RE: Is this cheating?
 

I'm not sure if it's a regional thing or not, KP.....but we refer to first light as "shooting light" a lot. Lots of guys, around here, would say "I didn't have enough shooting light". I made a thread about this, during the '05 season.....and got BLASTED for it!...lol

I'll check with our GW. He's a buddy.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

If you read my posts on this thread, you'll see that I don't support this method or tactic, legal or not.

In VA it isn't well defined as you said, but I think it would qualify as illegal. But really there is no difference between this method and some other things that we, as a group of hunters also do on a regular basis, like what GMMAT stated about being in his stand at 3:30 am. This too is lacking proper detail in the regs, but both are illegal and done to improve the odds of taking game. Each person having their own definition of "normal" would then also have their own definition of "ethical".

RE: Is this cheating?
 

No, KP....I have to disagree....based solely on the verbage of our regs. I'm not "hunting" (which isn't really defined in our regs under this statute). there is NO regulation on me being there. OUR law states that no game shall be TAKEN before 30 minutes before sunrise. Nothing more.

I think what I have done is well within the written law. I've never TAKEN game before that time. It isn't evenpractical to do so (in my early morning experiences).

GREAT discussion, though!

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I am not disputing that, but they were teenagers and likely know nothing of hunting or regs. Why wouldn't a stern verbal warning have sufficed?

RE: Is this cheating?
 

Semantics......and up for "opinion". The law is clear. It was left to the discretion of the wildlife officer......and he interpreted the law to the letter. If it hadn't been a problem in that particular county.....I'm sure the law wouldn't be in place, there (it's up to individual counties as to whether or not they choose to enact MORE STRICT laws regarding "spotlighting").

RE: Is this cheating?
 

MANNER OF TAKING

Definition of Take

during, immediately preparatory and immediately subsequent

to an attempt, whether successful or not, to capture, kill,

pursue, hunt or otherwise harm or reduce to possession

any fisheries resource or wildlife resource.

The above is from the NC wildlife resources commission.

Looks like to me "preparatory, pursue, hunt" could be defined as sitting in a tree stand waiting and ready. And I don't think "unsuccessful" means having to have taken a shot and missed. I would agree that it isn't cut and dry, but it isn't in VA either. I did ask and I was told that if I wanted to be sure that I was doing everything legal, I shouldn't even enter the woods until 30 min before sun rise, as documented in the rise and set tables. This is why in VA you can't even check in on military bases before this time, and you are expected to be out 30 after sunset, or they come looking for you. They come looking for you for two reasons. One, you may be hurt and two, you're breaking the law.

Also, I'd like to add that NC and VA share a lot of laws, so I think their interpretation of the laws would be in agreement.

I'm not saying you're doing anything wrong, or illegal, but only because I think the regs are poorly written and could be beat if challenged. I just don't think kids sitting next to a broken down car looking at deer with a flashlight should be charged with a crime, and I'm recognizing that WE do stuff that is just as questionable.

I know you're a good ethical hunter. I'm not questioning that, I'm just making a point that it isn't black and white.

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I can't argue that the law is likely clear to those actually even knowing about the law and can't argue that it was in the discretion of the officer to handle as he saw fit, especially if spotlighting is an issue in the area. With that said, I would hope that any officer would use sensible judgment, especially regarding kids, and be lenient when possible, as I don't know if the kids even hunted or knew anything about regs. Probably just some bored kids looking to pass some time while awaiting rescue. I'm sure he cited them and left them stranded too......Richard be thy/his name

RE: Is this cheating?
 

And he earned his name!

RE: Is this cheating?
 

I didn't read all the replies, but doesn't anyone else think that there is very little chance you are going to walk right up to a deer just cause it has a light in its eyes?

RE: Is this cheating?
 

finding out that they were stranded and didn't have guns in the car would have proably been a clue.;)