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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
The following is from a wildlife biologist friend of mine:
"From a biology viewpoint, maturity in a deer is sexual maturity. Thus, half of our doe fawns are mature at 6 months. I really don’t think any button bucks breed, so their maturity most likely occurs at 1 ½ years old. As hunters, we’re more interested in when they reach their peak body weight and antler growth. This is not a science question. I think it’s generally believed that deer have their best antlers somewhere in the 3.5 to 5.5 year old range. We just arbitrarily say they are mature at that age." That pretty much sums it up for me. We are arguing when they are their "biggest" not when they are actually mature. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
I think you guys are bickering oversemantics - the age of "maturity" is a fuzzy line, one which even the mostreasonable, competentbiologists could disagree or dispute.
Approach this from another angle: At what age does a human reach "maturity." Is "maturity" the age of reproductive capability? Is it a mental status? Is it the age of top physical condition? Can it vary between people? The answer is: There is no right answer. We can flesh out those areas where almost everyone is in agreement, but once you go down the timeline, things become increasingly muddled. Is a button buck mature? No. What about a yearling? If we're basing it on reproductive capacity, then yes, but I'd surmise that most of youwould say no. 2.5? Things start to get muddy... 3.5? Maybe. 4.5? More than likely. 5.5+? Almost everyone would agree that by this time, the animal has matured. Look at our own medical profession. Two highly-esteemed, competent MD's can look at an MRI film and arrive at two conflicting opinions regarding the same set of data. One guy sees an asymptomatic bulge. The other guy sees an operable herniation. I think that's where we're at with this "maturity" discussion. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: huntingson The following is from a wildlife biologist friend of mine: "From a biology viewpoint, maturity in a deer is sexual maturity. Thus, half of our doe fawns are mature at 6 months. I really don’t think any button bucks breed, so their maturity most likely occurs at 1 ½ years old. As hunters, we’re more interested in when they reach their peak body weight and antler growth. This is not a science question. I think it’s generally believed that deer have their best antlers somewhere in the 3.5 to 5.5 year old range. We just arbitrarily say they are mature at that age." That pretty much sums it up for me. We are arguing when they are their "biggest" not when they are actually mature. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Does it really matter? If a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 year old deer is mature to you, then take him. I believe what some of the hunters are meaning when they say in my area a 3 1/2 yr. old is mature, is if they don't take that deer, they will probably never see him again. Most hunters don't have enough land, if any, to grow and manage trophy bucks. A 3 1/2 yr. old buck is a mature enough deer to take for most hunters. I'll take a nice 2 1/2 yr. old if given the chance. I own land, but not enough to be confident that a 2 1/2 or 3 1/2 yr. oldbuck will remain there. They are going to travel and I guarantee most will be shot by another hunter. It might as well be me taking that nice 2 or 3 1/2 year old buck rather than someone else. Now I'm not saying I will take every 2 1/2 yr. old buck that walks by, but if he has a nice rack, then I probably will. I supposeif you are a trophy guru, then a 3 1/2 yr. old buck is not mature enough for you, and that's perfectly fine,but for most of us hunters, a 3 1/2 yr. old will do just fine. Is a 3 1/2 yr. old buck mature to me? I'll just say if he walks by me, there's a real good chance he won't make it to 4 1/2.
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
If you killed a 3.5 yr old buck......would you say you've killed a "mature" buck? That's it.. I'm out. This thread is now hurting my head. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Believe it or not Duke..I agree with ya..But not in absolute's! I just have issue when someone claims to have the answer to trump all answers.. You simply don't!
And as a caveat..I'm one who could care less..I don't hang birth certificates on my walls. [:-] |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels If you killed a 3.5 yr old buck......would you say you've killed a "mature" buck? That's it.. I'm out. This thread is now hurting my head.  :D:eek: |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: PreacherTony I agree with Duke! ...... Can I get the Rage deal Germ got now? :D:eek:
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Hey Duke, thanks for citing sources......I'll change my answer from 4.5 to 5.5 yrs old because "I think" the rack is bigger "in my woods" at that age. ;)
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
If a deer is 4 1/2, how old is that in human years?? [:-]
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: GregH If a deer is 4 1/2, how old is that in human years?? [:-] |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: GregH If a deer is 4 1/2, how old is that in human years?? [:-] So a deer that is4 1/2 is just a toddler then.......... just what I thought!;) |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: GregH ORIGINAL: bawanajim ORIGINAL: GregH If a deer is 4 1/2, how old is that in human years?? [:-] So a deer that is4 1/2 is just a toddler then.......... just what I thought!;) |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
I wish they's open the season 4 months earlier for me....... I wouldn't even have to scout.[8D]
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
DAMMIT.. I was done with this thread.. and all ya'll had to pull me back in..
If it's sources you want.. go get them. Try google.. read a book.. whatever.. I already know the answer.. you're seeking it.. so go find it. Often I have went to cite someone from a book on this site only to have everyone NOT listen anyway's. If you want sources.. seek them yourselves. I no longer search for them.. so everyone can draw there own decision anyway. And no.. I'm not the end all be all in this thread or any other.. I am simply stating the works of some of the great biologists who exist today. What I find funny is everyone's take on mature buck's and there relationship to there antler's. THAT'S FUNNY.. and Huntingson nailed it right on the head. Yes.. a 4.5 will more than likely have a bigger rack and body than a 3.5 yr. old. You are correct. But the question was "is a 3.5 yr. old mature".. the answer is YES.. IT IS. Am I getting through.. are we understanding.. I'm only answering the proposed question based on noted biologist's.. that's it. (Incidently.. this entire post is said with quiet humor.. not anger.. I am merely making fun of everyone who gets mad at others and takes themselves way to seriously)[8D] |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
IF we ask the question with out the P.C. terms it will make more sense;
Does a 3.5 year old buck have a nice enough rack to shoot? As far as science goes,sexually viable is adult. Most bucks will be viable the next year, does even earlier. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Now.. look what happened.. I spilled my cereal.. all over the floor...[:@]
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Settle down Duke, it'll be okay.
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Settle down Duke, it'll be okay. In fact.. I'm usually quite sarcastic. But you'll never know. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels DAMMIT.. I was done with this thread.. and all ya'll had to pull me back in.. If it's sources you want.. go get them. Try google.. read a book.. whatever.. I already know the answer.. you're seeking it.. so go find it. Often I have went to cite someone from a book on this site only to have everyone NOT listen anyway's. If you want sources.. seek them yourselves. I no longer search for them.. so everyone can draw there own decision anyway. And no.. I'm not the end all be all in this thread or any other.. I am simply stating the works of some of the great biologists who exist today. What I find funny is everyone's take on mature buck's and there relationship to there antler's. THAT'S FUNNY.. and Huntingson nailed it right on the head. Yes.. a 4.5 will more than likely have a bigger rack and body than a 3.5 yr. old. You are correct. But the question was "is a 3.5 yr. old mature".. the answer is YES.. IT IS. Am I getting through.. are we understanding.. I'm only answering the proposed question based on noted biologist's.. that's it. WOOOOOOOO!!! Easy Duke!!! I was just playin with ya.....kinda. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
LMAO, CREAM of wheat? :D:D:D:D:D:D
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels Now.. look what happened.. I spilled my cereal.. all over the floor...[:@] |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
TRIX DAMMIT........TRIX...
EVERYWHERE!  |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
The most notable biologists in the world must not be the same as the ones in Duke's. At any rate, deer get better at surviving every year, or they dont. I have not heard of a senile buck.[8D]
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels DAMMIT.. I was done with this thread.. and all ya'll had to pull me back in.. If it's sources you want.. go get them. Try google.. read a book.. whatever.. I already know the answer.. you're seeking it.. so go find it. Often I have went to cite someone from a book on this site only to have everyone NOT listen anyway's. If you want sources.. seek them yourselves. I no longer search for them.. so everyone can draw there own decision anyway. And no.. I'm not the end all be all in this thread or any other.. I am simply stating the works of some of the great biologists who exist today. What I find funny is everyone's take on mature buck's and there relationship to there antler's. THAT'S FUNNY.. and Huntingson nailed it right on the head. Yes.. a 4.5 will more than likely have a bigger rack and body than a 3.5 yr. old. You are correct. But the question was "is a 3.5 yr. old mature".. the answer is YES.. IT IS. Am I getting through.. are we understanding.. I'm only answering the proposed question based on noted biologist's.. that's it. (Incidently.. this entire post is said with quiet humor.. not anger.. I am merely making fun of everyone who gets mad at others and takes themselves way to seriously)[8D] |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Absolutely Germ.. In fact I have killed a few..
They must have ADD to fall to the likes of me..:D |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
The most notable biologists in the world must not be the same as the ones in Duke's |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
If you killed a 3.5 yr old buck......would you say you've killed a "mature" buck? Then when someone asked how old he is I'd say I don't know really don't care. It was a great hunt and I decided he was getting an arrow in him. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels The most notable biologists in the world must not be the same as the ones in Duke's |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: dukemichaels The most notable biologists in the world must not be the same as the ones in Duke's |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
in Duke's pants?
Now I see where Germ got his answer... |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
It will be Ok Duke.... It will be OK!
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
To be serious for one post
We have entered the "age porn" era of hunting. Racks, pressured land, quanity are no longer key indicators of one's hunting ablilties. Does not matter if one hasa entire wall filled with bone. It's all about age now;) |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
It will be Ok Duke.... It will be OK! Which taste better.. but when they were the shape of the fruits they didn't roll as much... |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
yes
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
Then I'd post a picture of it on here and let people argue over wether it's 3.5 or 2.5 or 4.5.:D[8D]
When I do whack another good one I don't even think I'll have him measured. If I do I will tell them gime me the gross score, because I don't see no reason for deductions because both sides aren't perfect. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
And now we got a guy arguing Maturity, whilestclimbing around on the floor in his footy pajama's looking for Trix Cereal and hoping the prize in the box is a Ninja Turtle with Kung Fugrip....;)
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
That's funny I don't care who you are.
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RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d And now we got a guy arguing Maturity, whilestclimbing around on the floor in his footy pajama's looking for Trix Cereal and hoping the prize in the box is a Ninja Turtle with Kung Fugrip....;) |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
And now we got a guy arguing Maturity, whilest climbing around on the floor in his footy pajama's looking for Trix Cereal and hoping the prize in the box is a Ninja Turtle with Kung Fu grip.... You are a very mature person.. and I apprciate that. |
RE: Another twist on "mature" bucks
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d And now we got a guy arguing Maturity, whilestclimbing around on the floor in his footy pajama's looking for Trix Cereal and hoping the prize in the box is a Ninja Turtle with Kung Fugrip....;) |
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