Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Ok, hit a doe today right before dark and need some help. Shooting Gator 100 mechs. Doe was 25 yards away, broadside, slightly below me (I was hunting from ground, doe was standing in low spot). Clear shooting lane (she was in a field). Heard unusually loud thwack when arrow hit deer. Arrow appeared to be hanging from deer either above or slighly behind and above shoulder. Followed good blood trail for 20 yards to edge of woods where I found arrow.
Arrow is covered in blood, hair, and white and pink tissue for about 6 inches. Lots of pink tissue inside broadhead. The hair is mainly white. Blood is dark red. The "left" blade is missing, and a small dent is in the arrow on the "left" side about 4 inches back. I would guess I hit the shoulder blade or possibly the spine, causing the blade to break and the arrow to dent. I am not an experienced bowhunter. I feel sick about the lack of penetration; I had an excellent opportunity and it looks like I didn't make a good shot.
Decided to wait til morning to continue blood trailing as I didn't want to push the deer. Am I likely to recover this deer or was the shot likely non-fatal? Thanks for your help and I will report back.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Really, I think we need more information. However, based on what I hear you saying this is what I think. If you have pink blood, you've got some lung, which is great. But, with dark red blood it could be a number of places. Sounds like a shoulder hit with only 6inches of penetration. Sounds to me like you will recover this deer. If you have good blood for 20 yards that at least tells you the shot was not too high. With my experiences a high shot yields very little blood. My experiences with shoulder shots with little penetration is that the blood will be heavy for about 75 to 100yds and then begins to get faint, however, if you penetrated far enough to probably got some vitals. Stick with it and you will probably find this deer. By the way, did you hear the deer crash around alot? Not just running, but thrashing the ground? If so, she probably is not far inside the tree line. Good luck and keep us posted.

Hunt the thickets

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Belle Island, thanks for the response. Not sure what other information you need, but will answer any questions you have to help you form a better opinion. No, I did not hear the deer crashing. There were 2 other deer with the one I shot, and they all took off into the woodline running. It did sound like they stopped about 30-40 yards into the woodline, but I don't know for sure. The thing that is befuddling me is that the hair on the arrow is almost all white.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

...Hmmm it sounds to me like the evidence is contradicting what you think you saw. "Arrow appeared to be hanging from deer either above or sligh(t)ly behind and above shoulder." Unless you've shot an albino or piebald there shouldn't be any white hair in this location (sometimes a single strand could appear white in the right light).

Could she have possibly been at a steeper angle and the shot ended up in her neck whereby the broadhead came out her throat patch (hence the "white hair")? From your description it doesn't sound like she was standing far enough below you to catch belly hair.

Dark red blood doesn't sound like lung blood. However I have seen neck shot deer bleed dark red blood from a severed artery. If that is the case there should be lots of blood somewhere.

If she was in fact at a steeper angle you could have glanced off the scapula into the neck. In low light at an odd angle it could appear that the arrow was sticking behind the shoulder. Unless you find her we will never know.

You did the right thing by not pushing her immediately following the shot. I would suggest getting some help and get out there tomorrow and do a through job of trailing. Don't get discouraged and don't give up. "Leave no stone unturned", as they say. There is a good possibility you will find her.

Good luck and keep us posted.

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RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Sounds like that 'unusually loud' thwack was a shoulder (scapula) hit. After that your arrow may have changed direction either up or down the white hair had to come from the belly or the throat. If the pink tissue is lungs that deer is dead. But with only one lung hit she could go far. You did the right thing not pushing her.

What pound pull is your bow?

Go get her in the morning, good luck.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Isn't there usually tallow on the arrow on a briskit hit.

I would expect a shoulder hit that penetrated into the lung. A single lung hit deer can survive but if you go to the last blood of the trail get on your hands and knees with another pair of eyes and mark your finds with surveyors tape. I would think you'd find single drops of blood every 5 or 6 feet. Be ready for another shot cause I bet this animal will bed down not far from where you shot it.

Contrary to old wives tales, wounded animals will not stiffen up.

Bowhunter

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Isn't there usually tallow on the arrow on a briskit hit.

I would expect a shoulder hit that penetrated into the lung. A single lung hit deer can survive but if you go to the last blood of the trail get on your hands and knees with another pair of eyes and mark your finds with surveyors tape. I would think you'd find single drops of blood every 5 or 6 feet. Be ready for another shot cause I bet this animal will bed down not far from where you shot it.

Contrary to old wives tales, wounded animals will not stiffen up.

Bowhunter

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Thank you everyone for your replies. I am 99% certain the arrow was not hanging from the neck. I could see the shaft of the arrow hanging from the deer's side. I may be off on the exact location because it was low light, but I am positive it was hanging from the side, not the neck. I have examined the broadhead again and it must have hit something pretty hard as the left blade is broken cleanly about 1/4" from the base. There are a few brown hairs, but a lot of white hairs all over the broadhead and shaft. Will be looking for the deer bright and early in the morn.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Good luck finding her maybe you'll get lucky. Buy some Muzzy's before next year!

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Just a thought! Inspect the hair a little closer. Sometimes what appears to be white hair (from belly) is not. Even the brown body hair appears to be white when laying on ground , until you look closer and see what looks like a blackish brown tip.
The pink blood and gore would be enough to keep me optimistic. I hope you find her!

>>>---Doug--->

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I have no idea,but the blood trail sounds good.Just let us know if you find it.I wish I could help.I can smell deer like a dog.Just have not had a chance to do it lately

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

All kinds of crazy things can happen when an arrow hits an animal. If there is a lot of white hair and you have ruled out the neck then it has to come from belly hair. The arrow could have hit the scapula and angled down into the off shoulder area as has been mentioned. If this was the case there should be more than six inches of penetration, unless you didn't hit her as far up as you think.

As far as being fatal it would all depend on the path of the shaft and that is difficult to tell from cyberspace.

I do wish you well and hope you find her. Keep us posted.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I had the same thing happen to me , high hit 20 yards away my arrowstuck in the side she turned I could hear it banging off trees it broke off , there was blood all over the arrow up 10 inches, no blood trail, It rained soon after and all night and the next day, I found the deer after 4 days she must of layed down and not moved we must have allmost stepped on her seaching, she was not 80 yards from my stand I found the coyote boned carcass and the rest of my arrow but it was a kill shot so keep checking.when she ran she was low in the front.and not jumping.IT did make me sick that I couldnt find her so I have a new bow with one sight this will help me with my yardage problems

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I am leaning more towards kriskens thesis, I have one question, when you shot was her leg forward or back, if it was back you may have hit her leg/elbow accounting for the loud thwack, and continued on through under her armpit, both places have white hair, and tallow/gristle, or what you are calling white tissue, does the white tissue feel slippery/greasy? The pink tissue as stated is probably lung.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Ok I am back from bloodtrailing and taking a break. I am getting frustrated. The initial trail (heading west) has some pink blood and small amounts of lung matter, but this tapers off and the blood turns solid red. The trail continues west for 75 yards through the woods to a grown up firetrail. In the middle of the firetrail is a huge spot of thick red blood where it appears the deer bedded down. This blood is very fresh and the first sign of fresh blood.
Here is where it gets confusing.
From the apparent bedding spot the trail continues northwest into a thicket. However the trail has both dried blood and fresh blood. The trail continues west for about 150 yards through the thicket onto another firetrail. The trail through the thicket is primarily dried blood, very little fresh. The trail then turns northeast and stays on the new firetrail. Again, both fresh and dried blood on this firetrail, with more fresh than dried. The trail continues northeast along this firetrail for 50 yards (and uphill) to the edge of a neighbor's yard and onto their property. Here I am not starting to see fresh blood anymore but very large spots of dried blood. The trail turns east and runs about 50 yards to another field (my neighbor's). This spot is fairly close to where I shot the deer. I need to get their permission before continuing the trail. However, this last part of the trail the blood is all dried and not fresh. Did the deer backtrack itself? I am really not sure what to do.
I would think I should focus on the fresh blood. The last points of fresh blood are the bedding spot, and somewhere on that last firetrail running northeast. I may go back to the bedding spot and see if I can find another trail leading from it.
One explanation may be that the deer after being shot started to make a very large circle, somewhere and sometime near my neighbor's house it turned around and backtracked itself, and bedded down on the first firetrail.
If you have any advise or wisdom, please share. Thank you.

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RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Okay, I walked the entire bloodtrail again looking much more closely than before. I found little pieces of bone in some of the blood spots. I found more lung blood and blood with bubbles than I thought, even past the first firetrail. In the bedding spot, I found a red bloody gelatin-like substance; could this be heart tissue? I also found this substance in the thicket west of the bedding spot in some of the blood spots.

I am kind of at a loss for what my next plan should be. I was wrong before, there is no fresh blood on the second firetrail, it is all dried. The only fresh blood exists between the bedding spot and the middle of the thicket. I have walked the thicket on both sides of the blood trail looking for a new trail or the deer. I have made circles around the bedding spot looking for a new trail or the deer. I have checked both ponds near the area, and the creek.

In my opinion this deer has lost a lot of blood and some lung tissue, and possibly heart tissue. There is a 250 yd blood trail, with good blood sign all along it, and some of it has been walked twice by the deer. I also found blood on limbs and small trees about 3' off the ground. The blood is usually on the left side of the tracks.

Should I continue walking the blood trail or try something different? The deer behind my house are very consistent in their movements. They show up in the field where I shot this one at least once a week. If this deer survives, I will see it again for sure. I'm starting to think if this deer dies I'm not going to find it. Too bad all my hunting friends live so far away, I don't have anyone to help me. Thanks everybody for your encouragement and help.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

With that much blood loss chances are the deer is down. The Gelatinous matter is the blood trying to clot, but then being pushed out by yet more blood...a good sign.

Deer will bactrack many times ocaissionally, pick the freshest and try to follow that. Do you have anyone near with a beagle or a dog with a good nose? You'll find her, just keep looking. Every time you go out you see more of the picture in my experience. Good luck and keep us posted.

Trushot }}------>

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RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Are you marking your blood trail? This helps see how the animal is moving. Wet your finger and wipe it on some of the dried blood - it may not be blood at all.

I'd be willing to bet that you have pushed the animal and it has button hooked on you a time or two, and that you have been close enough to spit on it. I wish I were close enough to help.

A second pair eyes is an invaluable asset when tracking. You need to track with both your eyes and ears and be patient. A lack of patience is responsible for losing a lot of animals, but is sounds like this isn't a problem for you.

This deer is in it's home territory and it is unlikely it will leave.

Bowhunter

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Thank you all for the help. Struck out today, but will be out looking again tomorrow morning. I am marking the trail with toilet paper so it is easy to follow and backtrack. Tomorrow my strategy will be to go to the fresh blood sign in the thicket and look for a new trail. The fresh blood stopped in the thicket. I marked it as the "last blood". There is a trail of old blood leaving from it, but not fresh. Maybe I missed the new trail.
It has now been 30 hours since the deer was hit. How long can a deer survive a single lung hit? Is it probable the deer is dead or alive? Thanks again.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

They say a deer hit through one lung can survive.I have hit 2 deer{one this last season}through one lung,both died within 200 yards.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I've been using the same broadheads as you w/a 45lb recurve @ 28" draw for the past 3+ years & have NEVER lost a deer, just this year the buck I shot was shoulder hit & didn't go 300yrds & was done. I have come to beleave that if I hit a deer ANYWHERE near the vitals it's a dead deer! Keep looking.. Good luck & if you don't find her I'm sure the critters will! lol

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

If the deer is staying in the thick stuff why noy get a couple buddies and have them put a very slow push to you? Might just be able to get a finishing shot on the deer.

Sniper, You use mechs. out of a 45 lb recurve? What type of KE are you getting out of your set up?

Edited by - Charlie P on 01/12/2003 09:39:36

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Charlie... he must be shooting some of those mop handles we hear about to get any kind of penetration with a mechanical and that set up.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Well, it is day 2 and my luck is getting worse. I looked this morning and found no new sign. It has started snowing and we have close to an inch on the ground. Do you think at this point the deer is either dead, or if not, will survive?

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Hi,

I agree with Krisken,I don't think you got a vital.

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RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

i am just making a statement.when you hit a deer in the sweet spot you cannot beat a mech. broadhead.but if you don,t hit that sweet spot ,that deer is going to run for his life.because when that broadhead starts to open it runs till it falls over.ihave seen about10 deer hit with mechs. i won,t name any brand .out of those 10 deer i help track about 5 of them ,that we never found.i only shot fixed broadhead,and again i won,t name any name brand.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I am sorry about your luck. I hope things start looking up!

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

You said you mentioned a dark red blood, I'm no doctor, but I know that when a liver bleeds, the blood is unusually dark. Also, you said you heard a loud noise, you most likely hit a bone, shoulder or maybe the spine. Hope ya find the doe.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Ye dark red is an indication of a liver hit however it is also the blood color from a meat hit. The thing that gets me though is that the pinl tissue should be lung.

After this time, I'd bring out the dog especially with the advent of snow.

Bowhunter

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

dark blood is also a sign of a non-vital hit in the whithers....between the spine and lungs. im venturing to guess that he clanced off of the top of the shoulder blade, hence the loud &quot;thwack&quot; and the arrow probably burried itself in the whithers....they'll bleed like a son-of-a-gun, but they'll live none the less.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

kgkoon I will again concur with krisken, from what you have said this deer if it is down for the count is layed up in the thick stuff, get a dog and work that brush HARD.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Proud father of a Devil Dog

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Have had a similar hit ! This deer sounds exactly the same. The &quot; lung matter&quot; is more likely fat permeated w/ blood. The deer i hit wheeled at the last split 2nd and the arrow wentbehind the shoulder but between it and the rib cage and the broken blade stopped the penetration when it lodged in the shoulder blade. Chances are that the combination of dry and fresh blood say that the deer is being bumped during trailing.Had to shoot mine a second time. Caught up to her on the blood trail when I circled around keepin wind in my favor and having a partner continue the trail. She didn't wanna leave the thick stuff , so after chasin her round the block 1 1/2 times we had apretty good guess as to where she was goin. That and a lot o LUCK!!!! I don't believe this hit sounds mortal, atleast not from hemorhaging. You may be surprised how a little blood goes a long way, like oil on the garage floor!! She's definitely running in circles ( backtraking). You may even catch her feeding in the same place if ya let her calm down a day or 2. Hope this helps!!!

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Twig, I think you are right. The last fresh blood sign I found ended in the thicket. I have searched that thicket over and over and found no fresh sign. The deer is either dead somewhere in that thicket or is still alive and stopped bleeding. I'm starting to think it has survived.
I still think I may have hit a lung because I ended up finding some pinkish blood and blood with bubbles in it. I am going to let the area sit for 2 days and see if the deer returns. &quot;The field&quot; I shot it in has a food plot. I have killed deer before in this area and the deer always return. If the deer returns, then I am going to start hunting it again. If it doesn't return, then I will start looking for the body.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

I don't have anything else to add to this tracking except that I want to let you know I admire this type of effort in recovering an animal.
Too often we hear about the guy who spends a couple of hours and then goes back to hunting. I don't see where you have done anything wrong in the shot or the tracking. If this deer lives or is dead you can at least be proud that you took the time to do all you could in the attempt to recover the animal. The experience that you have got from this is what is will help you in the future.

Good Luck
Jeremy

&quot; Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad&quot;

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

SW Iowa, thank you for the kind words. I was raised to be an ethical hunter. I am still fairly young (27), but so far I have lost only one deer that I wounded (this might make it 2). This is only the 3rd deer I have had to bloodtrail over 50 yards as I have been primarily a rifle hunter in the past. I plan on becoming more of a bow hunter this coming season. What motivates me to look for a deer is that I took the responsibility to shoot it, and I took the risk of not making a clean shot.
Call me crazy but I feel some kind of spiritual connection to the woods and feel hunting is almost a spiritual activity. I say a prayer over the body of every deer I kill. I know an unfound animal will not go to waste as other critters will eat it, but as the killer of that animal I have a moral duty to seek it out. The anti-hunters will never understand this, but I am more in tune with the natural world and nature then they will ever be.

RE: Do you think this shot is fatal?
 

Sorry to hear of your misfortune kgkoon, it sounds a lot like a single lung to me. One of the problems of this type of a hit is that a deer does not feel sick like a gut or liver shot deer, and does not need to go to water. The single lunged deer can really travel.

Regards