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RE: Penetration Target Lies

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quotequote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
I had a bunch of questions for you but then I thouht why bother, I like my set up just fine, and it kills deer dead.

One thing kinda stuck in my head.

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>For penetrating targets, the smaller O.D. of carbons is usually a big advantage. That's the lie that the target is telling - carbons will not have the same advantage on a deer. <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

Where did you get this from? I thought you were just getting back into bowhunting after 15 years, so you aren't basing this statement on your own experience right?

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From these threads - the consensus seems to be that carbons bury deeper in targets even though they are lighter. This needs to be explained if one believes as I do that momentum is more directly related to penetration than is KE. Joe Tappely did the explaining.

beprepn

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Is KE not a component of momentum? As is speed. The harder something hits, the harder it is to slow down. The faster something moves, the harder it is to slow down. The more momentum something has, the harder it is to slow down. These pieces all work together. It merely comes down to how you go about accomplishing your goal. Quite honestly, I wish my arrows only penetrated about an inch into a target. They'd be much easier to pull.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Phil.
"Could you guys be quiet, my dad's trying to shoot."<img src=icon_smile_shock.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Penetration Target Lies

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quotequote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>Forget trying to persuade them. Just accept that you have something to say that they don't want to hear and leave it at that.

<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote>

That may very well be the wisest comment that I have ever seen posted!!!!!!!!!!!

beprepn,

Authur is absolutely correct!!! You should keep in mind that opinions are like *******. You have yours and I have mine and contrary to your beliefs most of us have thought about this in depth a time or two, before you ever cam along. Several of us have even done some pretty extensive field-testing over the last 15 years (while you were taking a hiatus) Most of us have done so for several years. That being said, you are not adding anything new or dynamic to this conversation. I am intelligent enough to think for myself. I even took a few physics classes back in college! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle> In short, trying to convince the "Light Carbon" shooters here that they are wrong is an exercise in futility. You are preaching to the choir! I can shoot your weight and momentum theory to hell and back with the "drinking straw propelled by the winds of a tornado example". The drinking straw has 1 ft pound of KE and probably very little momentum. The only thing it has is a 200 mph hour wind (which isn't but about 293 fps) behind it and the little straw with no momentum or weight can completely pentrate 2x4s and sometimes bury 3-6 inches deep into trees(seen that with my own two eyes). I still haven't heard a good explanation for that one. All of the heavy arrow advocates typically ignore that comment!

I have some video of me hitting a large Northern Indiana whitetail right in the heaviest part of the front shoulder with energy robbing spitfires and light carbons. The video also shows me pulling the arrow out of the ground from where it had burried up, after passing through both shoulders. It was a bad shot<img src=icon_smile_blackeye.gif border=0 align=middle>. How exactly would aluminums have helped me??? The aluminum would have given off a great deal of it's momentum and KE through oscillation of the arrow(if it didn't bend). That would have helped my penetration how?????? You can only kill deer so dead. Heavy nor light arrows are going to make up for a lack of practice! If you hit them where you are supposed to either one of them will do the job! I have been out there shooting deer with both carbons and aluminums for the last 15 years and I have not found your ASSUMTION(since you haven't actually experienced it) that aluminums out penetrate carbons to be true in any case! To tell you the truth I haven't noticed enough differnce in penetration between the two to even warrant discussing the issue. I choose carbons because they are a tougher more efficient material. I get a little flatter trajectory and the differnce in noise and vibration is a moot point with the bow I shoot.

Protect your hunting rights, "Spay or neuter a liberal."

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Where I draw the line with light arrow carbon shooters and say they are wrong is when they start spouting that their way is THE way. Like the peanut head on this very forum that told me once that I am UNETHICAL because I don't shoot carbon and mechanicals at least 270 fps!

Light and fast is only ONE way. Wood arrows out of selfbows is another. There are a whole bunch of ways in between and they all work. At least as long as the jerk on the string does what he's supposed to.

Everyone knows my preference and it ain't light and fast. It doesn't include releases and sights either, and rarely involves wheels on my limbs any more. Too much work involved in that stuff and I don't need ANY of it to consistently make clean killing shots on deer and hogs out to 25-30 yards anyway.

Until I find a carbon arrow that weighs out around 600 grains, doesn't cost a year's salary, doesn't take a team of mules to pull out of a target and flies straight with a good, sharp Magnus broadhead on it, it's wood and aluminum arrows for me.

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Arthur P, Something tells me your set-up works just fine don't it.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle><img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

Silent,Your straw through a 2X4 made remember a story I read about a guy getting killed by uncooked spaghetti.He was in the kitchen when a tornado struck and the stuff went right through him.Killed him dead, I think it was a double lunger with alferdo sauce.

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Speed kills {accuracy that is} Thats a lie if you ask me I have a bow that shoots 290 and is deadly accurate with muzzys I think its the bow and the tune and of coarse form .

We all have different oppinions , if we did'nt the world would be a BORING place

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Silent... Tornado propelled straws... Phhbbbttt! I submit there is a great likelihood that the wood is twisted and the fibers pulled apart by the wind, the straw gets blown into the crack and the fibers close up on the straw when the wind passes.

How about the tornado propelled 2X4 that went through a brick wall, thru my brother's pillow, thru the mattress and box springs and gouged a divot in the concrete under the carpet? Same tornado took all the furniture out of the living room except for the coffee table, but left my tax refund check sitting on that coffee table under my mother's favorite ring. (It took every dam*ed thing else tho.) April 10, 1979. Wichita Falls, Tx.

Tornados do some wierd stuff, like sitting a slightly dirty pickup truck without a scratch on it in someone's second story bedroom. I've seen that one with my own eyes. So, I don't accept tornado propelled anything as any kind of convincing evidence. Too much stuff going on inside those monsters and too many variables. I'm much more impressed by your story of the double shoulder passthru.

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Arthur P,What about the uncooked spaghetti,that's kinda wild, true story.

RE: Penetration Target Lies

Like I said, tornados do all kinds of wierd things. The guy might have gotten slammed into the wall with a package of spaghetti between him and the wall, and got the stuff punched into him that way. I wouldn't just assume the wind blew it into him.

The straw stuck in the wood or the spaghetti killing a man stuff ranks right up there with the ping pong ball vs bowling ball momentum argument. Neither one applies to arrows.