RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Plus....there's one bow company (ahemmm)....that must spend $300/bow on advertising!;)

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

You guys crack me up.

TFOX - if hoyt sent you a flyer that said "Hoyt Bows will now be built by enchanted leprechauns using only parts that have been bathed in holy water and ordained by the Lord God himself," you'd be refinancing the mortgage and putting $22,000 down on whatever magic bow they built. You'retotally brainwashed by the major marketing,puffing andsales pitches. I hate to burst your bubble - but 6061-T6 aluminum sells for a couple dollars a pound - they have the CNC machines on site - so they cut it however they wantit cut - minimal costs. A set of strings costs the manufacturer maybe $25. A couple aftermarket parts (axles, bushings, grip plates) might run another $25. The raw materials for a set of limbs costs Barnsdale about $9 per set. There you have it: A complete bow, assembled for barely $100. I couldn't imagine Hoyt's costs being much more - although I'm sure they're probably 3-4-5x higher than everyone else, just because everything they do is better. LMAO And the leprechauns aren't cheap.

Hell, if you buy a matthews, you're getting a $100 bow, with $250 in marketing costs built-in. That's another thing that really rubs me...

Scott- you're seeing the wrong lawyers bro. Most of them provide a free consultation, but when they start drafting and filing things - that's where you run into the $$. You've gotta bargain shop, just like anything else. That reminds me - here in about a month or so, we'll get an Ohio shed hunt together. Call or PM me and we'll line upthe Dtails.

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Fran:

1. How much were those CNC machines?
2. How much did it cost to train the technician who runs it?
3. How much did it cost to FIND the technician to run it....and the guy who trained him?
4. How much does it cost to PAY the said employees to build said bow?
5. How about their fringes (healthcare; benefits; taxes; etc..., etc..., etc...
6. How much for the building they're in?
7. Taxes on the property?
8. Operating costs for the facility?

Heck I could go on.......but like Mr. Melon said in 'Back to School'.....you're living in fantasyland.

There's more to a bow than the raw material costs. MUCH, MUCH more (and this is true for ANY "product" on the public market)

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Amen Jeff, I was just getting ready to type up pretty much the same thing but I was just gonna forget about it cause I learned their is no way of winning when dealing with Fran :D

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Fran and I are friends. Nothing against Fran at all.....and I agree we pay a premium to shoot what we do.

I just want to show the WHOLE picture....to be fair.

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

OK Jeff... I'll play:

1. How many jobs does one CNC machine eliminate?
2. How many outsourcing requirements does a whole fleet of CNC machines eliminate?
3. What used to be "new," "expensive" technology... isnow "old" and "cheap."
4. The costs of trained technicians from technical schools keeps costs low and makes replacement easy. Running CNC machines isn't rocket science. It's just not.
5. How much does it cost to PAY the said employees to build said bow? Not much, now that they've taken all the human work out of it by automating the process. Payroll has probably stayed the same, despite VOLUME increasing dramatically. The steel mill down the road used to employ 3000 people, but now their payroll is down to 500, and their output is higher than ever. Chew on that.
6. How about their fringes (healthcare; benefits; taxes; etc..., etc..., etc...) - LESS employees = A lot Less Fringe bene's. That's the American model. Automate, eliminate jobs, save $$$.
7. How much for the building they're in? Steel buildings really aren't incredibly expensive - and honestly - you could build a bow in a big garage. We're not talking about building Cadillacs or Boeing aircraft here... Just putting together a 4-pound hunk of aluminum.
8. Taxes on the property?I can't speak for other areas, but here, property taxes never change, unless youxfer title or get reassessed...and we reassess values about once every50 years.Most businesses (around here)are moving into tax-free economic growth zones, to beat down their costs. As more businesses jump ship and leave, the costs of doing business domestically continue to get lower and lower - as the incentives continue to add.
9. Operating costs for the facility? Probably not much different than 10 years ago.Sewage, electric, H20- really haven't fluctuated more than the base inflation rate.
10. How much can a manufacturer save by using (even only a few) cheap, imported parts built overseas? Axles, bolts, bushings, grips, etc...

The U.S. Inflation rate is about 3% per year. Sorry, but that doesn't translate into prices doubling every 10 years.

I guess we all agree to disagree... You guys think the prices are great, I don't. I don't even think they're close to being fair.

All I'm saying is - there's an $800 pricetag on some of these things . . . and I wholeheartedly believe that the consumer isn't getting $800 worth of equipment. I feel like there are someawfully shady tactics being employed to keep the prices set at that level - and it's grossly unfair to the consumer.

Again, I don't expect my viewpoint to be popular here, because almost everyone responding on this thread either has some kind of vested interest, or has a friend who does... But it still doesn't change the truth.

Deep down, I know you guys all can see that I'm not just pulling this out of thin air - there's some creed to this whole discussion. Some of you want to argue, just based on WHO is saying it, but not WHAT I'm saying. Or you're offended b/c I'm casting "your" company in a bad light... I'm just saying what I think needs to be said, and what I KNOW you'll never read in a magazine or see on the Outdoor Channel.

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Hey Fran,have you ever bought a single piece of billet aluminum or machined it.I have and I am a tool maker by trade,I know a thing or 2 about that you are making yourself look like a complete idiot explaining.I do this for a living,don't tell me what you think is going on because I KNOW.;)

Hell,I run a cnc machine just about every day,not like the ones they use,they use high speed machines.

A tech riser has much more machine time than any other bow on the market right now.The billet is TWICE as big as well,meaning twice the cost.


For the record,I hunt with an 04 model,I don't get into all the marketing crap that you seem to.I did own an 06 competetion bow but sold it when I got out of competition(best bow I ever owned).I will be in the market soon and Hoyt is definately on my list but I am not restricted to them,the shop sells other bows too.Both Mathews and Bowtech;).

I am a national shooting staff member through a local shop because of my knowledge and ability to represent the shop.


I will agree that bows are overpriced but what isn't.Blaming Hoyt ischildish at best.


You remind me of an old saying,if you can't dazzle em with brilliance,baffle em bs.Not really your fault though,that is just the lawyer coming out out in you.:D

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Well, Foxy, I happen to be really good friends with a guy who owns/operates a fairly good-sized machine shop, withsomenew millingmachines- and just like any other job - a CNC machinist is not irreplaceable. And running the machines...most definitely not rocket science.

I know that comes as a blow to you... seeing ashow you know everything, and all... LMAO (remember - you took the first shot at MY profession).

A few dollars-a-pound for 6061 aluminum billet. That's a fact. Built on a machine that a high-schooler could operate, once the data is input.

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

This thread has gotten a wee bit off topic hasn't it :D. A good "debate" though.

RE: Elite GTO, should NOT be overlooked...
 

Its all about supply and demand....if you want the newer technology in Bows your going to have to pay for it or find a more reasonable priced Bow to hunt with.Some of us can't afford to pay the high prices of the newer bows but do just as well out hunting with what we can afford.It not always the Equipment that makes the Hunter but the Hunter behind the equipment! ;)