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Hunting in the mornings?
I recently read two books that opened my eyes about the seemingly low odds of shooting a trophy buck during the morning, outside of November (Chase, Pre-rut, & Rut). The books were "Hunting trophy whitetails in the real world," by Don Higgins and "Real world tactics for todays trophy whitetails," by Steve Bartylla.
Both authors stated from their own experience, P & Y records, and outfitter logs that the odds of shooting a trophy/mature buck in the morning, outside of the rut, were incredibly low. They both stated that these bucks are in their beds before daylight during those times. They also stated that hunting in the mornings during these times can be detrimental to your hunts because more often than not you will be educating a trophy at this time if you are hunting for one. Ive always gone by the old saying, "You cant kill that tophy at home on the couch" philosophy. I am beginning to alter my beliefs and will probably hunt less mornings this fall. Plus i like to sleep in;) My question is have any of you noticed this low activitiy in the morning by mature bucks, and if so does it alter your hunting strategy???? |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
i have never shot a buck in the morning. i have seen bucks in the mornings, but never any big ones.
i have however seen a couple dandies between 10-2 when most people are outta the woods. alot of times i hunt from 9 am to dark. but i have shot my fair share of does in the morning though. :) |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I have shot two mature bucks outside of the rut in the morning. One 20 minutes after first light (late pre-rut), the other 3 hours after first light(first week of October).
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
It isa very interesting topic. I have had most of my experiences with mature bucks in the mornings, but usually not at first light and again these are mostly during the rut. My father, who obviously has been hunting for longer than me, has had more experiences in the evenings. Since we put out game cameras around Christmas, we have not gotten a picture of a buck in the morning and only a couple at night before dark. Perhaps your idea is right and for out of the rut times the morning just isn't worth it if your only objective is to get a mature buck. I'm not giving up any time in the woods during the rut though.
Good post. That's a real thinker. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr I have shot two mature bucks outside of the rut in the morning. One 20 minutes after first light (late pre-rut), the other 3 hours after first light(first week of October). Does this mean you hunt mornings no different than any other time of the year? |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
when i hunt mornings, i hunt around water in the mornings, and on narrow draws coming from people's lawns.
here in jersey, having a good development near your hunting spot is like having a clover field nearby. :D |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I have killed 3 mature bucks out of the rut in the mornings and have seen many more, But then i am targeting there areas on purpose and there suppose to show up. Walt
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
The mature buck you killed the 1st week of October was definitely an exception to their rule. They didnt state it was impossible, just lower odds. Mention was made that foggy and raining days helped. Does this mean you hunt mornings no different than any other time of the year? I know if I went by their thinking I would have two less shoulder mounts on my wall [8D] |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Just for clarification, when the authors mentioned the rut they included the pre-rut/chase period and the rut, which sometimes includes the last week of October, and the whole month of november. They both stated to stay on your stand all day during these times
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr The mature buck you killed the 1st week of October was definitely an exception to their rule. They didnt state it was impossible, just lower odds. Mention was made that foggy and raining days helped. Does this mean you hunt mornings no different than any other time of the year? I know if I went by their thinking I would have two less shoulder mounts on my wall [8D] |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
That was so interesting to me I had to take down the old gernal and found that after 32 years of deer hunting almost all my real Trophy Bucks came in the morning. With that said I also want you to know that in October I killed 0 tropny buck November 4and December 8 and I'll have you know the ones in December were all after the 15th. I have never taken a trophy Buck in the evening. Really gives me something to think about
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I hear you on that one. But isnt it possible that you may have spooked more mature bucks that you may have killed by educating them in the mornings. I am not arguing your point and it very well may be true, I have just had some success hunting mornings outside of the rut and hope that success will continue [8D] |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr Sure, but I have probably spooked more mature bucks walking out in the dark than I have killed as well. I am not arguing your point and it very well may be true, I have just had some success hunting mornings outside of the rut and hope that success will continue [8D] |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I seen more in the evenings, but I've also seen quite a few in the mornings. I'm hunting when I can hunt. A friend of mine has a hard time getting up in the morning to hunt unless he feels it in his "bone" that he will see something big. I can't fault him since he has a wall full of big deer.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Yea ....I noticed that just this last season , most of the bucks I did see were around mid - day and evening hours.
What I did see in the mornings was alot of young spikeschasing doe's. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I can say I have saw my big bucks in both the mornings and the evenings. I am not going to miss being in the woods just to wait for an evening hunt, so I will be out there in the mornings no matter what.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
My experience- from sunup to 12:30 or so is when the big ones come buy ... real early - first hour of light and then 10am-11:30 seem to be the hottest, no matter when I hunt.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: buckeyebuckhntr I have shot two mature bucks outside of the rut in the morning. One 20 minutes after first light (late pre-rut), the other 3 hours after first light(first week of October). |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: drhntr178 Both authors stated from their own experience, P & Y records, and outfitter logs that the odds of shooting a trophy/mature buck in the morning, outside of the rut, were incredibly low. They both stated that these bucks are in their beds before daylight during those times. They also stated that hunting in the mornings during these times can be detrimental to your hunts because more often than not you will be educating a trophy at this time if you are hunting for one. Ive always gone by the old saying, "You cant kill that tophy at home on the couch" philosophy. I am beginning to alter my beliefs and will probably hunt less mornings this fall. Plus i like to sleep in;) The above is my exact hunting strategy. I began trophy hunting in 1991 and have killed 15 mature bucks with a bow. For me, Nov. 1st is when I start hunting mornings. Because I believe that the mature bucks are already in their beds before daylight, except during Nov. During Nov, I've had 50/50 for mornings and evenings. Kind of weird though, is that 5/6 inthe first 6 years were in the mornings. #5 was an Oct deer. Also, the last5/7 have been in the evenings. 2 were Dec deer (evening month). But over all, I'm still about 50/50 mornings and evenings. Just be there in Nov!;) BTW, no sleeping in late! Get your stuff around the house done so there are no complaints from the boss!:D |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Mornings are toughbowhuntinghere on mature bucks. Morning thermals always blow downslope for mature bucks to guide them back to their well elevated mountain beds. They are usually in their beds right at or right after daybreak during Sept- to mid Oct and in Dec. Younger bucks not the case. They fiddle fart around for an hour or so after daylight.
I have killed 2 mature bucks outside of the rut in the mornings... one in Sept 140 classand one in Oct a 160 class. Both I had a spot to set up that structure deflected the wind sideways due to a bluff in one case and a finger ridge on the other. Both spots allowed me to hunt close in proximity to the bucks path to his bed without the thermal blowing directly to him. I will add, I dont get many opportunities to hunt mornings due to my work schedule. I think I would have a few more bucks tagged in the mornings if I had more than just weekends to hunt mornings...outside of the rut. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: GregH drhntr178, The above is my exact hunting strategy. I began trophy hunting in 1991 and have killed 15 mature bucks with a bow. For me, Nov. 1st is when I start hunting mornings. Because I believe that the mature bucks are already in their beds before daylight, except during Nov. During Nov, I've had 50/50 for mornings and evenings. Kind of weird though, is that 5/6 inthe first 6 years were in the mornings. #5 was an Oct deer. Also, the last5/7 have been in the evenings. 2 were Dec deer (evening month). But over all, I'm still about 50/50 mornings and evenings. Just be there in Nov!;) BTW, no sleeping in late! Get your stuff around the house done so there are no complaints from the boss!:D My strategy for next year is going to hunt fewer mornings in sept and oct, focusing on does whenIgo in themorningand hunt the evenings for the bucks. November I will hunt all day as usual andDecember will be strictly evenings for me. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I have a journal too (30yrs) -- 4 of my top 5 bucks were arrowed in the morning. Given thatI generally hunt more in the afternoon than the morning,mornings are far more likely to be productive for me.
While I have no doubts that I have spooked mature bucksin the pre-dawn, I also know that I havespooked some shooters in the evening, not good in either case... I think generally that thebowhunters in my neck of the woods are far more likely to be out there in the afternoon than the morning - do not think that the mature deer do not pick up on the pattern - so it may pay to be a contrarian and hunt the mornings and of course, thenoon hours. -fsh |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I for one totally agree with the authors. I believe that hunting mornings in early fall can be (and usually are for me) detrimental to the success of an entire hunting season. I consider myself a "low profile" hunter. Basically I try to hunt as much as possible without the whitetail knowing I am hunting them at all. However, I will hunt mornings in the early season following a good (good) cold front.
But I do understand that whitetail can be killed in the mornings at anytime during the season. I just believe, through many past encounters, that mature whitetails get to their beds well before sun up on most mornings. And I also understand that with a limited season why another hunter would want to get out as much as possible. I have been guilty of this myself on many occasions.:) But during the pre-rut, rut, and parts of the post-rut all bets are off. And it is during this time of year I too, see more mature bucks while hunting the mornings. Of course all of these statements still greatly depend on the weather.:D |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: drhntr178 ORIGINAL: GregH drhntr178, The above is my exact hunting strategy. I began trophy hunting in 1991 and have killed 15 mature bucks with a bow. For me, Nov. 1st is when I start hunting mornings. Because I believe that the mature bucks are already in their beds before daylight, except during Nov. During Nov, I've had 50/50 for mornings and evenings. Kind of weird though, is that 5/6 inthe first 6 years were in the mornings. #5 was an Oct deer. Also, the last5/7 have been in the evenings. 2 were Dec deer (evening month). But over all, I'm still about 50/50 mornings and evenings. Just be there in Nov!;) BTW, no sleeping in late! Get your stuff around the house done so there are no complaints from the boss!:D My strategy for next year is going to hunt fewer mornings in sept and oct, focusing on does whenIgo in themorningand hunt the evenings for the bucks. November I will hunt all day as usual andDecember will be strictly evenings for me. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I have seen three 150 class deer in the mornings in the last three years. But all three times it was an awful blowing day and i was sneaking around in my ASAT 3-D suit. All three were bedded down. Last year i saw a 190 class double drop tine monster in the morning bedded in a field with a doe but that was the peak breeding period.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Didnt see any bucks in the morning. All were from 12:00 to 5:30. The one buck I got a shot at was on Dec 22 ant 12:30. He came out with about 20 does. I grunted and he came running in grunting all the way to me. Here I had just shot a doe and it was laying dead in the field about 15 yards from my stand. He saw that and got real nervous, I shot and the arrow went right over his back. Then he was mad. He started snorting and grunting before he trotted off. All I can say is that this buck was acting like is was Nov 20 or something.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Great observation in the readings. Personally, I have only seen a few mature bucks in the morning hours, and many of those i can just say i saw there body, and assume they were big boys, the light was still too low. I enjoy evening hunts much more, I feel like I see more action then, but none the less, a day in the woods is a day in the woods, and I enjoy the morning time also.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I think it is more about they do not like moving around in their winter coats when it is warm, but be there when that north wind starts an the temps start to fall. I like to be onan area around some acorn trees where some does have been feeding next to a 5 or 6 year old cutover. The bucks get out of thebeds an start coming out of the wood work looking for the does under those trees. ( I miss itjust talking about it, oh well just about 7 1/2 months to go).
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I have had good luck taking mature bucks in the morning. My best time is between 8:00 and 9:00. I have seen more mature bucks at that time than any other where I hunt in IL. Mornings have always been better for me than evenings. May be it is because the deer like to use the woods I hunt in as a bedding area, and I do not disturb it by walking around during the season. They don't seem to have a specific area they use, they bed in many locations throughout the woods. I may be catching them moving from bed to another.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I've always seen more deer in the eve. I killed my buck in the morningat first light but it was Nov 26. I hunt more evenings.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
During the chase period I have always seen them in the morning, but post-rut a) I don't see many bucks at all b) when I do it is at last light!
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
indiana: I'm the same way. Seeing as we both are from Indiana, that's understandable. I totally understand exactly what you're saying and would agree with you.
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I think Greg hit the nail on the head for killing a mature buck... "be there in November".
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Both authors stated from their own experience, P & Y records, and outfitter logs that the odds of shooting a trophy/mature buck in the morning, outside of the rut, were incredibly low. They both stated that these bucks are in their beds before daylight during those times. They also stated that hunting in the mornings during these times can be detrimental to your hunts because more often than not you will be educating a trophy at this time if you are hunting for one. Perhaps they touch on this somewhere else in the books but the odds of killing a P&Y buck during the rut aren't all that good either. Certainly as has been stated, chances of successfully arrowing a mature buck for obvious reasons during the rutare more likely than at any other time of the season. From the excerpt givenI am not sure if they are making the case for not hunting until the three phases of the rut arrive or if they are making an arguement for not hunting the mornings outside of this period (the rut). What do they say about hunting evenings during the weeks prior to the rut? Because I have not read either of their works I won't speculate on their opinions. So, that leaves the discussion of hunting morning or evenings prior to the time when the rut comes into play. Is one more effective than the other? Are we wasting our time and further hurting our chances of taking a mature bucklater in the season by educating deer in our hunting area? My feeling is that each area issomewhat of an entity unto itself. In other words not all parts of the country are the same in terms of deer behavior and terrain. As Shed33 has pointed out, "flatlanders" don't deal with thermals the same way a person living in the mountains do. But that is a discussion for another day. If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening? Are we ruining our chances of connecting by hunting in the early season and thereby "educating" the deer? I think werun the risk of educating deer every time we enter their domain. Certainly the only way to know for sure is to ask a mature buck, but unfortunatley they are not talking. Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through. Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable. The bottom line for me is this. Mature bucks arenot easy to come by period! First of all their numbers are limited. Even in "Trophy Country" they are not hiding behind every tree. By nature they are morereclusive, thus harder to hunt. Unless they are farmed (I use theterm loosely) they got to be mature by being smart enough to survive. Without a doubt the best chance to nail one is during the rut. But to stophunting in the early season because the odds are against meis not an option. Ienjoy it to much.:) |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater Truth be told I have not read these books. What I am about to say are just mythoughts and observations that I have made over the years, far be it from me to argue with the experts who make a living hunting ungulates. Perhaps they touch on this somewhere else in the books but the odds of killing a P&Y buck during the rut aren't all that good either. Certainly as has been stated, chances of successfully arrowing a mature buck for obvious reasons during the rutare more likely than at any other time of the season. From the excerpt givenI am not sure if they are making the case for not hunting until the three phases of the rut arrive or if they are making an arguement for not hunting the mornings outside of this period (the rut). What do they say about hunting evenings during the weeks prior to the rut? Because I have not read either of their works I won't speculate on their opinions. So, that leaves the discussion of hunting morning or evenings prior to the time when the rut comes into play. Is one more effective than the other? Are we wasting our time and further hurting our chances of taking a mature bucklater in the season by educating deer in our hunting area? My feeling is that each area issomewhat of an entity unto itself. In other words not all parts of the country are the same in terms of deer behavior and terrain. As Shed33 has pointed out, "flatlanders" don't deal with thermals the same way a person living in the mountains do. But that is a discussion for another day. If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening? Are we ruining our chances of connecting by hunting in the early season and thereby "educating" the deer? I think werun the risk of educating deer every time we enter their domain. Certainly the only way to know for sure is to ask a mature buck, but unfortunatley they are not talking. Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through. Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable. The bottom line for me is this. Mature bucks arenot easy to come by period! First of all their numbers are limited. Even in "Trophy Country" they are not hiding behind every tree. By nature they are morereclusive, thus harder to hunt. Unless they are farmed (I use theterm loosely) they got to be mature by being smart enough to survive. Without a doubt the best chance to nail one is during the rut. But to stophunting in the early season because the odds are against meis not an option. Ienjoy it to much.:) Both authors separate the season into stages: 1)early season (sept-early oct),2) October lull (mid oct),3) prerut-Rut (late oct-all of Nov) 4) late season/post rut (dec-end of season) They do mention the 2nd rut but include it with the late season. Basically both authors played the odds when it came to trophy hunting. They did everything they possibly could to raise the already extremely low odds of arrowing a mature buck. One of these factors was Hunting evenings only outside of the pre-rut/rut period. They both base this on their experience that mature bucks are bedded before first light at these times. They stated that a mature buck is more likely to be on his feet during the evening light. Once the pre-rut/rut came they hunted mornings and evenings and all day when necessary. They stated that with the rut the mature bucks moved equally well in the morning light and evening light. Both books were great reads and I'd recommend them to anyone trying to learn more about trophy bucks. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
I'd be willing to bet AE has a more impressive trophy room than those guys :D
When AE speaks.... I listen! |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
It don't matter to me I hunt when I can. I will say that I like the AM over The PM if I had a choice.
hatchet Jack |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening? Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through. Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable. Second point is that I think that morning vs evening sucess is directly related to timing, what week of what month along with what stage or pattern the deer are in. Some weeks or months are better for mornings and some are better for evenings. My personal experiences tell me that evenings are best in Oct and mornings are best in Nov. As far as the overall avg. of my hunts go, I'm at 50/50 mornings vs evenings. A lot of this also depends on what deer I'm hunting. Third point, I believe this whole heartedly. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Having been to Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan many times, every single guide up there will tell you that the big bucks are killed between 10Am and 2PM there. There reasoning being that in those remote areas, the deer have natural predators (wolves) that hunt at night and have an advantage on them. They bed at night for safety and move around during daylight hours. Since a significant amount of trophy class deer are shot in remote places, or places with low pressure, there is less reason for them to move during the night as opposed to the day.
In the area I am from (NY and CT), I have only seen a handful of quality bucks killed between the hours of 10-2. Most are killed in the last hour of daylight. I would venture and guess that they can move around pretty freely at night where I am from, without any predators, and with the cover of darkness. |
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
While I will agree with some points AE stated. I will have to say that Mr. Don Higgins has one of the most impressive galleries of whitetail on the planet, including one deer over 200 inches. All by bow, only in real world situations... i.e. No outfitters etc. Mr. Higgins does not even believe in leasing land to hunt. All are permission based, with a couple smaller tracts he owns. I do not doubt his credabilty.
I totally agree with GregH.. good posts. We both hunt the HIGH pressured whitetails of northern Illinois and southeastern Wisconsin.;) |
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