RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

This is not a "hunting" subject IMO...........it is a science subject.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

No it's not. It's a smoke and mirrors show. It's ashow set up to arrive at the desired conclusion and totally say, it's a miracle.[8D]

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

I was being polite............I like Nick and have spoken with him in private.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

If you are not using some sort of scent-elimination product you will never realize your own potential as a deer hunter..

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Agreed.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Oh I use something. I use Whitelightning spray eliminatior on me and everything I carry, soap and water, unscented deordorant and the WIND. I hunt hard hunted spooky deer and do OK.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Good old baking soda, and it's been proven by science.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Atlas,
I read and reread your post on the chemical make up of sweat. There's no denying you have done your homework.
You brought up some thought provoking information.

Let me ask you a question in layman's terms so the not so chemically astute(sp) can understand your answer. And if you would, keep the answer not so technical.

Let's say you are going to your treestand in late October. You have dressed in Scent-Lok outer garments(hypothetically) and have your Under Aurmor and possibly a mid layer on under it all. You work up a little sweat.
Your body gives off body odor AND your sweat glands give off some of the oils and protiens you spoke of in your list.

Scent-Lok is adborbing your odor. At the same time SOME(not all) of the oils and protiens are clinging to your undergarments , not all reaching the layer of Scent-Lok. The ones that do, get trapped in the surface area of the carbon. The SL is Adsorbing ONLY your odor.
Scent-Lok is designed , as we all know to adsorb odorVAPOR primarily.
So the effectiveness of your suit is now deminished by some percent , we cannot determine because the surface area is filling.
Remembering the infinately large surface area we have to work with and the deminished amount of oils and protiens getting to the SL fabric. Let's go out on a limb and say the oils have used a percentage of the surface area that I'll LET YOU GIVE A NUMBER TO.

So after 40 hours of use you toss it in the dryer and eliminate most of the odor molecules. After a few weeks of the same scenario occuring you do as the Manufacturer recommends and toss it in the washer...to wash out the oils and residues and strat over with an almost pristine suit.(We know that these compoent's can be removed by washing just as any other camo fabric.)Scent-Lok recommends more frequent washings if you are hunting in warmer climates and also recommends washing the Headcover more frequently because you are breathing constantly into it and it's carbon gets full quicker.

There is no denying that the oils , protiens and other components of sweat get to the carbon. They can be washed out.
And I ask you , because I don't know , do all these compounds have an odor associated w/ them? Or are they part of the chemical make up of sweat thathas no odor in and of themselves?
The EMA's used in the testing replicate the ODOR of sweat. Capturing the other compounds is not(I don't think) a concern unless you will never wash your suit.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

First of all I would not be wearing Under Armour but that is a whole other thread. Seriously though your story above has about a 1,000 different variables in it that would be useless to speculate about.......if you are gonna do that you may as well bring in the carbon content of the suit, the air flow in, through, and around the garment and any and all environmental variables including humidity, rain, or air quality. Just too vague to expect good info to come from.


The washings are what "they" claim is a major factor in reducing the lifespan of the suit........and you aren't gonna "wash" those substances out of carbon no matter what anyone tells you.


I'm afraid you misunderstand carbon adsorption.........it doesn't get "dirty" and then "clean" by washing. It's contents are bonded to the molecule and are not "washed" out.

Yes. The study I referenced was on human odor.........not sweat.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Atlas,
I'm not qiute sure I understand why you cannot wash oils and protein off the carbon when you can wash these things out of cotton fabric.
I do not remember any reference to the carbon permenantly bonding to these substances unless I missed something. Does the carbon bond to anything or merely hold it in it's pores? Can you give me something to reference?

I don't think the scenario I laid out was anything different than what would occur on any hunt. Leaving the weather out of the equation does this not sound typical? And is humidity that critical a factor to the adsorbtion?

Something I would also like ask.
In the post you listed the many components of human sweat. You statad these are a mixture ofvolitle organiccompounds. We also know that carbon is ineffective at removing Minerals,salts and disolved inorganic compounds.
CarbonIS effective at removing volitle organic compounds from the air or vapor. (ref:Wikipedia)
When these components areseperated so to speakand the others left to pass through the carbon , do they have an odor of thier own considering they are no longer the same compound when they were produced?

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

I will never understandhow people who have never used carbon suits can claim they don't work.One of the reasons I come to this site is to get advise from hunters that have used products that I may be interested in based on their PERSONAL experience. For someone who has never used themto come on here and sayCarbon suits don't work is like someone who has never useddeer scents claimingthey don't work.I don't know the science behind Carbon Suits, but I do know from personal experience THEY WORK!

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Great marketing video! ANY study/survey conducted by a 3rd pary that is hired by the manufactuer/sample will be bias.
There are independent 3rd party organizations that conduct research, but I do not think that they would focus on a study of activated carbon for hunting purposes. No organizations are motivated to disprove this theory for lack of any gain, however the entire industry (hunting) would like to PROVE it because everyone from celebrity hunters, to cabelas, to local pro shops are making money off this stuff.
It is what it is, and people killed deer before this stuff was around. Also some of the people in the videos just sound like idiots...."I shot this buck at 17 yards and he never knew I was there! Thank you ScentLok..."

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

You can have all that stuff on and your breath will still get you.
Were humans we stink plain and simple. Some more then others.
Play the wind, wind , wind.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

This is precisely why having this conversation is near impossible.

Like I said earlier I don't want to hijack this thread or take away from Nick's efforts to bring the info here so I am not gonna get into massive debates in this thread.......just not the place for it IMO. Hope you understand archer58.

I will continue to post comments or questions for Nick as I read more of the site.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Many of us do have extensive experience with carbon, science, and chemistry........which is what the effectiveness of the suit depends on.So, you are getting advice from people who have PERSONAL experience with the product in question.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

That's why they sell the odor-removing gum! ;)[8D]

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

And if they can next year convince you that deer have started growling(oh wait, they did that one)..................... well to finish the story, they'll make a Growler Call so you can hunt like the big boys. LOL You want some gum... eat an apple.

P.S. Carbon and water don't really go well together. I'd like to see the amount of loss of carbon from one suit with one washing. I'm going to tell you, it's a lot of carbon gone down the drain. They used to tell us, NO NEED TO WASH IT. Carbon/Darco or whatever cheap brand they use doesn't go with water. The reasons you can't wash fatty acids out is they are trapped in the chambers of the carbon. Those near the surface may come out. When the garment is dried those that remain are left behind because they don't vaporize. The suit degrades quickly with use in warm or sweaty conditions.....especially with washing.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Hey Scent-Lok G.Designer, do you have a purpose on this site other than convincing us all to buy your product with paid third party studies...

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Scentlok is a major sponsor of HNI:
As a representative of a company helping to pay the bills so that everyone has a free site to discuss our passions I think Scentlok and Scentlok G. Designeris free to promote and attempt to educate the members on the benefits of theirproducts all that they want.

Open discussion and debate of products and their effectiveness is certainly welcome.....it's how we learn butthe people who enjoy this free site might be better servedif they understand what drives it before they speak.

I for one welcome manufacturer and sponsor participation on the forums, it helps everyone involved .........the members can hear what the manufacturers have to offer and ultimately decide what works for them, and the manufacturers can get valuable feedback in what we as the hunting consumers look for in a product.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

This is a hunting discussion site Matt, not a "let the sponsor convince you to buy their stuff" site.
True, they sponsor this site, and thus indirectly allow you to have your moderator post, but, if this is going to be the situation and sponsors are going to post away with "studies" and "claims" then there should be a seperate forum for that.
You know, as well as I, that the only reason that this has popped up here was because there are a lot of nay sayers concerning the effectivness of Scent Lok in this forum. Maybe wind got back to Scent Lok that this was occuring, and they "had" to do something about it...
Either way, I think if you are going to set a standard and let this happen, it should happen someplace other than the Bowhunting forum, after all, what does this have to do with Bowhunting, I would say general hunting would be more appropriate location...

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Members are free to provide whatever criticisms they want about a product and it's effectiveness and are encouraged to participate in civil debate.........but calling out a sponsor, or attempting to decidefor them and or HNI what is and isn't appropriate for a given forum is not the business of the members and I would discourage that behavior.
I would suggest that you allow us as moderators and adminto make the decisions on the forums,and simply respect them.

This isn't up for debate, if you (and by you I mean the membership as a whole) are interested in thetopic or products please participate in the discussion, if you are not and have a problem with how it is presented I recommend that you simply move on to another.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

As to what I look for in a scent containing suit:


Anything less is not going to get the job done.


Bloodhounds can track the car a person has been abducted in by the skin cells that slough off.

Any exposed skin is going to slough cells and scent.

Carbon is CONSTANTLY absorbing odors, even when you aren't wearing it. This limits it's life expectancy. How are you storing your suit?

Most carbon filters (air, water, aquarium applications) are considered disposable, rather thanregenerative (marketing or reality?).

Do I think Scentlok works? Well, I really doubt that it prevents deer from being able to wind you. It might lessen it, but not prevent it.

What I think this product (and tons of other products on the market) does is provide the buyer with confidence. When it comes to archery hunting, confidence can be a huge asset. I had a ten year old compound bow restrung one fall and proceeded to harvest a nice 10 point with it. I think it was mostly due to my new found confidence in my equipment. So anything you buy that boosts your confidence is huge plus.

All said, I have other "confidence booster" equipment needs before I buy into the Scentlok dogma.

This is America and the choice is yours.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

To be fair, you can't use that arguement against scent lok. The reason those filters become useless is the plugging of them by solids(mud, poop and other junk)filtered out of the water.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

5-6-7 pages later you decide not to hijack? Gee Thanks.

Atlas I'm sure your well educated and knowledgable on many topics. But your presentation over the years has proved that your a "hater". If it's even somewhat fashionable your gonna slam it. Be it Book, Bow, or other Product.
I'm certainly not one to say you need to be a yes-man. But if you just posted a differring view without the need to commentand quote relentlessly..you would find yourselfmore accepted. I don't dislike you (not that you care) but when I seeProffesionals coming onto the site such as the Author or The Designerand you just try and beat them to a pulp it does the board a dis-service.I for one, welcome these people, and look forward to interesting discussions with a person in the Industry. Someone who directly puts products out there for us.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

You should actually read the thread because I tried to avoid getting off topic way back on page 3 when it was starting.........the hijack comment is nothing more then a repeat attempt......and you're welcome.


I shoot 2 Bowtechs, use a Summit stand, have a WB rest, have just about every gadget under the sun, own and read numerous books, and am always looking for something new that WORKS. How in the world you could call someone like that a "hater" of anything "fashionable" is beyond me.


At least you got that part right.


I have done nothing of the sort............where did I show anything but respect for Nick in this thread??.......I have been very nice in my posting and simply asked a few questions. You are way off base.

As for the "author" he couldn't handle someone not liking his book........well sorry, I didn't. It's not the end of the world,deal with it.


So do I.

RE: Scent-Lok Science Site
 

Atlas,

Thanks for taking your personal time to take a look at the study. I trust that your conclusions would be my conclusions. I for one am done taking any more of my time to discuss this topic. People are hopless and willing to be taken advantage of. So be it.

The best scent suit I've seen mentioned so far is the space suit. That would likely work if you could keep it quiet.

Tom