Quality Hunting
 

The antler restriction thread got me thinking ..... do you define "Quality Hunting" by rack size? I am concerned that we are trying to legislate deer hunting too much.... opinions seem to vary regionaly and with the hunter's experience level ... where does it stop? Are we becoming ....... far left in our thinking? More restrictions for a better hunting experience????[:o]

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Would I like to shoot a big racked buck? Absolutely. Does rack size define quality hunting? Absolutely not. We have restrictions here in MO and it ticks me off. Let me first say I am NOT against anyone who has self imposed limits on what they will or won't shoot.....More power to you.

I could go on for days, but I'll keep this as brief as possible. I talked w/ a deer biologist the other day, and we kind of cornered him, saying the heard wasn't what they say it is.....He hum hawed around a bit, then agreed saying there wasn't the population they say there is. They imposed those restrictions as a method of taking more does to keep the pop. in check. Things don't make sense here. In somecounties with the restrictions, you can only shoot 1 doe???? Why is that I wonder if the idea was to shoot MORE does???????? Know what it is? We figured it out, and he "kind of" admited it.....Insurance companies are putting pressure on them because of the deer/vehicle collisions. Can you believe this stuff??? An insurance company is dictating OUR deer herd!!!! [:@] Don't know why I'm surprised, they dictate most anything anyway....

Like I said, I could go on for days but personally, I don't define a quality hunt by how many racks I see over 140"......Though I wouldn't qualify that as a poor quality hunt either...[&:]

RE: Quality Hunting
 

PT:

In my opinion....."Quality Hunting" has absolutely nothing to do with rack size......or even racks, for that matter. I had PLENTY of quality hunts, last year.....where I never saw a buck.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

In addition to the Ins. companies wanting the herd thinned, I think MO was afraid if they didn't do something to grow bigger bucksthey would lose a lot of hunters to IL and Kansas. Specially out of state hunters, they go where the big boys are.

It is just like everything else in life. IT IS ABOUT THE MONEY!!!!!!!

RE: Quality Hunting
 

To me quality hunting is the ability to hunt deer under thier natural movements, free from traffic sounds and other distractios. It is the ability to hunt a herd that is healthy(body weight, sex ratio, age class). I believe when you've met all those, you can havea quality hunt regardless of what you choose to shoot.


Ok that's the ideal situation. Real life is the deer are pressured heavily. Many areas age class structure among bucks is almost non existant. You've got patchy little woodlots cut by roads and developement. Regulation is needed to try and privide a "quality" herd. I wish there was no need for regulation, but without widespread self restraint, it is unfortunately needed. I also think that people confuse AR with "trophy" growing. That is so far from the truth. In MOST places a deer becomes legal far before it becomes a "trophy" class. The AR just give them a little boost when they are young and dumb.

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I do not believe rack size has anything to do with a "Quality Hunt". I personally believe anytime I am out in the woods its "Quality Time" and since I am hunting, it makes it a "Quality Hunt". We don't have a lot of big bucks here in FL so it really doesn't matter to me.

Now I do agree with the restrictions we have here in FL. I mean if we could just kill all of the bucks we see, there definitely wouldn't be any of those "big" bucks out here.

Anyway, just my .02.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

I think quality hunt has nothing to do with rack size. Like mentioned above, the hunter is the one who rates the quality of the hunt. Seeing acouple does and maybe a yote would be a quality hunt for a lot of people.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

The quality of hunting has nothing to do with rack size, species, sightings etc. Quality Hunting is available everytime you go afield.

I think you're refering to Quality Killing..and that's an individual thing. I won't dredge that up at this time.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

PreacherTony,
I do not define quality hunting by rack size. Never did , never will.
Quality hunting, to me at least, is having shot opportunity at an animal I want to take. I have self imposed standards I stick to(not trophy standards)and I hunt public land.I'd rather shoot a doe, than a spike or 4 pt. I'd rather witness a hard chase by a buck, than no rutting activity at all. I like to see how close that chipmonk is going to get if I don't move.
I love to draw down on a deer that came to my grunt call. That's quality.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Something else to ponder. Bow onlyareas and short rifle seasons(as in Ohio as well as other states)are also a form of regulation. To what end?

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Quality hunting to me has nothing to do with getting a buck with a big rack or even a needing to get a buck for that matter. Would the creme dela creme be getta a big boy, absolutely, but I thoroughly enjoy harvesting does as well. Most of my time hunting is not actually harvesting anything, yet I still love it for many reasons that I do not think I need to state. I do see merit in having antler restrictions, as I do not think that little bucks should be taken in many cases.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

I agree with all posts so far, and quite frankly, I am relieved! I just want to hunt the way I have always ..... with very little legislation. Davidmil mention how a 1 1/2 year old forkie is bigger than most does .... I agree, and would shoot the forkie ...more meat .... I would not think the guy that would not shoot him, but shoot the doe instead, wrong or foolish, as that is his choice.

I am glad to hear the responses so far ..... The other side should be chiming in soon .... ;)

RE: Quality Hunting
 

As usual, I will stray from the herd. I DONT think you have to choose between amonster buck, or nothing! Balance. MY OPINION, but I will never understand why anyone (other than a young hunter) would shoot a 4-point whitetail when he couldbe patient and see a 10-point.

"Quality hunt"? You still saw the 4-point and a few does, but tomorrow you might see that 10-point you saw during your pre-seasonscouting. Remember? The almost-shooter you passed on last year??? He is now a 10-point and makes your heart beat a little faster than than 1.5 yearold 4-point.

Quality hunt? Beautiful sunrise, cold crisp morning, squirrells running around. "Snap"- twig breaking behind you. What do you REALLY want to see as youslowly turn around??? That is the answer to your question.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

I don't feel that killing a big buck constitutes a quality hunt. I am for antler restrictions just so the bucks have a chance to grow up past 1 1/2 yo. To me a quality hunt is any time you can spend afeild with family, friends or just yourself. There is so much more to hunting than just the kill.

Good Hunting
Jeff

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Dave ... it's not like that everywhere ... not where I hunt ... most guys never even see a 10 pointer, let alone get a chance at one ...

RE: Quality Hunting
 

I totally understand Dave's stand, and I would love tokill a trophy buck instead of a four pointer or a doe.
I guess Ijust look at things differently. My dad started taking usdeer hunting every year at a young age, andhe taught us all heknew about it, which, not to be disrespectful to him, wasn't very much at all.In all the years he took us, he NEVERbagged a deer. Not even a doe.Still,every year, he would get so excited about the hunt. The "hunt", to him, was about family and friends being together in the outdoors. Drinking coffee in the wee hours of the morning, speculating on what might happen. Sitting around the campfire in the evenings talking about how the day had gone, what might happen tomorrow, and anything else we wanted to talk about.
To this day, the "hunt", to me, is about friends and family, comradeship, getting away from civilization and experiencing the great outdoors during the chase of the ever-elusive (at least for us) deer. It's about packing junk food and gear, inventorying, buying ammo, arrows and broadheads. It's about the anticipation of the hunt, preparation for the hunt and the excitement of being in the hunt.
I guess to me, there's a distinct separation between the "hunt" and the "kill". A trophy buck would be a great kill, and it would be a nice end to a hunt. I don't think my dad ever had a bad "hunt". He just never got a kill. I finally managed to kill a nice 8 point buck (my first ever) the last year my dad deer hunted before he died. You could see in his eyes that it made it one of his best hunts ever.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Wonderfully put LittleChief ...... thank you for sharing:) I think of my nice 8 pointer and how ,though I appreciated taking him, it was not my most memorable hunt, as I was on a new piece of land for the first time, and I got him in the first hour of hunting.

Quality hunting for me, is soooo much more than a huge rack, not that I wouldn't prefer shooting a monster 10, over a 160lb 1 1/2 year old 6 point, but that is such a small part of the whole ...

RE: Quality Hunting
 

PreacherTony,

I honestly believe that wherever you live, if you let the younger deer get older- they get bigger. It appears my opinion is being skewed here. This is not about kill vs. hunt! Who started that, anyway?Everyone here hasmentioned "quaility", and I couldnt agree more. You should be able to have a "quality hunt" without shooting anything, right? That isEXACTLY what I am saying!!!

Enjoy your time in the woods, let the younger deer walk,see big 10-point whitetail and have your "quality hunt". Show mea hunter that says "I hope I only see small, young 4-point deer today." That would be a ridiculous and dishonest statement!!!

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Assuming that someone could not have a "QuailtyHunt" while killing a young 4 point is equally rediculous.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

For me it is simple.

The deer moved passed me how I thought they would, I went into and left my stand without being notice or detected. I may have even had an opportunity to takea deer, but choose not too. Just being out in the woods is great, but a quality huntto me is; I met my most important goals everytime I go out.

1.Get to and from my stand undetected
2.I don't get busted in stand.
3.Had a good setup to take a whitetail(deer move how I thought they would)

If I go out and No 1 or 2is not achieved, well then it was not a quality hunt to me. I just tipped off the deer I want to kill whereI am hunting.

Yes I enjoyed being in the woods, but unless I meet my goals it is not a quality hunt.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Preacher Tony,

Quality hunting to me has nothing to do with the size of the rack. I get quality from preparing for each hunt from the boots I put on up to the hat I wear and the equipment I use. Planting food plots and watching them grow and provide for the animals and getting trail cam pics all add to the year round passion we call "hunting. " I think the conservation dept here in Missouri has been getting some pressure from various sources, as mobowhunter touched on. I keep hunting simple and impose my own standards for what I want, as long as its legal. Every day is a quality day when it comes to hunting. I would still like to take a B&C buck but if it doesn't happen I still get high quality.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

HuntinGUS,

I couldnt agree more! Everyone hunts for different reasons, and I hope youlet all the 10-points walk. (Ha! Ha!)

I enjoy the hunt. That is why I choose to let the smaller bucks walk. If it were all about the kill, I would shoot the first legal buck that walked by. Again, I firmly believe that any hunterwould choose the larger of two bucks. "Quality hunt", is of course, subjective. I just dont buy any scenerio that supports "smaller bucks are better for the herd." Thats absurd!

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The quality of the hunt depends on the hunter. What I want to shoot might not be what you want to shoot. Thats why I believe we have to be very careful NOT to over legislate this great sport.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

No chance in thatDave, but unlike you a lot of people do not need the headgear to have a quality hunt. A lot of people can shoot a 2 year old basket 6 or 8 and have the best hunt ever. When shared with good friends and family, it's all quality!

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easy gus, easy[8D]

I think you need to take him for a walk on those mountains you call hills;)

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It's Friday.......I guess I am a little squirrelly.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

See what you started, PreacherTony!!!!!! (Ha! Ha!)

Gus, for whatever reason, you have it in your head that I only consider it a "quality hunt" if a monster buck is killed. Please read my posts, apparently you have not. Where do you get that from? Funny, though.

I dont believe anyone would agree with you that "smaller is better". If so, stand and be counted. My only point was that I believe (IMHO) if given the opportunity, a hunter would PREFER a mature 10-point over your basket-racked 4-pt. If I am off base here, let me have it, guys. If you only get to see one deer in the morning, would you really want it to be a 4-point, or a 10???

RE: Quality Hunting
 

That is not what I think at all, but you have made it clear that killing a small 4 point would not be quality in your eyes. Seeing them would be, but shooting them would not.

Preference and quality are two different things.All I am saying is a quality hunt can occur even if a samll buck is killed.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Dave,
You're absolutely right. No-one that I can think of would prefer a four point to a ten point. When I hear a deer headed my way, I'd much rather have it turn out to be a moster buck (that's never happened to me yet, but I'm waiting.)
Preacher's original question was "Do YOU define quality hunting by rack size?" I don't, and from what I read in your posts, neither do you. We would both define a quality of a trophyby rack size, but not the quality of a hunt. As with many of the debates I've seen around here, it all boils down to what you personally, are trying to accomplish during your hunt. Myself, I'd love to bag a massive 10 or 12 pointer, but I've never set out with that goal in mind.
I'm willing to try, though. If you have any buckslike thaton your ranch, maybe I'll be one of your customers and you can show me what it feelslike to see or shoota buck worth putting a tape to. I wouldn't know. I've never hunted in a location with that kind of deer.

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My thoughts exactly. The quality of the huntis the act of the pursuit,not the kill.

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J nailed my point here ...... if you read the antler restriction posts, you will see that many agree to it so they could shoot bigger deer ... thus improving the quality of the hunt, or deer to them, ...... is there a difference? Are we willing to give up our right to shoot the deer we want for a bigger rack? ...That's what scares me ....

RE: Quality Hunting
 

They installed an antler restriction in Pennsylvania, and quite honestly, it was the best thing that ever happened.

There were a few ill side-effects, however. Since the restrictions were implemented, everybody sorta got rack fever, and became mega greedy, locking down every acre of huntable woods in the Commonwealth. Posters went up like wallpaper. Poaching has become a huge problem - more jacklighting than ever (bigger racks), and more ground checking than ever (guys who shoot a buck, and count the points once they get up to it). I've found no less than 20 ground-checked bucks laying in the woods since the AR's have been implemented. As a result, I've lost all faith in people (not that I had that much to begin with).

In the early 90's, I could go through the farmland and ask for permission to hunt wherever I wanted, and probably met 80-90% success. Now, you're lucky to have 5-10% success, and you're virtually guaranteed no access on the best spots unless you do some serious name-dropping or schmoozing. And I can schmooze with the best of 'em.

Example, I spent the entire day last Sunday trying to track down new hunting spots - most of mine are either overhunted, heavily poached, leased off to the highest bidder, posted for exclusive hunting by the landowner, or posted due to illegal ATV trespasser traffic. Back to the story, I banged on at least 15 doors, and only got permission to hunt 3 places, a grand total of 525 acres (125 ac., 50 ac., and 350 ac.).

Problem for the average Joe is that they don't have enough sense to seek out a hunting spot in March, and lots of people don't know how to be nice. Instead, they're running around like chickens with their heads cut offon the day before rifle season, banging doors unsuccessfully, getting frustratedand smarting off to people (making it worse for everyone).

We're currently going through a phase where a lot of the old guard is hanging it up, disillusioned with the whole process. It'll probably take 10 or so years to stabilize, but it's all for the best. We have far too many hunters packed into far too few huntable acres.

Pennsylvania is very unique in a lot of different ways. A case study in hunting/hunter behavior, if you will. Even in this "worst-case-scenario," the antler restrictions proven their worth.I've got pages and pages of pictures of deer taken before the AR's and after. Proof positive that it works. Like anything else, though, there is a downside.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

Some of the comments were of that nature , but remember the reason I stated for AR in NYwas to bring the herd in balance. Not to create a trophy state. That is not their intention.

RE: Quality Hunting
 

AR's do not produce trophy deer. They also really don't impact the size of what you can shoot really all that much. Nobody is making anyone hunt for trophy deer with AR. All AR do is say because not enough people can retrain from shooting every 1st year buck they can, it has to be legislated to try and provide a better age structure for a healthy herd.

All you people say the rack size is not important for a "quality" hunt and you don't have to kill a buck to have a "quality" hunt, yet if it doesn't matter so much then why do so many people shoot little bucks, when it supposedly doesn't matter to them?

RE: Quality Hunting
 

I am going fishing. I sure hope I catch a little one today!

RE: Quality Hunting
 

AR's certainly DO produce trophy deer. If they didn't, why are so many ranch's thriving on trophy fees?? Absolutely AR's produce trophy bucks, I'm not sure how anyone would think it wouldn't. We all know as a buck ages he becomes harder and harder to kill. So, add in an AR, get the deer older, and guess what?? Bigger deer equivalent to trophy deer.

Why do I shoot a little buck if it supposedly doesn't matter to me? Well, that statement was twisted in it's context a little bit. What doesn't matter is if I shoot a big buck, or a small buck.....I could care less, actually. In fact, I'm gonna just come right out with it.....I'm gonna get reemed for this one I'm sure, but I would rather shoot a small buck than no buck at all. People ask all the time, "Why do you hunt?" We see it here quite often as well. The politically correct answer is "To be one w/ nature. To see game, get them close, and enjoy watching them walk by me undetected."

You know what I say to that? If you aren't hunting in hopes of SHOOTING something, you aren't hunting, you're nature watching. And that's fine. Nothing wrong with that at all. Everyone has to decide what they want. Some of ya'll are ok w/ not shooting a deer if it doesn't meet your expectations. I'm not gonna argue that, ridicule you in any fashion. By all means, if that's what YOU want to do, enjoy. All I ask in return is that I not be ridiculed because I WILL shoot a small buck. Why am I wrong for doing that??

(disclaimer; I am not trying to insinuate that someone ridiculed me for my choices, my wording was meant in general terms.)

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body size ... opportunity .... hunting .... we all can't spend countless hours in the field like some of you can .....

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Dave ... you were doing so well .... don't start mocking now ;) No one said they were hoping to shoot a little one .....

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RE: Quality Hunting
 

Sorry, Preacher,

Wasnt really mocking, I was simply providing an example.