Help me pick a broadhead
 

Okay, I've been using muzzy 100's for ages now, and since I'm going with a new bow, new arrows, new everything - I might as well experiment with a new head as well.

Here's the dish. I got my paws on an HCA iron mace and their 5.5 gpi Speed Pro arrows, and I'm gonna be putting the heads on an arrow that will weigh in the ballpark of 200 grains with just feathers, nock and insert.

Just so we know what we're working with here, it's a 70#, 29" draw bow. Here are some actual chrono numbers from my bow.

A 255 grain arrow shoots between 360 and 370 fps. (55 grain head, 75# KE)
A 300 grain arrow shoots around 340 (100 grain head, 77# KE).
__________________________________________________ ________

Choices:

If I'm staying at 100 grains, I want a massive cutting diameter, and want to try a mechanical head, so the 2 blade Rages look pretty nice. I have about 3 dozen Muzzy's stowed away as a fallback plan. That said, I'm still leaning toward going lighter.


The muzzy 75 grain model looks pretty foolproof, but I fear problems getting it to fly right. I have no helical - 4" straight feathers. I'd guess that a 75 grain head shouldput me around 350-355 fps.


Wasp Jak Hammer 75 looks pretty nice. Mega-thick blades on this guy (.036)


Rocket Wolverine 57 grains! - 1 1/4" cut - .027" thick blades.


Rocket Ultimate Steel 75 (.036" blades) - supposedly flies nice - pathfinder chisel tip


High Country sells a pretty mean looking 55 grain head that is worthy of looking at





Now, I know you guys will probably think I'm nuts - going so light, but if you'd see my yardage markings out to 60 yards with the 250 grain arrow, it's absolutely sick. It really is one pin to 30, just a nudge to 40, and again at 50, 60. The bow is forgiving and holds light enough that I can make a good shot with confidence and no fear ofpushing my effective range outward.

The only thing holding me back before was my inability to judge yardage to +/- 5 yds past 30-35, but the flatter trajectory (and good FOC) is giving me a little more wiggle room to mis-judge a long range shot and still be in the vitals. That's why we're looking at such light heads.

I know this might be a dumb question, but do you guys think I'll have any problems with mechanicals at these speeds? I'm specifically worried about the blades coming open on the snap from 0 - 360when I touch the trigger.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Don't know how many people can honestly answer your last question about their arrow going from 0-360 from personal experience... [8D]

I'd take a hard look at the new Muzzy MX-3's. with the shorty profile..

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I can:D

The air drag at 360 FPS is way more than my 240 FPS[:-]

Is your total arrow weight 250 grain with broadhead or without?

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

My total arrow weight (Bare, with just 3 feathers, painted-on cresting, insert and nock) - is right around 200 grains.

The 255 number was the 200 grain arrow with a 55 grain head. 3.64 grains per pound.

So Gary -what's your honest opinion about how that 57 grain Rocket would perform out of that setup. That would be a 257 grain arrow, probably in the 360-370 range. Would I be okay if I just added maybe a second rubber band?

That was the game we used to play with those Punchcutters back in the day. It seemed like the faster bows were pushing them open, so we'd just add a second rubber band.

Greg - I like the MX3, but I've already got a zillion 3-blade Muzzy 100's at home. It would be nice to make the upgrade, but not worth scrapping the ones I already have. If I stay with a 100 grain fixed blade, I'll probably just use the ones I've already got stowed away.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I can't tell you which one to pick but I will tell you that I had bad expierences with the Wasps.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

If it were me I would shoot the rage. I thinkwith the way the head is design to open it will not be an issue. I saw a hole the rage put in a deer on Sunday hunting show. It was biggest entry hole I have ever seen. I could have stuck Hunsuckers guns in there;)

I am really close to breaking a Germ rule and going with the rage myself.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Yep. You're right. Good luck.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I think your nuts also:D

I may be getting one of those bows, I plan on putting a 600+ grain arrow on her and whack those deer;) I am really wondering how a fixed will fly at 360 fps?

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

You speak for me also... Since penetration is compromised by ultra light weight anyway, we've got to be spot on with shot placement. I'd be more inclined to go with a mechanical, probably the Wolverines (assuming they penetrate as well as Steelheads do), just to make sure I've done everything I can to help the arrows go where I aim them.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Yeah, you are nuts;). Quik, I'll make you an offer.....how bout I send you a Rocky Mtn. Turbo to try? 100 grains, 1 1/8" cutting diameter, all stainless steel, .30 thick blades. I've got 15 of em and I can spare one just to show you that they will fly absolutely perfect and hit hard.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

It looks to me like the Wolverine is the same head as the 100 grain steelhead, minus the bigger chisel tip.

Coug - give me some time to tinker around with my muzzy's first. I've never seen those Rocky Turbos before - they're a dead ringer for the old Kolpin Twisters.

Like I said earlier, if I'm gonna go with a fixed head, I'd like it to be 75 grains or under.

Anybody feel like tinkering around online and finding other heads that come in at 75 grains or under, just post a picture of them here, with the specs.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

looks about 25 grains, should do the trick with the rocket launcher you are shooting;)
Like i said earlier look at that rage and damage it can do. I have a thread somewhere and Rick james has a picture that is just awesome[8D]

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Sounds like you've caught the High Country Speedfreakvirus ;)

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

With that kind of crazy fast speed I'd be seriously leaning towards the smallest and shortest profile you can get. My choice for the ultimate in penetration and top end field point accuracy would be the Rocket Steelhead. If it's a fixed b-head that you would like, which I still have my doubts about with that kind of insane speed, I'd take a serious look at the Slick Tricks.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I've always been a bit of a speed nut. My old bow just wouldn't do it. Even with the cables twisted to the max, 77# on a 70 limb, preloaded, as light an arrow as warranted, string as bare as possible, missing strands... You can only do so much on an old one cam...

This new equipment really just takes it to another level.

My depth perception sucks, so I need to take as much of thearc out of the arrow as I can get.

Germ - don't cross me, or I'll stick one of those suction darts to your forehead. I've got a 70,000 yard pin, so you're in range.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Oh, brother! Glad I put on my waders before checking back in with this thread. IT BE GETTIN' DEEP!:D That's a reason to buy a rangefinder, not a new bow. Might as well go ahead and admit it because everyone has already figured it out. You just want to shoot a fast arrow. [8D]

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

The new bow upgrade (after added the dough from selling my old bow) was actually less than the price of a rangefinder. LOL

EDIT: Germ - I read that thread. Great stuff there. Those pictures are the reason that the Rage is getting such strong consideration.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=2193201&mpage=1&key=&#219332 9

Here is my thread on rage broadheads

EDIT:
That show I watch I was flat out stunned the hole it put in that deer.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Ultimate steel wouldn't even be a consideration. Blade retention sucks.

Two fixed blade headsI would strongly consider on that set up. Wasp BOSS Bullet 75 grain and Slick Trick 85 grain. The ST being my first choice.

Both of these two heads SHOULD provide you with excelent flight at those speeds.

I think the 75 grain Muzzy would be really iffy at 350 fps or faster.

If I were going to use a mechanical it would be the 75 grian WASP.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

if you're lookking for a mech, I took my first 20 or so with a Rocket Aerohead Miniblaster... 78 grains, and absolutely devastating holes!!

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

montec by G5

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I have experience with a few of the heads you mentioned.

The 75 Jak- Hammer;....... This is a good sturdy head. Stays together. Blades are thick and don't bend easily but can bend. Have taken several deer with them. Good bloodtrails but did have a couple that were not complete pass thrus. Fly like my field points.



The 75 Muzzy;....... Also a good sturdy head. Have taken 5 deer with them. Complete pass thrus on all shooting 60 lbs on an old out dated 1996 Proline Mountainbow. Just wanted to mention the bow so you could see I was getting pass thrus with that outdated technoledgy. These also grouped with my field points.




The Ultimate Steel;...... Just updated my old bow with a Diamond Victory and bought these heads. No kills. They group with my field points. Cutting dia. is small 7/8". I got a good deal on a 6-pak for $20 at Gander Mountain last year. Since that time, I had two heads that had a blade fall out of them. The arrows were in my hip quiver and somehow were missing a blade when I pulled them out. If they fall out in a quiver, what will they do in game? I'm not sure about this head.



And Rocket 75 Miniblaster;.......I know this isn't the 57 grn Wolverine but I'll give my experience with the Mini Blaster. I've taken around 20 deer with these heads over several years. I did like them, except they were only good for one shot. Blades bend and break easily. They flew like field points and left good blood trails. At they end of each season I would disassemble several heads and to get the good blades just to put one good head together. I got tired of this after several years and switched to the Wasp 75 Jak-Hammers.

I am currently considering getting the Slick-Tricks. Haven't decided on Standard or Magnums.



Hope this helps

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Windwalker, you're right... I should have thrown that in there: the 78-grain Miniblasters are definitely "throwaways" after using them.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

i like 2 use rocky mtn. snipers.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Man you are a spead freak huh! I don't know of many people that could really give you any sound advice on what broadhead to shoot at those speeds. I don't know of any fixed position heads that would fly well at those speeds exspeacially with 4'' straight vanes.If you are dead set on using a fixed position broadhead you may want to consider a helical or at least blazer vanes,even then I would have to see it to believe it.GOOD LUCK!

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

My experience with Rockets is apparently like everyone else's - Completely ruined after one shot. I guess I'm only planning on shooting each one once. You'd think they'd come up with a .030+ blade design. But, if you're in the business of selling broadheads, making a more sturdy (translation: less breakable) head - that's counterproductive. From a business standpoint... If that makes sense?..?

I dunno if I've been lucky or what, but I've never had any problems stabilizing a fixed blade head. Every once in a while,(muzzy, for example)a certainhead that might change point of impact by an inch or two on me, but that's it. Maybe it's b/c I usebig feathers, which help FOC or maybe they juststeer them a little better, or maybe I'm just not really finicky about it - but I never have any problems getting broadheads to fly.

One thing to consider is that with an ultralight arrow, it's gonna put the FOC totally off the charts, and that should really help with a true flight.

Windwalker - thanks for the input - I kinda figured the Wasp might be a more sturdy option than the Rocket. By the way- I used to have a Pro Line Mountain Series bow. Slower than cold molasses. LOL Got deer with it though, so I guess it wasn't that bad. That 57 grain Rocket really has my attention. The thought of keeping my 250 grain yardage markings has me salivating.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

I've been watching this thread off and on all day - waiting for someone to seriously challenge the wisdom of shooting an arrow that light. So far, no real bumps in the road . . . . . How large of an animal were you planning to hunt with the speedster setup?

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Whitetails I think.



I'd be very tempted to use a heavy lincoln log 600+ gr arrow out of that puppy. Could you imagine shooting a big heavy alluminum with a big fixed blade around 260 fps. What a KE machine!


I think a 480ggr arrow would give you about 90 ft/lbs of KE. and the mid 280's on fps.


This info could be wrong btw

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

With a 600gr arrow that would give you about 87ft lbs of KE. That would punch thru anything.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

What kind of bow are u shooting a 600gr arrow 260fps?

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Roskoe - I'll be hunting whitetail buck. Now, before you go off acting like I'm just some dumb schmuck with a need for speed, please know that I've done all the requisite research, and I've even tested penetration in my brand new block target (400 grain arrow vs. 250) - with no discernible difference in penetration depth(78# KE vs. 75#). Even though I'll be hunting whitetails, I wouldn't hesitate for a second to use it on bigger game. IMO, the gains in accuracy will easily offset the 3 lost pounds of KE.

I know I wouldn't wanna be standing in front of the thing when it goes off. That's for sure.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

It really doesn't matter. You're pushing the envelope to begin with. I suspect your equipment will blow up before hunting season anyway.[8D] The need for speed has got you way out of whack. Have fun and keep the children back when you shoot. [&:][8D]

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

You'd have to really put an aweful lot of confidence in your equipment if you only plan on shooting them once. I'm assuming the once would be at an animal.

Personally, I have to practice with my actual equipmentin order to have confidence in it.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Quick buddy, I am very intriqued by your bow and setup. As you know I have been considering the IM for my next hunting bow. And I appreciate all the info you have provided me with. That being said I must comment on the "oldtimers" that have gotten their feathers ruffled over shooting such light arrow. Folks lets keep in mind that even shooting a 250 grain arrow, Quicks bow is still under warranty. HCA warrants their bows down to 3 gpp. To me that sounds like a company that has alot of faith and confidence in the product they produce. I don't want to sound like a HCA fanboy because I'm not.Hell, I've never even shot a High Country bow much less owned one. Guys, speed is the future in archery. Wait and see. For all of you guys that think its nuts to shoot a light arrow, I will bet you anything, that they are the thing of the future in archery, as well as speeds up into the 380's-390's. Guys get out of the stone age.5 gpp will soon be a thing of the past. Besides when was the 5 gpp standard set? 20 years ago? I believe archery equipment has come a long way in the past 20 years. So go ahead Quick and put a big PA bruiser on the ground this year. And when you do hold your IM up high so all the naysayers can see that your limbs are still in one piece. [8D] Quick, I applaude you for posting your setup and specs on these forums knowing what kind of grief you would recieve from some of the members here.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Just hearing the waysome of youguys get all bent out of shape over those arrows really entertains me. Honestly, that'sone of the factors considered whenIpicked this bow in the first place - just to show the world that the old 5 gpi threshold is basically just an imaginary line, arbitrarily established to ensure that people didn't hurt themselves with gear that wasn't meant to be abused like that. I figured if I was buying a new bow, I wanted to get something that nobody else had, and made people say "W.T.F. is THAT guy doing?" LOL

Chris - You definitely "get it" when you're talking about arrows/weights and what the future holds.

Good point about the Fanboy thing too. I'm definitely not married to HCA, but they just happen to be the only company out there giving me what I want for what I wanted to pay. You obviously see the same thing I did - just the fact that they were offering a setup that can do something that no other setup can do - and do it with a warranty to back it. I was skeptical at first, but figured it would be my own little "experiment." But the more I shoot this setup, the more I realize how well everything here is put together, and how that translates to optimizing my bow's performance for field use.

It's coming. I know it. I don't know who will make the plunge first - Hoyt, BT, Martin (I think Elite will)... But somebody is gonna dip down to 4 gpp on their warranty soon, then 3. Knowing them, they'll have to upgrade to top-end limbs and strings, which will drive the bow prices over the $1000 mark. But when it happens, arrow manufacturers will follow, and you'll see a lot of 6-7 gpi arrows flood the market. People will then start badgering the IBO to change their weight requirements, and they will. They've lowered it in the past - and they'll do it again.

I know they've been developing them. Gold Tip already has a light arrow out (5.7 gpi?), but it's spined pretty soft.

Shooting these light arrows gives you so many options. You can keep the same overall weight, and really load up a heavy tip - putting your FOC totally off the charts - or you canstay light and get a bullet trajectory. It's not like we're hunting Bull Elephants or Rhinoceros here. I'm still retaining 74# KE into a whitetail.

We heard all the same arguments when Beman took the first big bite out of Aluminum arrow sales. The sky was falling, bows would explode, animals would die horrific deaths, arrows would detonate on impact, hide the kids inside while dad shoots hiscarbon arrowsso they don't get wounded by flying shrapnel. We see how that story ended.

I think I've settled on either the 57 grain Rocket, or the 75 grain Wasp. Probably gonna go with whichever head I can get cheaper.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

If anyone thinks that a 250gr arrow going 350+fps put in the right spot won't go through a deer, then they are just naive. Think back here old timers, to the days of recurves. Think about your wives and kids, shooting 45# compounds with 300 gr arrows, and getting pass throughs at 180 fps.

There aren't many bow set ups anywhere than can make it through the shoulder of a deer if you catch the main part of the bone just right. Doesn't matter how fast, how sharp or how heavy.... it takes a bullet to do it.



Cougars 09: Your numbers weren't that terribly far off. My Iron Mace, at 64#s mind you, is throwing my 454gr hunting arrows at 282, which if I remember right is right at 80 ft.lbs of KE, or just a few tenths less. Still pretty flat shooting anyway. One pin to 25 yards, another at 35 and then again at 45. My 3D arrows are 330gr, and go out at 317fps. One pin out to 35, and the next is at 50, which makes the 45 yard shots hard.

Quick: My main concern with your set up (if I were you), would be how your broadheads will fly. I would stick with something short. Take a look at the Wac'Em 85s, or perhaps any of the Sonics. Don't be overly concerned with getting more than one use out of broadhead. If you can, thats great, but keep in mind that its job is to destroy, and sometimes, it gets tore up in the process. Just part of the game. Don't overlook the HCA heads either, as they are infact designed to be shot on those arrows and off HCA bows. Makes enough sense to me to at least give them a try.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

No, they did NOT. You need a little history lesson.

IBO never had an arrow weight minimum in the beginning. No maximum draw weight limit either. And yes, bows DID explode, even before Beman came along. It just got worse after Beman. 90 pound draw bows with steel cables and teardrop string connectors, hard cams, overdraw to shoot a short 200 grain arrow... Those rigs sounded like 20 gage shotguns when they went off. They'd hold together for a while then KABLAM! I knew one guy who went through 15 bows in one season. He kept blowing them up.

Pete Shepley of PSE was one of the hot dogs pushing speed and light arrows back then That's when folks started saying PSE stood for Parts Scattered Everywhere. Pull Shoot Explode. Pretty Shoddy Equipment... Actually, they used a different word than 'shoddy' but I'll leave it to your imagination to figure out the real word.

It was right at the height of the lunacy that IBO came up with the 5 grains per pound rule. It's sole purpose was to hogtie the speedfreek idiots and stop so many people from having to leave their tournaments to go to the emergency room.

It would've been 6 grains - SHOULD have been 6 grains - but were afraid they'd have lost too many shooters. Actually meaning they were afraid they'd lose too much income. A whole lot of those numbskulls felt speed and money were more important than safety. At least it helped and I didn't have to perform first aid on bleeding people nearly as much afterward.

Take a Google on the internet and you can find all kinds of pics of guys with pieces of carbon arrows stuck in their hands, wrists and forearms. Arrows DO explode. It's usually their fault for not checking for cracks before they shoot, but not always.

The story isn't ended. Not even close. IMO, what High Country is doing is a sorry chapter in the storybook. That's why I wished you good luck earlier. You're very likely gonna need it. I just hope you don't get hurt.

You did know High Country had one of those fancy bows blow up with their 3.5 gpp arrows at the ATA show a couple years back, didn't ya? Just to give you something else to think about. At least wear high impact shooting glasses when you're playing with that thing, would ya?

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Sorry if I'm wrong there, Arthur, but I'm sure I read that the old threshold was 6 gpp, now lowered to 5.

And I only remember seeing one set ofpictures of an arrow in a guy's hand - and it was a Carbon Express Lincoln Log.

You make it sound like the old IBO shoots were bloodyWWII battlefields - which was absolutely not the case. Most of the guys who got hurt were actually using underspined ALUMINUM arrows, or were shooting such long overdraws that their strings were slapping the overdraw and cutting in half (resulting in bow explosion - string slashes). Guys were acting like fools - pushing 1916's at 80# on3" overdraws(like shooting a wet noodle out of a rocket launcher).

Umm... No. It was because nobody could complete in 3d with the hot rodders, so the IBO either had to act, or would risk losing mega-bucks when all the average joes with their slower setupsthrew in the towel and quit. Everyone complained b/c those guys had an unfair advantage, asthey didn't have to judge the yardages with the same margin for error. Safety may have played a small part, but it was largely an attempt to level the playing field, IMO. You would obviously disagree.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

You are wrong about a great many things having to do with that rule. It was, and is, a safety rule. Not at all to 'level the playing field'. NOT AT ALL. It's because they were so dangerous that sensible people didn't want to be on the same range with them. That's not my opinion. It's plain fact.

I was an officer and often served as tournament director for our club in those days. I don't know where you get YOUR information but I have first hand knowledge of the time.

RE: Help me pick a broadhead
 

Well, Art, it's a whole lot easier to say "we're acting in the name of safety" than it is to say "we're buckling to appease the masses and level the playing field." But then again, as a field officer, I'm sure you've seen hundreds, even thousands wounded or killedby exploding bowsat the local bow derby.

Rrrright. I'm sure everybody was ramping up their life insurance policy before every backyard 3d shoot.

Now, before you totally blow a gasket, let me assure you that I flex check my arrows before every shot. I also do not subject these arrows to un-necessary abuse (only shoot them at separate spots, and use my heavy GT 5575arrows for thelion's shareof practice shots). I've made my sight marks - I know they're accurate. I check them all with a few shots at every range, and I put the pixy sticks away. I have some old telephone poles that I use to play in the yard. It's not like I'm standing there saying "Hmmm... Let's see if I can blow up this arrow.."

It's like this - unless you've seen this setup in action, I really don't think you can accurately comment on its quality or safety. Put it this way, people aren't running for cover when I draw it back, and I shoot with some pretty sensible guys.