honestly, some people just go to extremes to spit out their LOVE for the deer and the God Almighty necessity to make a quick, clean, ethical kill. OH, and they're the same people that say they HARVEST their deer. In one sentence it has to be a quick clean ethicalKILL and in the next thread... it has to be HARVEST to be PC. I try to kill every animal I draw on as fast as I can. I draw the bow because I want to KILL the critter. Knowing the anatomy of the beast, my skills and the power of my equipement I decide what shot I'll take and when I'll take it. Usually it all happens pretty quick. Sure I want a quick kill... it makes for short tracking jobs. But to hold myself back with some PC directive that I owe something to the animal is hypocritical. I'm trying to kill the damn thing. I don't care if I hurt his feelings. I'm trying to make him a BBQ. So, if there's a shot opportunity I'll probably take it. I don't have to consult the nimrods of the world about whether it's ethical or proper. The same people that would tell everyone what they should and shouldn't do as far as shot selection have probably hunted birds. How many times have the missed, or got feathers. Maybe they should stop bird hunting because you can't kill them all.

That's about right. Either that or they can't shoot or they're not much good at hunting. TO be good at hunting youhave to know a lot more than shooting. You also have to have the killer instinct and become the arrow. It's not rocket science, but some people just can't fly. Tracking ability is probably the number one cause of lost deer.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

David....

While I agree with just about everything you just wrote....I sometimes use harvest i.l.o. kill. But....that's for other PEOPLE....and not the animals. I thinkthe animalsget the picture;)

I also find I use the word less and less as I go.......

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

In the end, people will take shots every way possible. Im not going to tell anyone what shot they need to take, I just say that a bad shot is a bad shot, spade a spade. Davidmil is right, tracking jobs are where we lose most deer, with that said, however, track jobs would be less painful with a HIGH % shot. Killer primate, you have to do it your way, I understand that you have gone "outside the box" with your hunting. I don't know hoow long you have been hunting, but I can promise you this, there will come a time when you will say, "I wish I would have waited a little longer for a better shot." It is something every bowhunter has said by the time his/her career is done, you can bet on it, and if they say they haven't said it, they would be lying.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

To each his own, thats what 'ethics' are....For me, I took that shot once and will not do so again untill I become a MUCH better archer, so for the forseable future, it is an unethical shot. For me.:eek:

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

NO

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I have no disagreement with how you see the animal. I also hate all the political correctness and "harvesting" and what not as well, unless "political correctness" encompasses the fact that bowhunters should wait for a broadside or quartering away shot in order to dramatically increase the probability of a lethal shot and recoverable animal, in which recoverable is defined as finding the animal in time as to be to consume the carcass.

If that "belief" system makes me "politically correct", then I plead guilty as charged, and you can accuse me of "drinking the kool-aid'"

I agree 100% and that is the whole point I am attempting to make.

I have no question that the shot originally discussed in this thread is a high percent lethal shot, but I am not sure how recoverable it is as it would most likely result in 1 lung as compared to 2, and most likely will leave only one wound which may or may not coagulate and seal off fairly quickly. If in fact the deer is one lungedand the deer runs a LONG way with little to no blood, the tracking job will be difficult at best even for an experienced hunter.

A gut shot is a lethal shot and with an experienced hunter, he can probablly find most of them if he has enough time and the weather is cold enough to and to keep the meat from ruining. Is that shot okay as long as I am confident in my abilities to hit the "vitals" and in my tracking ability?

I have laughed at this whole notion that "as long as the hunter is confident in his abilities.....blah blah blah." Surely, you guys don't take shots while you are saying to yourself "I doubt this is going to hit the vitals, but I think I'll try anyway."


One other common idea that has been brought up in this thread that I agree with, and that at the end of the day, nobody has to answer to any "etchics police" or justify anything to anybody but themselves and the good lord above. Integrity is doing the right thing when nobody is watching.

Having said that, could I be tempted again someday to take a low percentage shot such as a frontal or quarterting towards? I hope the answer is no, but if a 350 class bull only presents that kind of shot to me on the last evening of elk season, who knows for sure, beacause after all I am just flesh and bones.

But I do know this. If I did, and whether or not I was successful in killing and recovering the animal, the fact would be that I took a low percentage, high risk shot that was irresponsible,careless, and yes unethical. No sense trying to "justify" my actions to myself or anyone else. It is what it is, as they say.

If a hunter has hunted any length of time at all, we have all had animals within our "comfort zone" but that never presented the right shot. That is what makes it challenging and fun. If one does not have the patience for that kind of scenario and be content to wait for another day rather than take a low percent shot, he probably needs to choose another weapon, but thats just my opinion.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

The first deer I ever killed was with a Hoyt recurve, PO cedar arrow and a Fred Bear broadhead. As I peeked over a ridge, the forky buck was facing me at ten yards. I aimed just where the neck met the chest. The buck jumped when hit. The arrow was in 3 pieces and the entry hole was the size of a fifty cent piece. The deer ran 15 yards and piled up. He was gushing blood from his chest as he went. I kept that 6 inch section of arrow with broadhead an mounted it on my wall.

If I had the same chance again at 10 yards with my Liberty 65 pound bow, carbon arrow and Montec head would I shoot? I have to be honest and say yes I would. I have confidence in my ability to hit my target in a vital spot and with equipement that would humanely put the deer down. At ranges longer than about 15 yards I would not shoot.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I would not ever take that shot because I know my ability and my equipment. I try not to pass judgement on others, but I do not see a need for that type of shot.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

No way, to risky, But I guess it's do-able.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I'll tend to disagree. I've killed quite a few deer (somewhere near 30 I'd guess), and lost a 3. The deer I've killed, I've found within 18-220yds from the shot, one gut shot, one bad hit, femoral artery severed (NOT BAD HIT, my fault, LUCKY OUTCOME), and a bunch of heart lung shots. Those that I've lost I've tracked for a minimum of 350-400 yds. before the blood trail all but disappeared. I've tracked acouple ofanimals (none of my own)literally for over a mile, and never did find them, and this was after a few hour wait, not taking up the trail immediately. I think BAR NONE, poor shot placement w/ a gun or a bow would ABSOLUTELY be the NUMBER 1 reason for lost animals.

RE: Bad shot or not???
 

I agree with you 100%. With good shot placement typically your tracking will be at most 100-150 yards. It is when you take questionable shots that leads to long and difficult tracking and this leads to lost deer. And a straight on shot is a questionable shot.