Drop away rests may not be so great
02-03-2003 | 12:10 PM
#1
Thread Starter
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 343
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From: Iowa
Drop away rests may not be so great
Very interested to hear any comments about this:
Below is a compelling argument against drop away rests I received from an experienced expert I questioned about whether drop away rests are superior to conventional rests. I think it's very informative and like any opinion open for debate.....
"In my personal opinion, I would say no. In fact, I believe that drop-away rests are generally easier to market and sell than they are to setup and actually shoot. While a few drop-away designs seem to perform well, we usually find them to be more problematic for tuning and I think they're less reliable regarding accuracy. Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure others would argue to the death the opposite way. But the guys that work in our pro-shop always seem to blurp-out a little disapproving grunt when they begin a bow system that includes a drop-away rest. They've done this enough to know the drop-aways are always more of a pain in the neck and the bows never tune-out as well. So I guess in theory, the drop-aways should be far superior, but in practice they're something quite different.
I believe that the arrow NEEDS some support from the rest as it gains velocity and establishes it's trajectory. Jerking that support away too early adds instability to the flight. For a little perspective, think of it this way. You ever play pool? You know, billiards? Imagine this. Your left hand supporting the tip of the pool-cue is like your arrow rest, and your right hand back on the end of the stick provides the forward power - like the bow's string does for the arrow. With me? Your left hand holds and stabilizes the movement of the pool-cue throughout your powerstroke, right? Now imagine that just as you pull the pool-cue back and then begin your forward stroke....you suddenly release your grip in your left hand. Would the pool-cue continue on in the intended path? Would it be as stable? Would your shot be as accurate? I say no.
In my opinion, you'll be much more successful with a good quality prong-style rest (Golden Key Premier, NAP Quiktune 3000, Rover Hunter, etc.). And any reliable archery shop should be able to setup a standard prong-style rest so that fletching contact isn't an issue. So in practice......outside of the added 1-3 fps the drop-aways will give you in arrow velocity (due to less friction).....there's really no benefit to using them. I think they're more a neat doo-dad than anything else. For most applications, you'll do better sticking with the convention of the prong rest."
Below is a compelling argument against drop away rests I received from an experienced expert I questioned about whether drop away rests are superior to conventional rests. I think it's very informative and like any opinion open for debate.....
"In my personal opinion, I would say no. In fact, I believe that drop-away rests are generally easier to market and sell than they are to setup and actually shoot. While a few drop-away designs seem to perform well, we usually find them to be more problematic for tuning and I think they're less reliable regarding accuracy. Again, this is my opinion. I'm sure others would argue to the death the opposite way. But the guys that work in our pro-shop always seem to blurp-out a little disapproving grunt when they begin a bow system that includes a drop-away rest. They've done this enough to know the drop-aways are always more of a pain in the neck and the bows never tune-out as well. So I guess in theory, the drop-aways should be far superior, but in practice they're something quite different.
I believe that the arrow NEEDS some support from the rest as it gains velocity and establishes it's trajectory. Jerking that support away too early adds instability to the flight. For a little perspective, think of it this way. You ever play pool? You know, billiards? Imagine this. Your left hand supporting the tip of the pool-cue is like your arrow rest, and your right hand back on the end of the stick provides the forward power - like the bow's string does for the arrow. With me? Your left hand holds and stabilizes the movement of the pool-cue throughout your powerstroke, right? Now imagine that just as you pull the pool-cue back and then begin your forward stroke....you suddenly release your grip in your left hand. Would the pool-cue continue on in the intended path? Would it be as stable? Would your shot be as accurate? I say no.
In my opinion, you'll be much more successful with a good quality prong-style rest (Golden Key Premier, NAP Quiktune 3000, Rover Hunter, etc.). And any reliable archery shop should be able to setup a standard prong-style rest so that fletching contact isn't an issue. So in practice......outside of the added 1-3 fps the drop-aways will give you in arrow velocity (due to less friction).....there's really no benefit to using them. I think they're more a neat doo-dad than anything else. For most applications, you'll do better sticking with the convention of the prong rest."
02-03-2003 | 12:57 PM
#3
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 760
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From: Jamestown SC USA
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
As it's been explained to me. The two main advantages to a drop away are that the effects of bow torque are reduced and the fletching contact is totally eliminated.
With a prong style rest, if you torque the bow handle, the bow will tend to jump to one side or the other upon firing depending on which way the torque is applied. If the back end of the arrow has just left the string and is still in contact with the prongs, the sideways movement of the bow and thus the prongs, will push the back end of the arrow one way or the other causing an errant shot. Since the drop aways are no longer in contact with the arrow after it leaves the string, the effects of the bow torque are reduced. There will still be some error because of bad form, but it will be lessened.
The fact that you can put a really hard helical on the arrows while using a drop away means that the arrow will stabilize more quickly, so even on a shot with bad form, you will hit closer to the mark than if you're using a prong style rest. Helical fletchings are not necessary, but there should be no argument that they are more forgiving. I have always shot straight feathers because it was such a pain to tune helical fletching with a prong style rest. Now that fletching contact has been eliminated, I will be using helical fletchings with a drop away from now on.
They are not the cure-all for all archery problems, but I do think they are an improvement in rest design.
With a prong style rest, if you torque the bow handle, the bow will tend to jump to one side or the other upon firing depending on which way the torque is applied. If the back end of the arrow has just left the string and is still in contact with the prongs, the sideways movement of the bow and thus the prongs, will push the back end of the arrow one way or the other causing an errant shot. Since the drop aways are no longer in contact with the arrow after it leaves the string, the effects of the bow torque are reduced. There will still be some error because of bad form, but it will be lessened.
The fact that you can put a really hard helical on the arrows while using a drop away means that the arrow will stabilize more quickly, so even on a shot with bad form, you will hit closer to the mark than if you're using a prong style rest. Helical fletchings are not necessary, but there should be no argument that they are more forgiving. I have always shot straight feathers because it was such a pain to tune helical fletching with a prong style rest. Now that fletching contact has been eliminated, I will be using helical fletchings with a drop away from now on.
They are not the cure-all for all archery problems, but I do think they are an improvement in rest design.
02-03-2003 | 03:15 PM
#4
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 858
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From: Detroit
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
Unfettered malarkey.<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>
A. While playing pool, if my right hand hustled that cue along at 327fps...I'd be movin' my left hand outta the way. Sounds funny but, No REALLY!
B. If a bow with a drop away never tunes out as well as with Tm hunter, I guess I'd like a definition of tuning. Seems like there should be an almost beautifull symetry and synchronicity in a properly tuned bow...Rattling down a couple of metal rods on the way out doesn't fit in to me.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
C. A little more realistic analogy. Let's say you have two trains, both going 125mph. One on a regular track and the other floating on air, which one's more efficient? Which one would have the better ride?Which one would be the LEAST likely of spilling my Drambuie? Which one would penetrate...you get the idea.
I'm really not knocking the TM style rests if that's what you choose to use. Use what works for you and if it aint' broken don't fix it.But...I assure you they (some designs of course...some suck)are no more difficult to tune. I'd say, depending on the model, easier even. You will probably spend a little more time putting it on.Sure.
But if your like me...I can have My cake and eat it too!
5inch hellical feather behind a 2" 125 grain cut on contact broadhead @ 285FPS. Are you kidding me? Any TM style I've ever seen would be shooting corkscrews downrange! But the MZE spits 'em like a lazer.
"Do what you've always done; get what you always got" mentality versus "Tradition" that's all. There aint' no good guy; no bad guy<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Trushot }}------>
A. While playing pool, if my right hand hustled that cue along at 327fps...I'd be movin' my left hand outta the way. Sounds funny but, No REALLY!
B. If a bow with a drop away never tunes out as well as with Tm hunter, I guess I'd like a definition of tuning. Seems like there should be an almost beautifull symetry and synchronicity in a properly tuned bow...Rattling down a couple of metal rods on the way out doesn't fit in to me.<img src=icon_smile_tongue.gif border=0 align=middle>
C. A little more realistic analogy. Let's say you have two trains, both going 125mph. One on a regular track and the other floating on air, which one's more efficient? Which one would have the better ride?Which one would be the LEAST likely of spilling my Drambuie? Which one would penetrate...you get the idea.
I'm really not knocking the TM style rests if that's what you choose to use. Use what works for you and if it aint' broken don't fix it.But...I assure you they (some designs of course...some suck)are no more difficult to tune. I'd say, depending on the model, easier even. You will probably spend a little more time putting it on.Sure.
But if your like me...I can have My cake and eat it too!
5inch hellical feather behind a 2" 125 grain cut on contact broadhead @ 285FPS. Are you kidding me? Any TM style I've ever seen would be shooting corkscrews downrange! But the MZE spits 'em like a lazer.
"Do what you've always done; get what you always got" mentality versus "Tradition" that's all. There aint' no good guy; no bad guy<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>
Trushot }}------>
02-03-2003 | 04:40 PM
#5
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,062
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From: CWD Central, WI.
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> experienced expert<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Self proclaimed?
Self proclaimed?
02-03-2003 | 04:42 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 301
Likes: 0
From: jackson new jersey
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
I don't really care what any "pro" has to say about setting up a drop away. I set up my MZE, I'm no pro, but I can tell you I have never shot as well as I am shooting with this rest. I haven't had any problems. Every arrow I shoot comes out straight. I haven't had any broadead give me trouble flying. As long as Muzzy keeps making it, it will be on my bow. Just curious, who declares a pro a pro?
02-03-2003 | 05:38 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,903
Likes: 0
From: Wisconsin
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
In archery , my arrow leaves the string (and bow). In pool , the stick doesn't leave my hand! Big difference! I dont see a very good analogy between archery and billiards.
I would also question the authors "experienced expert" title when it comes to his problems setting up and tuning drop aways.
>>>---Doug--->
I would also question the authors "experienced expert" title when it comes to his problems setting up and tuning drop aways.
>>>---Doug--->
02-03-2003 | 07:01 PM
#9
Dominant Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,199
Likes: 1
From: Blossvale, New York
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Unfettered malarkey. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Self proclaimed? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Those two got it about right.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Sounds more like the PRO Shop people need some classes on setting them up.
<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Self proclaimed? <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
Those two got it about right.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> Sounds more like the PRO Shop people need some classes on setting them up.
02-03-2003 | 07:22 PM
#10
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,457
Likes: 0
From: East Yapank NY USA
RE: Drop away rests may not be so great
They don't like them because they are LAZY and do not want to take the extra time to set them up.
I will bet the same shop thinks the No-peep is useless also, Why? because it takes time to set up
I will bet the same shop thinks the No-peep is useless also, Why? because it takes time to set up