I seriously hope one day that all the knowledge you guys share, i can be putto practice and come over to the states , meet up and show you how you have helped me to become a good shot .
In the UK , they are not asforward and offer less help .
What you guys put up on here helps us new guys out greatly , it costs 20pounds for an hours tuition in UK . YOU FELLA'S DO IT FOR FREE .

Thanks to you all

Dave

This is a very interesting subject. I can tell you that Rob/PA Bowyer is dead on with his appraisal of the subject. Years ago I watched three good shooters miss a turkey at 18 yards on a steep sidehill. The only shooter to hit the bird had a level. Another thing that I believe has been touched on lightly is the level of the level. If your level isn't level and you use it, you are inherently canting you bow to some degree. FYI, a lot of sights out there today provide no means of leveling you level. If your sight does allow manipulation of your level, it is worth you time to level it. Regardless,if you zero your bow on level ground and have a shot a shot at a deer, elk or other animal on a steep sidehill, you would be well advised to have a level on your bow and use it.

Jeff, AP gave you a great scenerio with the site pins in the same plane ie 20, 40, etc..

Think of it this way as well, your bow is set up with the site pins to launch your arrows up, actually your holding your bow so that the arrow leaves in an upward trajectory to counter act gravity so your arrow arcs to the target. Do you agree with this?

Now, if your canting your bow off level, your actually shooting the arrow up and left/right depending on the direction of your cant.....do you agree that your arrow would hit left or right depending?

Without a level, if you cant your top limb towards the upward direction of the hill, you'll be leveling your bow more so because instinct tends to be off level on side hills. Practice this at home, get on one of your side hills there and draw your bow ignoring your level, anchor in and check your level...I'd bet your off. Now level your bow and watch how hard you think your canting into the hill to level your bow.

Now, levels can be misaligned when shooting extreme uphill or down hill shots because the level actually changes planes. If you hold your bow directly over your head, your actually leveling left to right vs, ATA. Comprende?

Most if not all slide bar sights,as well as some hunting sightsallow you to set them up with cant so as you slide the sight up or down it runs vertical and perpendicular with the level.

gmmat,you are correct with your assumption.



There are MANY shooters that set there bows sight level with a cant in the bow.Some are comfortable shooting that way and imo,you lose some forgiveness but if it is more comfortable,you probably get that back.The pins stay level and perpendicular to the sight levelbut not the bow so all shots are center with centershot,therefore when going back with yardage.you do not hit left or right.


As was mentioned in the original post,some bows don't have the string and riser running on the same vertical line,most 1 cam bows have the string running at an angle with the riser and most set those bows up level with the riser.I disagree with the cam 1/2 not running verticalbecause all mine have had the riser and cams running vertical and level with each other.Some may not but has not been my experiense.



Alot of people don't understand the importance of the 3rd axis but Rob's response pointed out the need for the 3rd axis.If an arrow isn't square with the level,when you point the bow downhill,the level will lie to you.


Now,to get the 3rd axisset up right it must be square with the arrow but most set their 3rd square with the sight and if the sight isn't square with the arrow,it is still going to lie to you,therefore the 4rth axis is another neccesity for serious competition shooters,only to get the 3rd set properly.


Here is a web site that has a product to help with setting up levels in all axis and has some good examples of why and how.
http://www.archerytech.com/




Did that completely confuse you.

Not if your bow is sighted in the way I described.

I think I'll stand by my original assertion, again. I don't think the level matters.......if the archer is consistent......and does the same thing EVERY time (including sighting his bow in that way).

If he goes to extraordinary lengths to level his sight to exactly match the cant he intends to use, and if he uses that exact cant on all shots and never varies, then yeah. That'd work. BUT...

Then the ONLY way that can be done successfully and consistently is with a level. The level would be CRITICAL to such a setup. So your assertion the level doesn't matter winds up going right out the window.

Arthur....thats just BS. My assertion (by your own admission) is correct. By your way of thinking.....the bubble would have to be in the EXACT same location between the bubble window for the level to work, then. ANY slight variation would throw off the shot (however slightly or pronounced).

What did people do before levels on sights? They tried to maintain a consistent form when sighting in and shooting. Right back in the window......

Jeff, I really think you need to put your target on a side hill and ignore your level and shoot. You might be surprised. I see it with people in my back yard. Everyone (good shooters) tend to shoot right in my backyard even though it's fairly level, the woods beyond the target slants and you guessed it, to the right downhill. I tell them to cant into the hill and watch the level and it brings them back. I'm telling you this from being a seasoned 3D shooter....sometimes it's only inches however, it can make or break a 3D shot and or a killing shot depending. AP and myself are not blowing smoke. Honest. I don't think you are wrong in your thinking, your just overly thinking it, I think.

Rob:

I dont question your logic. I'm only asserting what I said. I didn't take your scenario into account....but let's look at it, logically.

Man sights his bow in with a slight cant. Man mantains the exact same cant on every shot. Man maintains the exact same cant (in relation to "plumb")on the sidehill shot (level to ground is notwithstanding).

I assert he's achieved the same thing as his bow being "level".

I totally agree with that assertion, totally.

What happens and like AP said tho, your pins are then not in the same plane and you cannot move your 30 yard pin to in the direction of the cant and it would even be more pronounced the further you move down your pin line. That would work IF the pins could be moved left right independantly. (cant being the same every shot)