All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Are just passing your problems on to someone else! The next time it might be a man hunting with a child. You will have stamped it OK to rob and hold a gun on them too. Have some guts! You owe it to your community. Lack of character is what landed us in the situation where we have to worry about these things in the first place!

Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Silent, I am assuming you are referring to the recent post where the hunter was robbed by armed thieves. If that was the scenario what do you expect people to do? You have a rifle leveled at you from point blank range. I hate to tell, you but at that point they make the rules. Nobody in their right mind is going to risk their lives and call the bluff. I agree with you that we should stand up and defend ourselfs. Ive been jumped before(they had baseball bats)and I fought back. They gave me 30 stitches, but they didnt get my property. But let me tell you if they were holding rifles and not louisville sluggers, they would have gotten whatever they wanted and I would live another day to revenge it!

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

why rehash a locked topic?

but let me straighten you out:

It's not about having guts or not. Nobody said that they wouldn't defend themsleves...but it doesn't take a genious to figure out when a man points a gun at you and wants your deer, that the best thing to do it let him have it.

I carry a Glock model 30 (45acp) daily...you will be hard pressed to find me NOT carrying it. I don't carry when I bowhunt for 2 reasons 1) it is illegal in my state 2)the public land I hunt on is a Federal wildlife refuge and it is illegal to carry a gun on the property. I value my right to carry too much to risk getting caught violating the law. I guarentee you that in such a situation, tha DA will do his best to hang you with violating whatever laws you did by carrying where you are not supposed to, whether the shooting was justified or not.

that being said, I shoot IDPA matches (International Defensive Pistol Association). I can tell you with upmost confidence that if you were to engage me in a gun fight, all I need is a portion of your head sticking out and you are a dead man. You grab my wife and hold her hostage, you better not let that head be where I can see it because I will blow it off of your shoulders. And I can do it while jogging backwards to cover.


Part of the responsiblity of carrying a handgun is knowing when NOT to shoot jusst as well as when. If I'm in a bank, and a couple if dudes bust in robbing the place, as long as they're not killing folks, I'm on the floor doing what they say. Damn sure not doing to die defending the banks money.


Just like I'm not going to risk pulling a gun on some fool that already has a gun pulled on me. This ain't the movies. More than likely he will take the deer and go. If I feel that death is inevitable, then I would have no choice but to fight.

Now,an unarmed guy wanting my deer is going to have a fight on his hands. But you dummys are wanting to fight back a guy that already has his gun on you? Hope you have a good insurance policy.


Hey, I tell you what, go ahead and fight back! That way, that's one less hunter in the woods bothering me when I'm hunting.

You people need to grow up. I don't know if your girlfriends are reading this or somehting, but I'm trying to figure out who you are trying to impress. Sure ain't impressing me none.

[*]NRA Annual Member www.nra.org[*]TNUSA Annual Member www.tnugent.com[*]NAHC[*]GOA[*]IDPA

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

I was referring to all of the people that were saying they wouldn't fight over a deer. blah blah blah

I wouldn't expect anyone to do anything with a gun trained on them but there were several other situations mentioned that were flat out cowardly. I wouldn't shoot anyone over a deer. But you can bet I would defend my deer or a piece of friggin bubble gum for that matter! I would however shoot someone for trying to asssault me while defending my deer. All of those that said they blantantly wouldn't fight over a deer etc. Well they are passing there problem on to someone else becasue they didn't have the guts to fight it themselves. I will guarantee that the first time someone beats a deer stealing slob into a mangled mess, will be the last time he bullies anyone out of a deer. People that refuse to fight are the reason people like this exist. I wouldn't kill someone for a deer but I would kill someone in self defense in a heart beat and never lose a wink of sleep! For those of you that say that you would just set there and take it, how far do they have to go? At what point do you decide to stand up and fight? I refuse to let any human invade me or my family in that manner. I refuse to be a victim! I have no sympathy for those of you that accept being a victim! Sometimes you have no choice but to be a victim, but you don't ever have to accept it!

Brian,

I assure you, the feeling is mutual!

Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."

Edited by - silentassassin on 01/16/2003 12:03:09

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

well the scenario that sagitatrious threw out there was for a couple of armed guys taking his buddies deer, and wanted to know what we would do...that's why everybody was saying fighting over a deer wasn't worth it
I don't think anybody said they wouldn't fight against an unarmed attacker (I'd make him eat dirt)
[*]NRA Annual Member www.nra.org[*]TNUSA Annual Member www.tnugent.com[*]NAHC[*]GOA[*]IDPA

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

The testosterone runneth over again. Time to close again!

"Semper Fi"

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

I agree basserman. Starting to wreak of dead horse! <img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

Shoot often - Hunt always

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

SILENT... you're grasping at air and twisting the scenerio. The question was put to us as being out numbered, undergunned etc. If I guy shows me his fist and I have both arms he's in for a fight. No one said we wouldn't defend ourselves. We simply stated we didn't see the value in taking a life over a piece of meat. I have no quams about blasting the hell out of someone if the situation merits such a response. I've done it before. I've also put the barrell of a loaded gun to someones temple with every intention of dropping the hammer if things didn't proceed really well. But I just don't think a piece of meat is worth it. No matter how macho you think it is to defend yourself and &quot;STUFF&quot; at all cost.... if I have the drop on you with a firearm you don't stand a chance if my intentions are to shoot. Go ahead... try it... &quot;make my day&quot;. <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I personnally have NEVER heard a direct story(other than an urban legend) where someone took a deer a gunpoint. Don't try and blame us for the next victim of a crime because we see MORE value in life than a chunk of meat. We're not passing anything on to the next guy. We're using prudent judgement and making our standards as to what life is worth. It's more than a pound of jerky.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Silent,Just wondering how old are you.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Personally, I wouldn't even get in a fist fight over a deer. Go ahead and blast me for it.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> I have no sympathy for those of you that accept being a victim! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

I really don't care.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> No matter how macho you think it is to defend yourself and &quot;STUFF&quot; at all cost....<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

It isn't a matter of macho or not. It is a matter of having the right to not be ****** with. It is a matter fo standing up for what you believe in. I assume everyone here believes they have the right to not be robbed or harrassed. I just think it is pathetic when you lose the will to stand up and fight for what you believe in!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>The testosterone runneth over again. Time to close again! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

If you're tired of the topoic then move on. I didn't get my say before the last topic closed. I assume this one will be closed shortly, but not before I have the oppurtunity to say what was on my mind.


Charlie P,

I am 29.

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Edited by - silentassassin on 01/16/2003 12:45:19

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> You should keep in mind that opinions are like *******. You have yours and I have mine <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

In lieu of the prior topic and the replies that were given, I have decided to change my stance and get a sub-machine gun attached to the front of my truck. You never know when you go to the supermarket if someone will *%$* with you (as a few of you so eloquently stated), or worse yet, steal your parking spot.

Ya know what I fear, I fear that I will meet up with some of you trigger happy hunters who walk around the woods actually believing there is a good chance something like this could happen to you!


Just my two cents.



&quot;Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.&quot;

--Albert Einstein

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Ya know what I fear, I fear that I will meet up with some of you trigger happy hunters who walk around the woods actually believing there is a good chance something like this could happen to you! <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Well maybe you will be lucky enough to get killed by some moron that decides he wants your deer instead! I am not trigger happy nor I am I going to sit an watch passively while someone rapes me of my rights!

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

Edited by - silentassassin on 01/16/2003 12:56:32

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

quote

&quot;I just think it is pathetic when you lose the will to stand up and fight for what you believe in!&quot;


Your missing my point. Oh well. As a 6'3&quot; 240 lb. former &quot;jarhead&quot; I don't back up when the time is right. Risking life for a deer is not the right time.


&quot;Semper Fi&quot;

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Heee hee hee.... just call me a &quot;Sissy&quot;. I ain't killin' no one over a deer. Anyone want my wife? Honest... I won't fight ya'.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> Can I interest you in a couple cats? Come on.... show me how tough you are. Shoot me. &quot;Your honor..I only ask if he was alone as I was going to help him drag the deer. Next thing I knew he was beatin on me and shootin and... it was awful. I thought he was nuts...but all he was doing was protecting little Johnnie who lives in Ohio&quot;.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

It's amazing the size of some people's stones...until they're looking up the barrel of a gun with an idiot on the other end. My guess is that the folks that stomp and huff about their &quot;manliness&quot; the most here would be the first to make a &quot;boom boom&quot; in their boxers.

JRW

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>...I wouldn't shoot anyone over a deer. But you can bet I would defend my deer or a piece of friggin bubble gum for that matter! I would however shoot someone for trying to asssault me while defending my deer...<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Silentassasin-
These statements are contradictory. If someone assalults you for your deer and you shoot them, it sounds to me like you did indeed shoot them &quot;over a deer&quot;.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Right on JRW. You've gotten to know personalities too I see.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot;Semper Fi&quot;

Edited by - basserman on 01/16/2003 13:34:33

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Ok lets just play out your example of &quot;the next time it might be a man with a child&quot;
Since its your example I hope you dont mind me useing you in it.
You are faced with a couple of Unarmed men, now I havent seen many of those out in the woods but lets continue, they want your deer and dont care what it takes to get it.
Your a good size guy but its still two on one and the odds are against you and now you add that your child is with you but never mind about that its your deer that is important. So its on and the kicking and hitting and what ever else is hitting the fan and so far things are going about even but then you get hit and it takes the starch out and they see it and now they start working you one on one with the other flanking you and again your get hit hard with what ever they may of picked up and go down.
Lets add somthing here before going on. Say its your son thats with you and he sees dad needing help so he rushes in to help. What do you think is going to happen to him? ok back to the story, lets see You went down and then both start puting it to you and you are now hurt, maybe bad. If your lucky they take the deer and leave but are you lucky.
You cant get out and your kid cant help. Maybe he can go and try to find help but gets lost in the process. Now both are in trouble in a bad way.
Now lets also see here, what if the kid was your young daughter? Im not even going to go into the possibilitys of what might happen there and again for what? A deer!
What are you going to do while your on the ground and they are doing who knows what to the kid. Nothing becouse you missed your chance to get them away to safty, your Deer was more important.
Cant happen to you! You bet your sweet --- it can! Just as easy as it can to anyone of us.
It doesnt take guts just the use of poor judgement.
Rick




Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

Edited by - Who on 01/16/2003 14:04:48

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>I wouldn't shoot anyone over a deer. But you can bet I would defend my deer or a piece of friggin bubble gum for that matter! I would however shoot someone for trying to asssault me while defending my deer... <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

No it isn't. I said I wouldn't shoot someone over a deer. I would shoot them for pointing a gun at me or assaulting me. So, I wouldn't be shooting them over the deer. I would be shooting them for assaulting me whether it was over a deer or a stick of juicy fruit!

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>It's amazing the size of some people's stones...until they're looking up the barrel of a gun with an idiot on the other end.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

If you are referring to me, I have been shot at from 10ft and the stupid SOB missed! I have also been stabbed once. I have a cut across my chest where a guy tried to cut my throat! I spent some time at the Penal Farm in Memphis for that. There are some serious racial isssues at the penal farm in Memphis and I was the only white guy in a pod with 37 black guys. You can't just run up behind me and yell &quot;BOO&quot; and think I am going to run off scared!

Protect your hunting rights, &quot;Spay or neuter a liberal.&quot;

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>You are faced with a couple of Unarmed men, now I havent seen many of those out in the woods but lets continue, <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Let me just stop you right there. There is a big difference in someone having a gun and someone holding you at gunpoint.


<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote><font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Ok lets just play out your example of &quot;the next time it might be a man with a child&quot;
Since its your example I hope you dont mind me useing you in it.
You are faced with a couple of Unarmed men, now I havent seen many of those out in the woods but lets continue, they want your deer and dont care what it takes to get it.
Your a good size guy but its still two on one and the odds are against you and now you add that your child is with you but never mind about that its your deer that is important. So its on and the kicking and hitting and what ever else is hitting the fan and so far things are going about even but then you get hit and it takes the starch out and they see it and now they start working you one on one with the other flanking you and again your get hit hard with what ever they may of picked up and go down.
Lets add somthing here before going on. Say its your son thats with you and he sees dad needing help so he rushes in to help. What do you think is going to happen to him? ok back to the story, lets see You went down and then both start puting it to you and you are now hurt, maybe bad. If your lucky they take the deer and leave but are you lucky.
You cant get out and your kid cant help. Maybe he can go and try to find help but gets lost in the process. Now both are in trouble in a bad way.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Ok. Now lets say this never really happened becasue the last guy they tried this with had a pair of balls and pistoled whipped both of the pathetic punks that tried to rob him!

Edited by - silentassassin on 01/16/2003 14:11:06

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

How about we just do what we think is the right thing to do and do it? And be done with this beaten up topic. I'm suprised this one hasn't been locked yet.
Visit My Updated Hunting Page

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Now the word was UNARMED. We have answered your questions how about answering mine? You are back to the guns again. Thats not what my post is about. Its about your post on just going toe to toe fighting.

Lifes not about knowing the answers, its about asking the questions.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I would shoot them for pointing a gun at me or assaulting me.
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>
You would shoot someone for assaulting you? At what level of assault are you talking here? If they smack you a couple of times and they are unarmed and you shoot them, that isn't just trigger-happy (which you stated you are not), thats murder.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

No matter what the situation, in PA if you are going to pull the trigger on someone you better damn well be able to prove in a court of law that severe bodily harm or death was iminent from your attacker AND you had no escape route. Otherwise you are going to jail for a long time.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<font color=red>&quot;If you are referring to me, I have been shot at from 10ft and the stupid SOB missed! I have also been stabbed once. I have a cut across my chest where a guy tried to cut my throat! I spent some time at the Penal Farm in Memphis for that.&quot;</font id=red>

There's probably a lesson in there somewhere. Either you're the unluckiest person in existance, or your way ain't exactly working out too well.

JRW

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Gee, I have been attacked in the woods.But over a land dispute and because 2 idiots did not like me as a disabled person carrying a crossbow.I would never kill any one over a deer.But when they assault me and my body I will do what ever I need to do to survive.With my crossbow I have not much defense,cause it is illegal to carry a firearm in Pa. in the bow season.But God forbid the person who asaults me in the Pa. in the gun season for no reason. I am licensed to carry any weapon in the state.If they endanger my life or my family they will have a glock or maybe even a mac -ten to face. Scared to defend your life or family not me! How can someone scare you from heaven.Scare me with heaven What a joke&gt; Romans 10:13

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

It used to be when someone would rob you that was all they did. Now they will shoot you, too. Just so there are no witnesses to an armed robbery.
The sherriff down here has even said on television that they used to tell people to give the robbers what they want and not to fight, but now he doesn't think that is the case now. If you see a way to get the upper hand then do it! If you are armed try to get them, cause they might shoot you even if you comply with their demands.

So...yes I'll defend myself and my property, once i harvest a deer it is mine.

Hey wimp, as for the escape route? heck the attacker could have easily caught you if you ran, or shot you in the back.

Has anyone watched Americas Most wanted and seen the survielance video of the cashiers being shot after they gave the money to the robbers???

FOOLPROOF?
Never underestimate the power of a fool!

What if the &quot;Hokey Pokey&quot; really is what it's all about?

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>If you are referring to me, I have been shot at from 10ft and the stupid SOB missed! I have also been stabbed once. I have a cut across my chest where a guy tried to cut my throat! I spent some time at the Penal Farm in Memphis for that.<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

So it's not only us.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I'm sorry, but that does say a lot right there. You want my deer.... come and get it.. I'm ready for ya.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Well, I was really surprised that BOTH my posts were locked.
Actually, I thought most people found them entertaining.
Didn't realize a couple of Winey Hiney Cry Babies could lock up a post when the majority seemed to be ok with it.
I thought majority ruled! I guess NOT!
Where were all my friends from the Technical Forum when I needed them, lol.
Surrounded by a bunch of peace loving newbies over here who think Santa, The Tooth Fairy, and Easter Bunny are real.
Don't get me wrong.
I really don't give a hoot in he** that they were locked but I do think it's wrong to lock a post because some crybaby just wants to have their way.


Sag.

Go with it while you can, Silent.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote> Winey Hiney Cry Babies <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Can you call a moderator one of those? Nahhhhh.... it'll never fly. Lock it up. If we took a vote it would probably favor the ole paddlelock too..... but it's not a democracy. I can hear the old jailhouse doors slammin' on this one. Has to be a violation of about 6 rules.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> CLANK!!!

Edited by - davidmil on 01/16/2003 18:38:51

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Sag,

No one has produced proof that these deer stealing bandits exist. Sounds like an urban legend to me. Your boys in the other forum realized you make no sense. Thats probably why they dont have your back. I think most of us are just being realistic. You=have no business trying to play gunslinger in the middle of nowhere. LOL..Sag thinks hes Rambo!!! C'mon, get a grip on reality, bro!

Edited by - eastwood on 01/16/2003 18:58:57

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
It's amazing the size of some people's stones...until they're looking up the barrel of a gun with an idiot on the other end. My guess is that the folks that stomp and huff about their &quot;manliness&quot; the most here would be the first to make a &quot;boom boom&quot; in their boxers.

JRW
<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>


Just had to let ya know JRW before this gets locked , you had me LMAO with that one!<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> I agree!


>>>---Doug--->

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Clint Eastwood,
Should have known you were lurking.hahaha
Hey, I loved Rambo 1 (First Blood)
He really kicked some a**. Didn't he ?
...And he was entertaining as hell. LOL

Davidmil,

You should know about pi**ing off a Moderator. LOL!
I've always got along with the Mods here just fine but there may be one who doesn't like me. Who knows ?
I don't remember a Mod complaining during my topic.

Oh well, GRIV at Archery Talk puts up with me and Pat at Bowsite lets me have my say. :^)


Sag.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

I have carried for decades and have plenty of experience . . . but I'm not stupid.

The Cardinal Rule of Self Defense - NEVER draw on a drawn gun!

Bowhunter

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Sag, did you ride the short bus as a child?

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

David,

Wasn't talking about Moderators when I mentioned Winey Hineys.
Just a few criers that want their way.

Oregonhunter,

Was that you making fun of me and all the other disadvantaged on the short bus ? : (
Is that how you get your kicks ?
Bet you would have liked to blast me and the other rejects on the bus with that subgun of yours. : )


Sag.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Seems like the season must be over.

RE: All you people that won't defend yourselves
 

Oregonhunter.... LOL. My wife wanted to know what had me falling out of this swivel chair. ROTFLMAO<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>