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WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Please......right up front....let's not get into a "shooting little bucks, or not" discussion. I'm really just wondering what the "mystique" or allure is about a "buck".
My opinion.......there are FAR craftier and woods savvy does than a LOT of bucks. But most hunters would feel more satisfied in the taking of "A" buck. Not "THE" buck....."ANY" buck. With QDM....I think we're seeing this trend start to change a little.....but how many times have you heard guys say, when posting...."It was just a doe"? Too many. Are we really fooling ourselves? Do we think (as a community) that the yearling buck is a greater "trophy" than the doe? Why is this? Are we not smarter than that? Who are we fooling? |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I kind of see what you're saying. If a guy wants to shoot the first, second, and thirdthings that walks by, go for it. Some people could care less about what it is they shoot; they're in it for the relaxation and the sheer fun of it.
But I always wonder about the 'as long as it's a buck' line. A few years ago, I had a doe and a young buck walk by, and I shot the doe(actually could of shot them both, the buck stuck around for a bit) My reason for doing this was unfathomable to some of the other people on the property. One time my uncle shot a yearling spike that was with some older does, but since he could see buttons, let 'er rip. As long as it's a buck. I'm not by any means in the management crowd. The area I hunt ispacked with hunters who could care less about 'next year'. I don't really care what a guy shoots, as long as he finds them and eats them. but having certain notions on what is better to shoot puzzles me. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Yes, il......you understood my question, exactly.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I know what you mean. I think that I was in the "as long as it's a buck" mindset too, and I believe that for me,it relates to growing up hunting public land in Missouri and Arkansas. Not once did I get to hunt where it was legal to take a doe. Maybe it leaves an imprint that stays with you. This past year was the first time that I took a doe. I got my buck in Missouri, then hunted in Hardeman County in Tennesee. There, you can take up to three does per day. I only took two, but I got a lot of satisfaction (not to mention a lot of deer steaks) by taking them.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Old habits are hard to die. When I was growing up we had no where near the deer numbers we have today. I mean most of you people just don't understand how far the deer population has changed in 50 years. If you shot a doe you were a crook, criminal, lower than pond scum bum. You would never be allowed to hunt anyones land(in those days you could hunt just about everywhere) or be invited over for a BBQ. You were real sleeze. Even today after all the growth etc, I don't like to shoot does. I will if that's the only choice I have, but I'd just as soon shoot a little basketrack 15 inch buck any day. Oh if someone has a plan and wants to limited it to this size, that big and all that I'll follow their plan. If I'm in some place like Ohio, I'll eat a tag before I'd shoot a little buck. IN fact, I've done that the last two trips there. But around home. If a nice fat little basket rack shows up, he's probably going to be dead. He's packing about 30 percent more meat than most of the does Besides that, where I hunt so do others that will shoot ANYTHING that's legal and some that aren't. If I'm on a big deer I'll pass a lot of small ones, but then some days I just say, you know, I'm shooting this one.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
9 years of hunting and no buck on my wall, lots of does hit the ground but still lack that buck. Now I want one:D
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
David:
I know what you mean......because I could count on one hand the number of deer I saw growing up....and I grew up on a farm (raising tobacco). Our deer pop. has risen FOUR HUNDRED AND FIFTY PERCENT in the last 30 years. We need to manage the growth aspect, now. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I think some of it has to do with "proof" of actually shooting a deer. Some like pictures, others like to display all the antlers in the cabin, den, garage, etc. I won't get into the QDM agruement at all, but one thing that does bother me is when someone shoots a spike, fork, etc and then throws the antlers in a box never to be seen again. Thats when shooting a doe would have been just as good IMO.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: GMMAT Are we really fooling ourselves? Do we think (as a community) that the yearling buck is a greater "trophy" than the doe? Now as to why we were originally taught this..I have to reflect on my first hunt in PA as a kid (year 1978). We (Dad and I) saw 82 deer opening day..7 were bucks, The biggest buckwas a fork horn. So hunting then, it was "easy to get a doe"..where is the challenge? One doe got so close to jumping the dead fall we were behind I reached out and touched her. We didn't understand then, that the herd was suffering because we didn't take does, There were no (or few) big bucks because the woods barely offered enough nutrition to sustain all the deer it held. I know that many people still hold this value to be true.."I got my Buck" they can claim at the lodge. It's just a mind-set..some have evolved..some are stuck in the old days. New hunters are taught these things now..and understand them from the start. They have Hunter Ed Classes and DVD's and the Web. They have more access than we had. We had to forget what we learned andgain a new understanding. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
GMMAT... you come to the Adirondacks and there are still areas that does are protected. Even me with non resident tags are not allowed to apply for doe permits in most of the areas I hunt. I get one doe tag I can use with the bow or the muzzleloader. There are still areas that don't need herd thinning. I know that's not the norm, it there are areas. So if I'm only able to shoot one deer with a bow, well why shouldn't it be a nice 150 poundbasketrack 8 point vs an 80-100 pound weakling doe. Even though I'm moving to NY around the end of April I'll still have to buy a non resident tag. NY makes you establish residency for 12 months before they allow you to buy a resident tag. It sucks, but that's their law. Of course I still have to pay their outrageous property taxes.LOL So again this fall, no doe tags, look out little buck. I have an up this year though. I didn't get to hunt and fill my regular season bow and muzzleloader tags last fall so I have two tags I can fill the last 4 days of Sept from last year. They'll probably get punched with the first nice does I see.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
To me, seeing bucks are a really good sign as well as in other ares. I think people want "the buck" because he is the harder one to shoot between them and does. it takes a lot of concentration to shoot a big buck. In my opinion, does are "dumber" than bucks because they are not hunted as hard as the bucks. But you have to remember, every deer is a trophy, big or small
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
davidmil titleAndStar(13453,0,false,false,"","") Addicted to HNI  [align=center][/align] Posts: 13453 Joined: 2/12/2003 From: Ellicott City Maryland Status: offline  Dang new guy shows up with all the answers??:D Welcome Back David:) |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I've already told my son that I'm mounting (not in the GERM way, mind you) his first bow kill......and I've also been pushing how pretty a doe mount would be. He's 14....and I'm trying to instill that hunting does, is just fine!
I am 42, though....and although I'm a "new" DEERhunter.....the old lessons Iused to hearfrom deer hunters when i was grwoing up....are still in me. I'm going to take does, this year......in numbers, I hope. I'm not saying I won't take a buck.....or that I won't take 2 (HIGHLY doubtful I'll take more than 1....IF I take 1).The does are plentiful here.....and that's what is called for. It's also NO SMALL FEAT to take a cagey doe. Funny..... I ran into a friend who leases the 252 acre tract that backs up to the county land (250 acres) that I hunt adjacent to. He also leases land that is in an adjacent county that holds BIG deer (for these parts). He shared with me that on the other side of where I hunt.......he only hunted there a few times. He saw 46 deer in those few times. HE saw THIRTY-EIGHT BUCKS! If I didn't know this guy....I'd say he was smokin' something illegal. BUT......I believe him. Heck....those bucks will cruise during the rut....and it does nothing bu make me tingle with anticipation. I'm going to do the right thing by "my" (the herd "I" hunt) herd.....and get the ratio BETTER in-line. I'm also doing my part bydispelling old myths/mystiquesto my son and his hunting friends. There's NOTHING wrong with taking does.It's a responsibility.....and they're a trophy in their own right. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: GMMAT I've already told my son that I'm mounting (not in the GERM way, mind you) his first bow kill......and I've also been pushing how pretty a doe mount would be. He's 14....and I'm trying to instill that hunting does, is just fine! I am 42, though....and although I'm a "new" DEERhunter.....the old lessons Iused to hearfrom deer hunters when i was grwoing up....are still in me. I'm going to take does, this year......in numbers, I hope. I'm not saying I won't take a buck.....or that I won't take 2 (HIGHLY doubtful I'll take more than 1....IF I take 1).The does are plentiful here.....and that's what is called for. It's also NO SMALL FEAT to take a cagey doe. Funny..... I ran into a friend who leases the 252 acre tract that backs up to the county land (250 acres) that I hunt adjacent to. He also leases land that is in an adjacent county that holds BIG deer (for these parts). He shared with me that on the other side of where I hunt.......he only hunted there a few times. He saw 46 deer in those few times. HE saw THIRTY-EIGHT BUCKS! If I didn't know this guy....I'd say he was smokin' something illegal. BUT......I believe him. Heck....those bucks will cruise during the rut....and it does nothing bu make me tingle with anticipation. I'm going to do the right thing by "my" (the herd "I" hunt) herd.....and get the ratio BETTER in-line. I'm also doing my part bydispelling old myths/mystiquesto my son and his hunting friends. There's NOTHING wrong with taking does.It's a responsibility.....and they're a trophy in their own right. And good luck to your son on his first bow kill! Mount even a doe and he will have memories for life! One of my greatest memories was my first bow kill(5-point), and i really thank my dad for getting it mounted cause every morning i wake up and see that boy across my room and think of the memories i had of getting him. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
To me, seeing bucks are a really good sign as well as in other ares. I think people want "the buck" because he is the harder one to shoot between them and does. it takes a lot of concentration to shoot a big buck. In my opinion, does are "dumber" than bucks because they are not hunted as hard as the bucks. But you have to remember, every deer is a trophy, big or small I'm not picking on you at all........but this is the mindset I'm trying to dispel. Here's what I've learned in a short time hunting deer.... In MY area.....the does are plentiful. The problem with taking them is this......they're usually not alone. I've tried on SEVERAL occasions to take some of them.....and getting drawn back is a FEAT when there's multiple eyes and ears around. I just think we owe it to the future deer hunters to dispel this myth. Am I saying does are as hard to kill as bucks? Yes....and no. There are exceptions to MOST "rules". On "average", though.....where "I" hunt.....a doe is JUST as much a trophy as a YOUNG buck.....and likely HARDER to KILL. Yes....I'll SEE more does.....but that's just the beginning of the "hunt" (right, Greg/MO?). |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Now that I've "crossed over" I have a tough time understanding why I felt that way once. it was something that was just taught and ingrained into your head. You shoot a buck, any buck you see, cause its what you are supposed to do. The old time mindset is deeply intrenched in many places like PA, mich and NY. "I have to get MY buck". You shot a buck, didn't matter if it made you happy, you shot it cause you were supposed to. So many guys have boxes full of rack that they never look at or toss out.
One thing that i am hoping will catch on here in PA dealing with the antler restrictions is for guys to start passing on legal, but yet only 1 1/2 old bucks. It is no greater accomplishment to shoot a 1 1/2 old 7 pt, than it is to shoot a 1 1/2 old spike. People say that guys who wait on "trophy" class deer are obsessed with antlers. I think there is more obsession whena preson shoots a deer just for the sole fact that it HAS antlers. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
When I was growing up in Ohio it was a 1 deer a year state, so if you wanted to go after a nice buck you could not shoot a doe. I don't travel out of state for whitetails, and my dad has always been a mature buck hunter and not a"deer" hunter so I was too. Now, there are counties where you can take up to three deer. So, now I can and do (if I have a relatively empty freezer) take a doe every year because I love having the meat and it is just plain fun. However, if I have filled the freezer with elk or caribou or something, then I don't shoot a doe and gojust for a mature buck.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: rybohunter Now that I've "crossed over" I have a tough time understanding why I felt that way once. it was something that was just taught and ingrained into your head. You shoot a buck, any buck you see, cause its what you are supposed to do. The old time mindset is deeply intrenched in many places like PA, mich and NY. "I have to get MY buck". You shot a buck, didn't matter if it made you happy, you shot it cause you were supposed to. So many guys have boxes full of rack that they never look at or toss out. One thing that i am hoping will catch on here in PA dealing with the antler restrictions is for guys to start passing on legal, but yet only 1 1/2 old bucks. It is no greater accomplishment to shoot a 1 1/2 old 7 pt, than it is to shoot a 1 1/2 old spike. People say that guys who wait on "trophy" class deer are obsessed with antlers. I think there is more obsession whena preson shoots a deer just for the sole fact that it HAS antlers. Yes MI it runs deep about shooting the first one that walks in/by(In is for bait pile). I have slightly different view than most. It comes down to be able to execpt NOT getting a buck once in awhile. The thought of sitting around your club and saying I just shot a doe, scares some guys. It is our fault for putting some much emphases on killing a buck. I went through 3 times now, does not bother me, but the guys at my club sure like to raz me:D I can tell you with the 5 year run I am on, I am do[8D] |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Like davidmil already said, it used to be a BAD thing to shoot does . . . before the deer population exploded. We were allowed one tag with each weapon and I usually waited on a buck. When they eventually made us shoot does, I was uncomfortable with it. However, in the years since, I've become very comfortable with the idea - and I use does to fill my freezer before the rut kicks in.
However, I STILL WANT a huge buck each year for "braggin' rights." I purposely pass on all bucks that won't fit my personal standards. I've had consecutive years of going buckless because the bucks that offered me shots were small. I STILL had a freezer full of meat every year though because I got over my problem with shooting does. And since I don't shoot baby does either, the ones I pursued are often just as skilled - if not MORE skilled - at eluding me than some bucks. I have had several years when I hunted for a particular doe - different ones each time - and never connected. They can be very tough to kill. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: Germ |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
David....
I just went back and read your post I missed, earlier. I agree that the pops in some areas make it easier to make a decision as to which animal to take (or...HARDER to take the doe in the doe vs. buck choice). I can only relate to NC.....it's all I have "any" experience with. We have a GREAT deer population. It's really good. We can legally take 6 deer, here....and on one side of our state.....that includes FOUR bucks. One thing that will wake some hunters up.....is the new proposal in our state that will allow UNLIMITED doe tags to hunters on private lands. It's going to help ME....I know that. They're opening up the already liberal limits on does for a reason. We've got too many of them. It's time to re-educate some......educate others. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
all i do is bowhunt. the day i stop getting buck and doe fever while im at full draw is the day i stop bowhunting. i only have 1 pin on my bow and i only shoot at 25 yards weather its a buck or doe. i dont kill button bucks or fawns.
every buck i take his antlers go on my wall. where i hunt theres alot of deer and im happy with either a buck or doe. i hunt for meat not for sport. antlers are just a bonus. im all for harvesting doe and culling small bucks. some people say bucks are harder to kill than doe. i dont agree. if you spend as much time as i do in a treestand bowhunting then you will know that there is not a differnce. deer are always weary weather it a buck or doe. to answer your question what is it about a buck? its not that they are smarter, but they grow antlers and thats where the bragin rights in some people are. i on the other hand dont care on how many points all i care about is making a vital hit. all the deer i killed with a bow died in less that 30 seconds and i never had to do a track job. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
WHAT is it about a BUCK???? As I grew older and bow hunted more and more, I have gained a better understanding of what is best for the herd I hunt. I needto kill more does. Period. It helps hunting the rut and it makes the herd healthier imo. It will still be considered "ho-hum.....big deal!.........it's just a doe!" to a lot of people, but if you are hunting to please others, you are hunting for the wrong reason imo. Good thread GMMAT! |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
For myself, its just plain old fasination with antlers, I love em. I sit in the game room and just stare at em sometimes.
As for shooting does with archery gear!! I still get goosebumps, andlove trying to match wits with a smart doe. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
In ILL. we are lucky and can shoot unlimited does and 2 bucks, so we are choosie with our buck tags and we have tons of does, so we shoot does from Oct.1 til Oct 20. Then only buck hunt from then till December, dont want to shoot a doe thats in heat with a big ole buck trailing here 100 yards back.. Then in Dec we go after does again till close of season.
We took 38 does last year off 400 acres and couldnt really tell we touched them, thats 6 people hunting, and since we started taking does, our bucks have improved greatly.. I think alot of hunters are after big head gear, so let the little ones walk works for us..They cant grow up if they are hangingin a tree.. I always liked talking to the old timers who would be screaming that there are no big bucks and you look in there garage and there are 50 4 & 6 point racks hanging from the wall |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I don't see any real difference between shooting a doe and buck, meaning - I'm not going to pick one over the other for the reason of one has antlers and one doesn't, with only a few exceptions. If I'm huting a specific buck, then I'll pass on a doe, but thats about it. I hunt for the enjoyment of being in the woods and for the meat, I can't eat bone - even if there is 160 inches of it! I'll just as readily take a doe as I will a buck.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I mentioned it but no one else has, the thing about the year and half old buck or 2 and half, he's carrying a lot more meat if you have limited tags. Most does never get to the weight those deer are. There are the exceptions, but they're rare. Who was it on the boards here that shot that whopper of a doe in Western NYa couple years ago, Hillard or someone like that. It dressed at 184. Now that's some meat worth shooting.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
What's wrong with wanting to shoot the biggest "buck" possible?
When you go fishing, don't you want to catch the biggest fish possible? Do you cut your line once you realize you have a little yearling on? Keep in mind that not only is there is a sport to hunting deer there is also management aspect of it too. What would happen to our deer population if people always shot the first animal that walked by? How quickly would people tag out early in the season? Personally, I big mature doe is just as good of a trophy to me with my bow. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Nothing wrong with shooting the biggest buck possible. I've let dozens of bucks walk by waiting for bigger. I've also shot the first decent buck that showed up because I wanted to. Like with my NY tags from last year. I'll whack the first nice doe that shows up. With meat in the freezer I'll have no problem passing up a little buck in the 4 days season. Having the one in the freezer will also make me more picky during the regular season. If I don't find what I want I always know I'll have those same 4 days in early season next year to fill one of them. It also gets me in the woods 4 days before anyone else. This year I shot a nice 8 point the second day of the early season. The first day of the regular season I didn't go hunting, had house stuff to see too. There were guys all over that woods. I had my deer and was gone before they knew I was there.:)
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I've never really considered bucks to be more savvy or harder to kill than does. What I do believe is as the deer ages, regardless of sex, they do become more aware and cautious, thus harder to kill. I kill a whole lot more does than bucks because I see a whole lot more does. And while I'd rather have a buck for more meat, (and the antlers are cool), I'll take a big doe as opposed to a small buck.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d ORIGINAL: GMMAT Are we really fooling ourselves? Do we think (as a community) that the yearling buck is a greater "trophy" than the doe? Now as to why we were originally taught this..I have to reflect on my first hunt in PA as a kid (year 1978). We (Dad and I) saw 82 deer opening day..7 were bucks, The biggest buckwas a fork horn. So hunting then, it was "easy to get a doe"..where is the challenge? One doe got so close to jumping the dead fall we were behind I reached out and touched her. We didn't understand then, that the herd was suffering because we didn't take does, There were no (or few) big bucks because the woods barely offered enough nutrition to sustain all the deer it held. I know that many people still hold this value to be true.."I got my Buck" they can claim at the lodge. It's just a mind-set..some have evolved..some are stuck in the old days. New hunters are taught these things now..and understand them from the start. They have Hunter Ed Classes and DVD's and the Web. They have more access than we had. We had to forget what we learned andgain a new understanding. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
ORIGINAL: GR8atta2d ORIGINAL: GMMAT Are we really fooling ourselves? Do we think (as a community) that the yearling buck is a greater "trophy" than the doe? Now as to why we were originally taught this..I have to reflect on my first hunt in PA as a kid (year 1978). We (Dad and I) saw 82 deer opening day..7 were bucks, The biggest buckwas a fork horn. So hunting then, it was "easy to get a doe"..where is the challenge? One doe got so close to jumping the dead fall we were behind I reached out and touched her. We didn't understand then, that the herd was suffering because we didn't take does, There were no (or few) big bucks because the woods barely offered enough nutrition to sustain all the deer it held. I know that many people still hold this value to be true.."I got my Buck" they can claim at the lodge. It's just a mind-set..some have evolved..some are stuck in the old days. New hunters are taught these things now..and understand them from the start. They have Hunter Ed Classes and DVD's and the Web. They have more access than we had. We had to forget what we learned andgain a new understanding. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
When I first started hunting and I was able to grunt in a buck my heart pounded with excitement. I think that is a great feeling for any bowhunter to realize. As I have matured as a hunter I realize that does need to get shot also for management purposes. I also haven't seen a trophy buck in a couple years while hunting. Consequently, I approach every season as trying to fill the freez and after that I may focus on trying to kill a trophy buck.
Up until that point I totally focus on does. To me, the meat is better, and as far as a challenge goes; a young buck becomes the easiest deer in the woods to kill. During the pre rut they drop all defensive traits and seem to come running into my calls, scents, etc. In the end though, I think a buck resembles more of an achievement given the rack symbolism. Whatever makes the hunter happy I guess as long as ethics remain in the process. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Bob described this phenomenon to a tee. I remember, it was all about "horns". |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Why would you shoot a "buck" that you are not willing to mount? To me, I let smaller bucks walk and hope they get bigger next year. Does are better eatin' anyway!
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
I've shot a lot of bucks that a lot of people woulddie to mount while some in other areas wouldn't. The deer is one thing in one locale and another somewhere else. All herds are not the same.Personnally, I don't give rats about mounting a deer.I mounted two in my early years but doubt I'll ever mount another, but that'sme. Why would I shoot a deer I wouldn't mount????? Because I don't plan on mounting ANY. It's not aboutthe mount to me.To others it is. I'm in it for the meat, the challenge and just for the fun of it. It is suppose to be fun. It's a recreational sport, not a who can shoot the biggest sport. It's totally personnal. My question back would be, why would you criticize if someone choosesNOT to mount. Mounts are expensive and no one will want them when I'm dead.
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RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
Hey guys....
GREAT discussion.....and I was really hoping it wouldn't get into a QDM type conversation. It doesn't need to. We've got a WEALTH of information in the heads of some that have posted on this subject......and I appreciate you all sharing that. Respect. |
RE: WHAT is it about a BUCK????
i guess i was brought up different, my dad did not hunt with me, i started it all on my own, i am not like most being a first generation hunter, and not a 5th or 6th like alot of folks on here. so i guess i was always happy to bring back what i could. Doe or Buck.
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