Please......right up front....let's not get into a "shooting little bucks, or not" discussion. I'm really just wondering what the "mystique" or allure is about a "buck".

My opinion.......there are FAR craftier and woods savvy does than a LOT of bucks. But most hunters would feel more satisfied in the taking of "A" buck. Not "THE" buck....."ANY" buck.

With QDM....I think we're seeing this trend start to change a little.....but how many times have you heard guys say, when posting...."It was just a doe"? Too many.

Are we really fooling ourselves? Do we think (as a community) that the yearling buck is a greater "trophy" than the doe?

Why is this? Are we not smarter than that? Who are we fooling?

I kind of see what you're saying. If a guy wants to shoot the first, second, and thirdthings that walks by, go for it. Some people could care less about what it is they shoot; they're in it for the relaxation and the sheer fun of it.

But I always wonder about the 'as long as it's a buck' line. A few years ago, I had a doe and a young buck walk by, and I shot the doe(actually could of shot them both, the buck stuck around for a bit) My reason for doing this was unfathomable to some of the other people on the property. One time my uncle shot a yearling spike that was with some older does, but since he could see buttons, let 'er rip. As long as it's a buck.

I'm not by any means in the management crowd. The area I hunt ispacked with hunters who could care less about 'next year'. I don't really care what a guy shoots, as long as he finds them and eats them. but having certain notions on what is better to shoot puzzles me.

Yes, il......you understood my question, exactly.

I know what you mean. I think that I was in the "as long as it's a buck" mindset too, and I believe that for me,it relates to growing up hunting public land in Missouri and Arkansas. Not once did I get to hunt where it was legal to take a doe. Maybe it leaves an imprint that stays with you. This past year was the first time that I took a doe. I got my buck in Missouri, then hunted in Hardeman County in Tennesee. There, you can take up to three does per day. I only took two, but I got a lot of satisfaction (not to mention a lot of deer steaks) by taking them.

Old habits are hard to die. When I was growing up we had no where near the deer numbers we have today. I mean most of you people just don't understand how far the deer population has changed in 50 years. If you shot a doe you were a crook, criminal, lower than pond scum bum. You would never be allowed to hunt anyones land(in those days you could hunt just about everywhere) or be invited over for a BBQ. You were real sleeze. Even today after all the growth etc, I don't like to shoot does. I will if that's the only choice I have, but I'd just as soon shoot a little basketrack 15 inch buck any day. Oh if someone has a plan and wants to limited it to this size, that big and all that I'll follow their plan. If I'm in some place like Ohio, I'll eat a tag before I'd shoot a little buck. IN fact, I've done that the last two trips there. But around home. If a nice fat little basket rack shows up, he's probably going to be dead. He's packing about 30 percent more meat than most of the does Besides that, where I hunt so do others that will shoot ANYTHING that's legal and some that aren't. If I'm on a big deer I'll pass a lot of small ones, but then some days I just say, you know, I'm shooting this one.

9 years of hunting and no buck on my wall, lots of does hit the ground but still lack that buck. Now I want one

David:

I know what you mean......because I could count on one hand the number of deer I saw growing up....and I grew up on a farm (raising tobacco).

Our deer pop. has risen FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT in the last 30 years. We need to manage the growth aspect, now.

I think some of it has to do with "proof" of actually shooting a deer. Some like pictures, others like to display all the antlers in the cabin, den, garage, etc. I won't get into the QDM agruement at all, but one thing that does bother me is when someone shoots a spike, fork, etc and then throws the antlers in a box never to be seen again. Thats when shooting a doe would have been just as good IMO.

I bet if you look at the breakdown of guys who consistantly shoot "yearling or smallish" bucks (I'm not talking about younghunters first or first couple of bucks) it is probably more our generation GMMAT. It's the way we were brought into hunting, at least in the Ohio, PA, NY areas. A buck was a buck and that was better than any doe. Many of us have evolved and re-learned on our own, that this is not the case. QDM has been a part of this re-learning process.

Now as to why we were originally taught this..I have to reflect on my first hunt in PA as a kid (year 1978). We (Dad and I) saw 82 deer opening day..7 were bucks, The biggest buckwas a fork horn. So hunting then, it was "easy to get a doe"..where is the challenge? One doe got so close to jumping the dead fall we were behind I reached out and touched her. We didn't understand then, that the herd was suffering because we didn't take does, There were no (or few) big bucks because the woods barely offered enough nutrition to sustain all the deer it held.

I know that many people still hold this value to be true.."I got my Buck" they can claim at the lodge. It's just a mind-set..some have evolved..some are stuck in the old days.

New hunters are taught these things now..and understand them from the start. They have Hunter Ed Classes and DVD's and the Web. They have more access than we had. We had to forget what we learned andgain a new understanding.

GMMAT... you come to the Adirondacks and there are still areas that does are protected. Even me with non resident tags are not allowed to apply for doe permits in most of the areas I hunt. I get one doe tag I can use with the bow or the muzzleloader. There are still areas that don't need herd thinning. I know that's not the norm, it there are areas. So if I'm only able to shoot one deer with a bow, well why shouldn't it be a nice 150 poundbasketrack 8 point vs an 80-100 pound weakling doe. Even though I'm moving to NY around the end of April I'll still have to buy a non resident tag. NY makes you establish residency for 12 months before they allow you to buy a resident tag. It sucks, but that's their law. Of course I still have to pay their outrageous property taxes.LOL So again this fall, no doe tags, look out little buck. I have an up this year though. I didn't get to hunt and fill my regular season bow and muzzleloader tags last fall so I have two tags I can fill the last 4 days of Sept from last year. They'll probably get punched with the first nice does I see.