RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

lots to catch up on

1. I live by a park. I can walk/jog within 20 yds of deer if I am on the trail & they barely pick thier heads up to look. I live where I see deer in my yard and they watch me shoot my bow, and the neighbor kids play.
When I go to the park and shed hunt or get off the trails to try and take pictures or whatever, I can't get anywhere NEAR the deer. When I head into the woods behind the house and they catch the slightest notion that I am there. They turn around and go a different direction. I've often thought about pretending I am just back there dumping branches or something non threatening, but I just can take that mindset in the woods with me.

2. I don't understand the mutual exclusivity between targeting bucks & does for an entire season. I target does in a low impact fashion early on. I can still notice signs of rut activity picking up. Once things get to a certain point I will switch over and hunt stands that bucks will be inclined to go past because they feel safe and think a doe may be there. Then if after I've tagged a buck and still have doe tags, I can resume the doe targeting, and not worry as much about the impact at the time anymore.

3. While the last 4 bucks I've shot came off a does tail, I was not hunting places that I would say "I was hunting where the does were". The does are almost everywhere. I was hunting locations where I felt a mature buck was more likely to look for them at because of terrain, and his perception of staying safe(even during his guard lowering of the rut) I often wonder if I could hunt these locations early on and be successful? I'm too afraid to risk spoiling them.

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

Oh yea, give me unpressured deer anyday. I don't really know what that would be like, but it sounds nice. :)

I don't care if there are less of them. I'd rather hunt 20 normally behaving deer, than 100 nocturnal, jittery ones.

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

Yep I agree in can happen, but the odds of it happing are lower. My biggest buck never saw me;), but I saw him twice.

GR8 some good questions here is what I do.

I could really careless how many bucks are on my property in August and Septemeber. Who knows what will happen. What I try to do is keep as many does as I can. I do this with only hunting certain stands. I will only shoot a doe in the morning. 1 so I can see where she goes, and 2 I can get her out rather easliy. On my boat or the tractor. Tractor I can drive anywhere and lifes is good;)

Since I am hunting them at observation stand, they are far from bedding areas.

Lets say I see a buck in a spot I want to hunt and I have no stand there. Well I used my Dad's truck and his chainsaw. I dress and wear the same clothes I do when I cut wood. I go to the area in HIS truck and use HIS chainsaw(my dad likes to cut wood). The deer in are area are used to my dad cutting wood. So they think nothing of it, I may be nuts, but I think it works.

In Huron national forest I am in total stealth mode. We all have to find what works best for our area.

Maybe sneaky and invisble are not the right words in some cases, maybe deception is the right word in some cases.

Take my KY hunt, first 2 days I hunted deep in those woods. I walk 600+ yds one way. TFOX said these deer are on the edges, they are not bedded back in the woods. Well I seen most of the deer 333 yds in off a firebreak. The deer move outside in there, so it requires a different approach. I should have listen to TFOX earlier, but it is what I knew. Now I know;)

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

Wow, I go to cut some wood and this thread jumped 7 pages!

Just a little food for thought, A well known Bowhunter and frequant acquaintance of mine once wrote in his book that scientists say that a human genius can concentrate on a single subject uninterrupted from 7 to 10 seconds. The average person from 3 to 5 seconds. If a deer can stare you down for over 5 minutes without flicking his tail or batting an eye. WHAT CLASS DOES THAT PUT HIM IN?

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

Well, I figure its time for me to chime in on this.

As far as deer "learning" about hunters and the dangers associated with them, I don't believe in that, but deer do have "instinct" and they can form patterns. A deers instinct is really what keeps them alive. Deer will usually play on the "safe side" of things. If they notice something that is out of the ordinary they will probably take a different route where everything is as usual. It isn't necessarily that they associate the change with danger, they would rather be safe than sorry.

GMMAT, you stated...

And this is a good question, but the difference is that if a deer is accustomed to hikers going through the woods they will typically associate those hikers to the specific trails they use and they will see that the hikers move out of the area immediately. Rob brought up some great points along these lines on a post a few weeks ago where I guy was asking about using his ATV to get into his hunting area. The deer become use to the ATV noise in an area and they don't associate them with danger, but if that same rider where to turn the ATV off the deer would sense that something is different this time and they would either leave or be on high alert. Last summer when my property was in soybeans and it was easy to spot the bachelor groups in the summer I was able to ride my ATV past very large and mature bucks without them paying any attention to me, but if I were to turn the quad off or stop they would instantly realize that this wasn't normal and they would be gone.

Now as far as "hunting the does for the bucks" goes, I am sorry but I don't believe in this at all. Its not that it won't work, but for me I just don't see it as being the most productive method. Most of my buck sightings last year where not in areas with numerous amounts of doe, and I wouldn't associate any of my buck sightings being because of a doe in the area. These bucks were just cruising through the woods, checking scrapes and patrolling the area. I'm not going to say that this is the standard around the country, but I think too many people delve to deeply into thought and way over-think deer sightings. It seems that most hunters think that there has to be a reason for abuck to move through a certain area every minute of every day, but I have seen most of my bucks that just seem to meander around. Does a buck have to have a reason for being in a certain area, or could it be that he just got up and did it for no reason?

Now, as far as hunting pressure goes, I hunt in "low pressure" woods for my area, but with that said, these "low pressure" areas still probably receive more general hunting pressure than some of the heaviest hunted areas in other states. The insane hunting pressure here in PA has helped to make my areas the hot spots that they are. The land that I hunt is usually bordered by either public land or private land with a farmer to gives and open invitation to anybody to hunt his land because he wants all of the deer gone. My "honey hole" property is a perfect example of this, it is about a 150 acre piece of property with the north 90 acres being posted to everybody but me and the people I choose to take in. Now, the bottom 60 acres of these woods are private property that aren't posted so (like normal in PA) people don't ask permission and just hunt it. Now, to the east these woods are bordered by a 500 acre farm and to the south is a large corn field with SGL's on the other side of that, to the west is my neighborhood and to the north is a maximum security prison and the county jail. This little 90 acre chunk of land that is off limits to everybody but me and who I take in becomes a sanctuary. The deer on the properties surrounding this are pressured HARD and it doesn't take them long to realize that my "honey hole" is a "safe spot". That pressure from the surrounding properties is a blessing in that it puts more deer into my area, but at the same time it is also keeping these deer on high alert and forces deer to go nocturnal. It is hard for people who live in low to medium pressure states to truly understand the amount of hunting pressure in PA. A few years ago when the heard reductions were just started, it wasn't uncommon to sit in stand on the first morning or rifle season and hear 400-500 gun shots by 10 a.m. Give me a low pressure area with fewer mature bucks than a high pressure area with more mature bucks any day of the week. Sure, on paper it may sound like the area with the most mature bucks is going to be the best route to go, but when pressure is factored in the whole perspective changes. I would rather hunt a single mature buck that is easier to pattern than ten mature bucks that are so pressured they are pretty much entirely nocturnal.

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

I can say this......in reviewing my log....I hunt too much. That's a tough pill to swallow....but for every time last year I saw a good number of deer....or took a deer....I noticed I hunted that area hard for a while afterwards. Bad idea....but it's human nature, I guess.

Lesson learned. I have to hunt the fringes MORE....and the core, less. I guess it's "pick your battles".....or better...."pick the right days" to be an intruder. Last night I hunted a fringe stand. Busted two going in and had one blow as I was leaving. Heck I just blew back and walked out. What else do you do?

I may not hunt tonight....but if I do....it'll be in a 10 acre woodlot that 400 yds down the line from anywhere I've hunted yet, this year. Who knows? I may have pushed them all into there.

I'm either going to have to get used to seeing less deer......(i.e. knowing when to stay out of the core areas).....or get used to seeing less deer and having less future encounters (i.e. overhunting an area).

Hard for someone like me to get used to. I love to be out there.

I've got a 10 acre parcel across the road that I know the deer use to travel through, SOME. There's a pond over there and I shot my piebald there, last year. I only hunted there 3 times.....and the piebald was the only deer I saw in there. It beats overhunting somewhere else, though.

I honestly think I can probably hunt less.....and kill more deer, though.

We'll see.

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

Everyone knows Jeffs situation is unique with a ton of deer. He has put some nice bucks on the ground and a butt load of does.

Where I hunt I could care less if I even see a doe or young bucks, andI don't see many. Their patterens are so different you would almost think that they are a different spicies. Mature bucks are solitare, have different travel routes and bed in places that leave me scratching my head. I don't even consider the does with my setups. The most difficult part about it is that the dominant buck will rarely take the same route on a consistant basics. If you watch him enough though you can make an educated guess and it all might come together. A game of cat and mouse where the hunter is very seldom the cat.

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

sounds like NE iowa in 1st shotgun season. I hunted the season exactly once, counted 173 shots in the first HOUR of legal light....then it slacked off...a little. But...a few deer do survive somehow;)

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

I think what it is saying is that they are fortunate enough to hunt lands be it private or public with low hunting pressure and a good Buck to Doe ratio????;)

RE: OK... How about a little strategy talk....
 

I agree, MOHO....and I think the buck I took late season last year is a PRIME example of this. I saw him a couple of times and set up where I thought he might be, next (by guessing and using deductive reasoning.....i.e. he's going to switch up his "routine"). It worked out. He wasn't THE dominant buck....but I honestly had my chances at him, too.....and by employing the exact same strategy. if I'd had a tag on the last day of the season.....he might be on my wall, too. "Might";).

Someone one said (and I forget who it was).....that the key to killing a mature buck is finding and fooling HIM....before he finds you. I think by moving around....I up my chances of me winning that battle....but it's still a game of cat and mouse.....like you say. I am the mouse......yes.....as long as I'm hunting the woods I do as MUCH as I do. GREAT analogy.

And alas, Moho....I can't even play his game on his turf. I have to wait for him to come to me. I don't have access to him on all sides. If I did.....well.....I'd like to know "what if". I'm working on gaining another 120 acres to hunt to the south of me for the future. That'll give me a vantage from both side of the parks system......and it'll keep me out of my woods I hunt now.....a LOT.