What level of respect do you give a hunter'saccomplishment(pro or not)who has taken P&Y +class buck(s) via an outfitter service?

With outfitters being jammed down our throat every time we watch a hunting program....... Is a P&Y a P&Y to you or is the accomplishment "cheapened" from it not being a DIY hunt?

What about a hammer someone takes from a buddies stand? Is thata tainted accomplishmentas well?


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A P&Y is a P&Y is a P&Y.

An outfitter can do all the leg work; the scouting, the stand hanging, the food plot planting, etc. He can set you in a stand and tell you approximately when the deer will enter the location.

However, when it comes right down to it it is the hunter who pulls the trigger and takes the animal's life. I'll pat anyone on the back, shake their hand, and congratulate them for a fine kill just so long as they don't try to pass it off as a non-outfitted kill.

So how is a P&Y a P&Y than? You really didn't answer my question..... You say you will congratulate them either way. I will congratulate them either way as well, although I do not respect the outfitted kill as much as a DIY.... What I asked is do you respect an outfitted kill equally to a non outfitted kill?[/align][/align][/align]I am not against outfitted hunts and may even go on one, this isn't the question.... Just the "respect" associated with it.
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Apparently I'll have to make things plain and simple.

Yes, I respect a hunter who killed their deer through an outfitter the same as I would someone who killed a deer on a DIY hunt.

Apparently andobviously not simple enough as this still is not my question....

I am not speaking of respecting the hunter..... but rather his accomplishment of taking the animal.

Anyhow, no need to reply again.....

No, I do not feel as much respect for an animal taken by a fully outfitted/guided hunt as compared to a DIY. Doesn't mean I wouldn't go on an outfitted hunt, however I find it difficult to think that a guided hunt would be as memorable or rewarding for meas some of the dinks I have shot but worked very hard for.

I honestly think if I wanted to travel to hunt, I would do a lease on some property with other guys and a DIY. We have a lot of guys that come into the shop that have done this with some great success and I feel I would be able to take more pride in that than to have a guide tell me where to sit, drive me there, gut the deer, drag it out, etc..................

Once again, I see nothing wrong with a fully outfitted hunt and may do one someday but I don't think I would take as much away from it as I would a DIY.

There's much to be said for a DIY hunt. However when trying something new it helps to have someone who knows the game. How many of us on our very first hunt scouted an area by ourselves, placed our own stands etc. Most will tell you that a freind took them and put them in a stand that was already there. I know I did. The only difference between that and an outfitter is that no money changed hands.

P&Y is just a scoring system based on the physical characteristics of the rack. Simple. Washington Hunter said it best. The respect is all there. The hunter may get more satisfaction on a DIY but that ,like ethics is all in the heart of the hunter.

How is an outfitted hunt any different from a person that owns a large tract of land that is crawling with big bucks? On the outfitted hunt, you have a very short window to make it happen, where very small things can break the whole deal. You get a week where the weather is bad, your outfitted hunt just became an exercise in sitting still. Just because you are with an outfitter, doesn't guarantee the kill. Most bowhunting outfits aren't much higher than 50% success rate. Anyone who shoots a P&Y deer has my respect, I don't really care if it was outfitted or not. The question almost sounds like the deer are supposed to know they are on the property of an outfitter and therefore are easier to kill. If it was that easy, you would see 100% success rates and all of them would be book deer.

There is a difference. The outfitter knows the deer on his/her propertyor area. As a client you don't need to scout to find this info out . that's the major difference. When you have your own land you've done this critical legwork yourself.

I fly fish a lot and sometimes I hire a guide when out west. most times I don't. When I fish by myself in an unfamiliar area I do get more satisfaction when I catch fish w/o a guide.

Time is a limiting factor here, If I were to elk hunt out west and had all season i would try it myself. If I was coming in for 3 days,I'd get a guide.

A P&Y deer with an outfitter can at times be as difficult as a do it yourself in my opinion. Time is the critical factor and mostly the pure enjoyment of being somewhere you don't get to often and sharing that week or weeks with a bunch of buddies that enjoy hunting as much as you. To me, it's about the experience. A complete week of nothing to think about or do other than hunting, which can be difficult at home base. I could lease land with that money, but I do not have the time to work the land properly to get the rewards. Is it rewarding to take a P&Y on your own land and do all the work, absolutely and it is personally satisfying; however I love to hunt somewhere new and to experience it with friends, so I am just as satisfied with a P&Y deer with an outfitter. I know plenty of guys who pay out the money and it just doesn't happen. There are no guarantees with a fair chase hunt through an outfitter. You may have access to some of the best land in a given area, but no guarantees. I also am very selective on an outfitted hunt, but then I'm selective at home too. It's about having the best possibility at a mature animal.....but I still have to make the shot and use my hunting know-how. IMO...opinions are going to vary, but I'm happy with my choices and I feel lucky to be able to do it.