"Form" post.....never done this...
 

Here's some photos I had Lisa take, this morning (for something unrelated). Open for critique.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Draw length looks a tad long to me. I noticed that as soon as I looked at the pictures. Your head is not aligned with the rest of your body. Looks as though you need to cock you head back some to anchor correctly. Looks like a 1/2" - 1 adjustment would get you where you need to be.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

See, goherd....I think the same thing....though I've never shot anything shorter. I'm not complaining with my accuracy.....but, so far, I've only shot what the guys at the shop said I should.

Interested to see what others say.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Jeff, it takes 2 seconds for your Pro Shop to switch out the mods for you. Have them switch them out and take a few shots to see if it feels more comfortable to you. I did this exact thing a month or so ago. Went from a 28.5" to 28" and it made a huge difference. I felt much more relaxed and comfortable. Needless to say I kept the 28" mods on and left the 28.5" mods with the shop. If you want to go back to your current set up have him put the original mods back on and no harm is done at all. Takes about 10 min. for the whole process, including you slinging a few arrows.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Does this change affect:

1. nocking point?
2. ANYTHING else?

Ihonestly don't wanna mess with it in mid-stream. If it's a seamless transition....I might consider it.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Jeff, I am by no means an expert at form. But what jumps out to me is you DL is a tad long(1/2" maybe).It also looks like you are leaning back a little with your weight.

If your comfortable with your form and your accuracy, I wouldn't touch it til after the season.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Jeff, there is no doubt your a tad long. That's a 29" bow right? The next bow you order, definately order a 28.5. I shot 29 inches for over 10 years. I knew I was long, I shot well, won tournaments but that didn't make it right for me. When I ordered my Allegiance, I ordered a 28.5" bow. My next bow will be a 28" bow. It's always better to be slightly short than it is slightly long.

The only other thing I see is your forcing your fingers open. This could cause torque. Allow your hand to relax, we shouldn't force the fingers open nor should we force the fingers closed. When the pressure of the riser is forced into the hand the natural tendancy of the fingers is to curl around the bow. Relax the hand and allow your fingers to curl naturally.

Also, rotate your wrist out slightly, very slightly.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

DL is too long. Relax your bow hand. Your fingers should fall naturally alongside the grip. You are leaning back just a tad, or your hips are thrust forward a bit.....

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

You look like you're leaning back a smidge, DL just a little too long I suspect.

Do you typically cant to the right a little?

I could be wrong, but it's looks like you've got a little too much palm on your grip.

Cute butt....lol

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Seamless30 second fix..cut off your string loop add cushion and nock point!

Quick, easy, do-able at lunch, and in the black in 3 shots max.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Thanks, Rob (and others). I actually "feel" no resistance in my bow hand. I guess what you're saying is true....but I "feel" no tension in my hand/fingers in the position they're in. I'll try for even less.

I think I will order the next one in 28.5" and get the 29" mods for re-sale purposes, as well. I don't think I'm going to start tinkering with this bow, though.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

That's not a SC gamecocks shirt is it??[:'(]

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

I agree with your DL being a little long 1/2 - 3/4s long....
Your shoulders are not square with your hips.
To much tension in your bow hand fingers.

I wouldn't change anything until after the season ends.... You are pretty decent overall.... You have much better than "average" shooter form.

*Edit* I start to read the thread it has 2 posts.... By the time I type mine out it's 2 pages deep... :D

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Yes you look a tad long , maybe 1/2 inch , you are leaning back slightly , your head is not centered above your shoulders , your grip looks a little lose , your release arm looks pretty good pointed in the same direction as your arrow , but it is slightly pointed up , the draw change may cure that .

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

GR8......good point. When I shpot the General the other day.....I shot it off the string (No loop added to the string, yet). It felt fine. What are the DISadvantages of shooting off the string?

Yes....it's a CAROLINA Gaemcocks shirt....lol.

Thanks, Buckeye/Mobo/Monie/Ranger....I'm looking for corrective criticism.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Nope changing out the DL mods.shouldn't change anything. You will lose a few FPS but probably not enough to tell a difference. If you had the DL mods you could change them yourself. It is only two screws oneach cam. You don't even need a press.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Yep, you just look a little long on the DL. When I shoot a DL that is to long I find myself having to search for the peep. When you open your hand you put inside pressure on the thumb causing a slight bit of torque. Under a hunting situation it would really compound from the adrenalin. Like you I think after the season would be the time to work it out.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Couple things about shooting off the string. 1. It will tear the heck outta your serving, and since you shoot quite a lot, you'll find yourself re-serving rather frequently. 2. With your release being directly behind the nock, you get a much cleaner arrow release off the string, since there is no pinch like there is w/ the release on the string, below the nock. Eliminator buttons are supposed to eliminate this pinch, but don't think they do....I will admit though, I've never used them.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Ok

You are not very pretty:D

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

I had a great response on here before the site went down for me........[:@]

Anyhow, there are a few things you could change but before I get into that I would NOT change a thing now. I have no doubt that you are better than average with your consistency and changes now will not breed confidence in the field. Wait till after season is done.

With that said, changing your form will be similar to changing a golf swing. It will take 2-3 weeks of practicing with purposespecifically focused on these changes (not just random arrow flinging) for it to become subconsious and built into your muscle memory and repeatable. If you really want to change these things and clean the form up a bit use a similar routine as you would to make those swing changes. As you know, changes toa golf swing are difficult to make happen on the course, you probably make those happen somewhere else so that when you get to the course they are subconsiousso you can trust what you have trained yourself to do.

The things I would change would start with the front end. Your front bow shoulder looks hiked up and collapsed and I believe if you bottomed this out and also straightened the front bow arm a bit you could get more bone on bone contact on the front and eliminate more muscle from supporting your form. It would probably slow the pin float a bit and get rid of some tremorssince you would be taking muscle out of the equation. I'd bet when you shoot a lot of arrows you probably fatigue in the front deltoid (shoulder muscle), as I bet you are using it now to stabilizer and support your form. These changes will help you rely less on the muscle and there is nothing more consistent for placement of that front shoulder than locked down bottomed out. I would also like to see less tension in the front bow hand, those fingers should be loose enough that if I flicked one with you at full draw they should move freely, they don't appear to be that loose in the picture.

If you make those changes on the front of the bow, it will change where things are on the back for you as well. As you look now, you do look long but the front changes I already suggested will change the back end of your form and possibly make the current draw length come much closer to fitting you. I'd love to see that rear elbow come in a bit higher to form a straight line from the rear elbow, to the release wrist, arrow shaft, and the front bow hand. As of now your rear elbow is slightly facing down and that makes it hard to use your rhomboid muscles (back) to hold the shot and execute from your back. Your head is also leaned back a bit and your hips aren't square with your shoulders and feet to try and accomodate for the longer draw length. If you clean up the front end with that front shoulder and bow arm these things on the back endmay require only a VERY minimal draw length adjustment, like less than 1/2", but it's hard to tell without changing on the front first. My suggestion is to make the front end changes only and take more pictures. Then it will be easier to see how that affects the back end and where we need to go from there to make things fit perfectly.

Just my thoughts.........take them for what it's worth.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Photo for thought.....

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

**Edit** Rick James and I wrote our post at the same time (so I didn't see his till I posted mine) but we are saying the exact same thing and see the same problems :D

While everyone is correct that your shoulders are not square with your hips and you are leaning back a tad, I am not sure if you are too long.

Try this. Draw, do not touch string to your nose, push your left arm all the way out till both your shoulders are down and firmly in thier sockets, squeeze your shoulderblades together from the bottom a tad or make it tight in there and let those muscles under your shoulder blades do the work. Without lifting your front shoulder at all make sure your left hand is rotated out for a proper grip so your elbow is clear of the string path when you release. Keep your head square and dont move it forward or back. Have your wife check for your shoulders square over your hips, then and only then see where your string is. If its on your nose congrats your draw is correct. If not adjust.

I think you are leaning back, but worse your front shoulder seems up out of the socket a tad and your elbow bent just a tad too much. The shoulder and elbow need to be consistant as to create a firm and rock solid place for your bow to live :)

Surprisingly people with thier shoulder up and the string to thier nose can be short. So you may be long, short or just right.

Try the above and find out.

OR
You can measure from the center of your chest the the large wrinke in your wrist and that should be your draw length.
Or
You can measure your full wingspan tip to tip of your middle fingers subtract 15 inches then divide by 2 and that should match your previous measurement and that should also be your draw length.

Good luck

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Just a quick picture to look at to see what I'm talking about and a video as well........

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v283/ringostar40/Archery%20Competition%20and%20Form%20Pics/?action=view&current=24958d05.flv

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Looks like your gripping your release. (not sure your type of release), and about 1" or more too long draw. What is your anchor point on your release hand? Orare you just looking thru yourpeep and sight? I have three anchor points. My thumb under my jaw, my nose on the string, and a kisser. Then when I open my eye, everything should be inline with my peep and my circle on my sight.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

I just started shooting this year so the main thing I see wrong in the picture is the SC shirt you have on, but what do I know I am a Tiger fan.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

x2!!

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Well from my ACTUAL expirience..I've shot my 05 Ally off the string since it was new. It's never been re-served and still doesn't need it. You'ld be hard pressed to find anyone who shoots MORE than I do.

Having dismissed the first "issue" completely! I see no reason to argue the second. ;)

Was just giving options..shoot what you are comfortable with.

I shoot a Tru-Ball release and I would imagine any excess string wear someone may see..is more a "release issue" than anything else.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Totally agree with this. I shoot a sabretooth scott release, and would tear the heck out of serving. In fact, it tears up my loops every 600-800 shots.

My old truball is much smoother, and never had that issue.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

My experience with shooting off the string and shooting with a loop is sort of a combination of the two... I shot off the string for almost a decade or more, and only had to reserve once. My issues with it came in the fact that I was wearing out the eliminator buttons (the rubber cushion buttons to keep nock pinch at a minimum when shooting off the string). I found that them wearing even slightly would change my POI.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Bigcountry......the reason my release is being gripped the way it is....is my fingers are BEHIND the "trigger"....so I don't shoot a hole in my wall!

Scott....what are you trying ot show me in that diagram? Just curious as to where things "should" be. Thanks!

To everyone else....(and especially you, Matt....I was waiting on your reply!)....thanks. I'm going to tinker AFTER deer season.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

DO NOT shoot off the string!I've done both and I won't go back to shooting from the string for this reason. It's dangerous. Here's why.

With a short ATA bow (33" in my case), the string angle becomes big enough that the nock gets pushed slightly off the string at full draw. Twice I had arrows actually fall off the string at full draw - just milliseconds before I squeezed the release. I nearly dry fired my bow and it scared the ***** out of me. If you ever have to draw on a deer and let down and draw again, you're screwed unless you shoot a loop. Next time you shoot off the string try letting down and then look at how the nock is attached to the string. If the arrow didn't actually fall off the string, it's barely on there.

That won't happen with a string loop. With a loop, you can draw and let down all day and that arrow is still firmly on the string. No chance for the arrow to fall off which could cause a missed shot opportunity or worse yet a dry fire. I don't know why more people don't talk about this when discussing loop vs no loop.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

That makes sense. Where do you anchor your release hand?

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

GMMAT do not stay in draw length denial like i did. I shot a 28 " for years. Once I got my head out of my rear and finally realized I am truly a 26 in draw My 3d scored went way up. I actully won money shoot htis year and a local techno hunt league and placed in the top 10 or 15 of our winter 3d league that Matt wins every freakin year. But it was the best thing I have done.............:)[8D]

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

good input from everyone.

wrist sling looks like it might be a little snug...

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Why I shoot a longer ATA bow.

I have shot of the string for ever, I can draw and let down all day;)

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

I am having the same problem as you GMMAT. My PSE Nova with a 29" draw length was perfect, however 29" on my Allegiance is a tad to long for me. My next bow will definately be a 28" or 28.5" I agree about not changing anything until after season.

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

Besides what has already been minitioned, your gut is not big enough to ever be a really good shot Jeff, you need to eat more beans and taders!
Yes its true, some good scores are posted ever now and then by the skinny ones, but the consistent big score posters are packing around a pretty good size stabilizer out front!

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

LOL... I wonder if Matt / PA's scores will go down this winter then? [8D]

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

How much weight didMatt lose Greg? It will all depend on how far he can poke his gut out to stabilize himself ;)

RE: "Form" post.....never done this...
 

RJ's photo is a good example. His shoulders are square to his hips and his body is centerlined vertically.