AK

Well, they're animals and there's nothing "wrong" with killing them any way you want...be it with a bow, a gun, or a slaughter house guillatine, as long it falls within the confines of the law so as not to cheat others out of having an equal crack at taking game.

But..."At what point do I lessen the hunt?"...the experience, the challenge...the reward. Every hunter has to decide what suits him, and at what point (if any) he feels he is cheating himself out a greater challenge or experience.

Some are happy with rifles. Others are content with the latest MQ-OU812 decked out with all the bells and whistles. Others don't feel challenged until they've got a recurve and aluminum arrows in their hand. Still others (me) prefer selfwood bows and doweled wooden arrows with steel points, 1920's style. A few don't feel alive unless they're using rawhide bowstrings and dogwood shoot arrows with sinew wrapped fletches and hafted stone points. (Ya ever make a set of well matched arrows from natural plant material, by the way? It's a real exercise. Makes you appreciate them a whoooole lot more than any pre-fab carbon on the market.)

I pondered that question for years shooting compounds. It's funny that you question laser rangefinders as an example of what may be too much technology. It was while pondering the decision to buy one years ago that I had a sudden revelation of, "Just what am I doing? What do I really want out of bowhunting?" I decided rangefinders and technology weren't it. I had been thinking of trying traditional for a while, but I remember the "rangefinder moment" as being the straw that broke the camel's back, prompting me impart a greater use of "myself" into hunting and to accept whatever limitations might be brought by not taking advantage of technology. That was my own choice, however, and if others enjoy the advantage of a rangefinder, that's great too.

The "where to draw a line" decision is personal, BUT it's also one that you MAY want others to follow as well. If you don't find baiting appealing for example, you may not want it to be legal for Billy Bob to pile up a mountain of corn in the adjacent back 40. There's a delicate balance act to be performed of what you want to do, and what you may or may not want others to do, while trying not to alienate them.

Back to rangefinders...I don't have a problem with them, but they're not my cup of tea. [Caution: Worm can opening...<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle> ] I do think there needs to be technological limits set on what can be used in various seasons though, so bowhunting remains bowhunting instead of turning into a game of &quot;laser tag&quot; or &quot;sit in your easy chair and push a button to remotely kill a deer&quot; 100 years from now...accurest, laser sights, gyroscopic stabilizers, speed (400fps mabey?) and similar cutting-edge and yet-to-come things that need to be nipped in the bud BEFORE they may become commonplace, so restricting them wouldn't alienate large groups of hunters already using them.

Rob/PA Bowyer

All very good responses. I anticipate more.

<font color=blue>Good Luck and Good Shooting</font id=blue>

<font color=red>Rob</font id=red>

davidmil

I'm a bowhunter.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

It is my sport. I don't do it to be sporting.
I don't do it to be ethical but I obey the laws. I do it to hear TWACK.
I do it to eat deer meat. I do it for the excitement. I don't do it to be fair. If it were suppose to be fair God wouldn't have given man the mind to make and use machines. If it were suppose to be fair or equal... I'd be able to hear, see and smell like a deer. It's not fair. I'm handicapped even with my compound, lazer rangefinder, camo, climber, scent lok. I need all the help I can get. OK, maybe I'm getting carried away... OK... maybe I take unfair advantage. BUT, I do love to hear TWACK. Tough.... I'm using all the crutches I want.<img src=icon_smile_wink.gif border=0 align=middle>

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cardeer

I dont use much of the new stuff,Not that I'm against it,but it all cost to much. The highest tech. weapon today is the automobile. Both by accidental hits and believe it or not we have people around here that actually have a old vehicle with beefed up front ends and they drive around at night,They target the posted ,locked up areas to hunting which has a high deer pop.Their reasoning is them idiots wont allow hunting ,so we will run them over.Here in Pa all you have to do is call the PGC and tell them you hit a deer.They send you a permit for the deer in the mail.You are suppose to send them the antlers or pay 10 dollars a point if you want to keep it.Thats what happened to the piebald I was hunting.Now thats modern tech that is being used by the slobs around here.So I don think I would worry about range finders,super duper bows and etc.

AK

Krisken, If you're thinking of hunting with tradtional bows, don't be scared for a minute about their ability to send an arrow hard enough to kill deer. When properly spined, moderate weight arrows and cut-on-contact broadheads are used, broadside passthroughs are quite normal with a 50-55# recurve. As with any weapon, the key is taking only the shots you are confident you can pull off cleaning, and passing on the ones you don't. My own shooting confidence varies throughout the season depending on how much practice I've done and temp/weather conditions. I've passed on deer as close as 10 yds because for some reason the shot didn't feel right. On other occassions, I'll killed deer cleaning at distances to 30 yds. (Kills have been at 8, 9, 10, 18, 25, and 30 yds...all from the ground except the 8 and 25 yd-er from a treestand). Strangely, perhaps, I've actually taken more deer in the last 3 years of selfbow hunting than I did year to year with compounds.

Here's a picture a fellow selfbowyer posted on another forum. (He posted it to the public so I doubt he'd mind if I add a link here.) It's his Ohio buck from this year. The bow...a short, 46# osage &quot;sliver/pony bow&quot;. The arrow...a selfnocked cedar arrow with handmade steel &quot;trade point&quot;. His bow setup had enough energy to completely pass through the deer. He was able to pull it off because he waited for good, quartering away shot at 7 yards.

AK

Oops, try again.

http://community.webshots.com/photo/...55155606UPSynk

Arthur P

Krisken, it does sound like you're a latent traditionalist. D

Deer have been killed by arrows out of simple wooden bows for at least 35,000 years. Wouldn't it would stand to reason that there have been far more deer killed by wood bows than all the compounds ever built? Used properly, they are a heck of a lot more effective than most people give them credit for.

I don't know about your original question. In a way, I think there are a lot of people using the gadgetry to make their hunting 'easier.' Manufacturers are definitely marketing the stuff to capitalize on humankind's inbred laziness, and that ticks me off. But, after using some of that stuff myself, I found that it actually put more limitations on me and caused more problems that had to be solved either by adding more gadgets or getting rid of the junk. I got rid of the junk. For instance, my 75% letoff bows, sights and mechanical releases were junked after my first time in the woods with them.

Ethics. Yep it's a can of worms. Used to be, most bowhunters accepted Pope and Young's rules of fair chase as their code of ethics and the manufacturers would not make non-compliant gear. But nowadays, those rules don't make it easy enough for a lot of people and the manufacturers found out they were missing out on easy money. So most people ignore P&Y's rules and say that as long as it's legal, then make up your own ethics. Isn't it odd though, when someone that doesn't want to be bothered with P&Y's rules screws up and shoots a monster deer, then gets all huffy when P&Y won't allow it in the book?

So, being the modern, politically correct man I am (sorry, couldn't say that and keep a straight face<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>), do what makes you happy. As long as a fellow bowhunter keeps it legal and isn't harming archery and bowhunting by doing it, that hunter is welcome at my campfire.

huntforlife

I ask you this

is it fair that a pack of coyotes gang up on one deer or a 350 pound bear stomp on a tiny defenseless fawn a pack of lions going after a baby antelope?

no it is not fair but that is the circle of life we are predators just like any other carnivore out there the only difference is that we have a more developed brain and a conscience it is also not fair to round up chickens plop them on a conveyor belt and rip their head off or raise cattle to be mass slaughtered for the faint hearted who wish to believe that a piece of meat was born into a hamburger or a steak and was never in fact alive.

call me crazy if you will these are just some of my built up emotions after spending the holidays with my non-hunting relatives

now that I am done ranting to answer your question I think the use of certain devices like a rangefinder are good because they enable us to make a more ethical kill and minimize non lethal injuries to the animal there are certain items that cross the like but that is up the the indivual to decide i my self like stick to the basics i will use a compound bow and a rifle site and a rangefinder but much else seems to get in the way


Edited by - huntforlife on 01/04/2003 11:01:15

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