Hunting in the mornings?
02-13-2007 | 09:33 AM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,597
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From: Heaven IA USA
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Both authors stated from their own experience, P & Y records, and outfitter logs that the odds of shooting a trophy/mature buck in the morning, outside of the rut, were incredibly low. They both stated that these bucks are in their beds before daylight during those times. They also stated that hunting in the mornings during these times can be detrimental to your hunts because more often than not you will be educating a trophy at this time if you are hunting for one.
Perhaps they touch on this somewhere else in the books but the odds of killing a P&Y buck during the rut aren't all that good either. Certainly as has been stated, chances of successfully arrowing a mature buck for obvious reasons during the rutare more likely than at any other time of the season.
From the excerpt givenI am not sure if they are making the case for not hunting until the three phases of the rut arrive or if they are making an arguement for not hunting the mornings outside of this period (the rut). What do they say about hunting evenings during the weeks prior to the rut? Because I have not read either of their works I won't speculate on their opinions.
So, that leaves the discussion of hunting morning or evenings prior to the time when the rut comes into play. Is one more effective than the other? Are we wasting our time and further hurting our chances of taking a mature bucklater in the season by educating deer in our hunting area?
My feeling is that each area issomewhat of an entity unto itself. In other words not all parts of the country are the same in terms of deer behavior and terrain. As Shed33 has pointed out, "flatlanders" don't deal with thermals the same way a person living in the mountains do. But that is a discussion for another day.
If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening?
Are we ruining our chances of connecting by hunting in the early season and thereby "educating" the deer? I think werun the risk of educating deer every time we enter their domain. Certainly the only way to know for sure is to ask a mature buck, but unfortunatley they are not talking.
Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through.
Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable.
The bottom line for me is this. Mature bucks arenot easy to come by period! First of all their numbers are limited. Even in "Trophy Country" they are not hiding behind every tree. By nature they are morereclusive, thus harder to hunt. Unless they are farmed (I use theterm loosely) they got to be mature by being smart enough to survive. Without a doubt the best chance to nail one is during the rut. But to stophunting in the early season because the odds are against meis not an option. Ienjoy it to much.
02-13-2007 | 11:53 AM
#35
Thread Starter
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
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RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater
Truth be told I have not read these books. What I am about to say are just mythoughts and observations that I have made over the years, far be it from me to argue with the experts who make a living hunting ungulates.
Perhaps they touch on this somewhere else in the books but the odds of killing a P&Y buck during the rut aren't all that good either. Certainly as has been stated, chances of successfully arrowing a mature buck for obvious reasons during the rutare more likely than at any other time of the season.
From the excerpt givenI am not sure if they are making the case for not hunting until the three phases of the rut arrive or if they are making an arguement for not hunting the mornings outside of this period (the rut). What do they say about hunting evenings during the weeks prior to the rut? Because I have not read either of their works I won't speculate on their opinions.
So, that leaves the discussion of hunting morning or evenings prior to the time when the rut comes into play. Is one more effective than the other? Are we wasting our time and further hurting our chances of taking a mature bucklater in the season by educating deer in our hunting area?
My feeling is that each area issomewhat of an entity unto itself. In other words not all parts of the country are the same in terms of deer behavior and terrain. As Shed33 has pointed out, "flatlanders" don't deal with thermals the same way a person living in the mountains do. But that is a discussion for another day.
If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening?
Are we ruining our chances of connecting by hunting in the early season and thereby "educating" the deer? I think werun the risk of educating deer every time we enter their domain. Certainly the only way to know for sure is to ask a mature buck, but unfortunatley they are not talking.
Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through.
Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable.
The bottom line for me is this. Mature bucks arenot easy to come by period! First of all their numbers are limited. Even in "Trophy Country" they are not hiding behind every tree. By nature they are morereclusive, thus harder to hunt. Unless they are farmed (I use theterm loosely) they got to be mature by being smart enough to survive. Without a doubt the best chance to nail one is during the rut. But to stophunting in the early season because the odds are against meis not an option. Ienjoy it to much.
Truth be told I have not read these books. What I am about to say are just mythoughts and observations that I have made over the years, far be it from me to argue with the experts who make a living hunting ungulates.
Perhaps they touch on this somewhere else in the books but the odds of killing a P&Y buck during the rut aren't all that good either. Certainly as has been stated, chances of successfully arrowing a mature buck for obvious reasons during the rutare more likely than at any other time of the season.
From the excerpt givenI am not sure if they are making the case for not hunting until the three phases of the rut arrive or if they are making an arguement for not hunting the mornings outside of this period (the rut). What do they say about hunting evenings during the weeks prior to the rut? Because I have not read either of their works I won't speculate on their opinions.
So, that leaves the discussion of hunting morning or evenings prior to the time when the rut comes into play. Is one more effective than the other? Are we wasting our time and further hurting our chances of taking a mature bucklater in the season by educating deer in our hunting area?
My feeling is that each area issomewhat of an entity unto itself. In other words not all parts of the country are the same in terms of deer behavior and terrain. As Shed33 has pointed out, "flatlanders" don't deal with thermals the same way a person living in the mountains do. But that is a discussion for another day.
If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening?
Are we ruining our chances of connecting by hunting in the early season and thereby "educating" the deer? I think werun the risk of educating deer every time we enter their domain. Certainly the only way to know for sure is to ask a mature buck, but unfortunatley they are not talking.
Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through.
Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable.
The bottom line for me is this. Mature bucks arenot easy to come by period! First of all their numbers are limited. Even in "Trophy Country" they are not hiding behind every tree. By nature they are morereclusive, thus harder to hunt. Unless they are farmed (I use theterm loosely) they got to be mature by being smart enough to survive. Without a doubt the best chance to nail one is during the rut. But to stophunting in the early season because the odds are against meis not an option. Ienjoy it to much.
Both authors separate the season into stages: 1)early season (sept-early oct),2) October lull (mid oct),3) prerut-Rut (late oct-all of Nov) 4) late season/post rut (dec-end of season) They do mention the 2nd rut but include it with the late season.
Basically both authors played the odds when it came to trophy hunting. They did everything they possibly could to raise the already extremely low odds of arrowing a mature buck. One of these factors was Hunting evenings only outside of the pre-rut/rut period. They both base this on their experience that mature bucks are bedded before first light at these times. They stated that a mature buck is more likely to be on his feet during the evening light. Once the pre-rut/rut came they hunted mornings and evenings and all day when necessary. They stated that with the rut the mature bucks moved equally well in the morning light and evening light.
Both books were great reads and I'd recommend them to anyone trying to learn more about trophy bucks.
02-13-2007 | 03:35 PM
#38
Site Buck Guru
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,922
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From: Racine, Wisconsin
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
ORIGINAL: Antler Eater
If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening?
Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through.
Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable.
If one makes the arguement that mature bucks are already in their beds by the time legal light arrives,wouldn't you also then using the same logic,say that they won't leave their bed until after legal light has left? If one believes they are educating deer by going to stand in the dark on a morning hunt, using the same logic, would not one be educating deer exiting the stand under the cover of darkness in the evening?
Over the years the records I have kept show a slight edge to morning hunts. Not altogether scientific, but there is not a small amount of data to look through.
Personally I won't quit hunting mornings in the early season. Has it hurt me in the past? If it has, I am not smart enough to know it. I feel one of the better chances a guy has to connect on a mature buck is the first week of the season when they have not seen real hunting pressure (Rememberthe Mike Rex buck out of Ohio in 2005?A morning hunt by the way.) and are still somewhat patternable.
Second point is that I think that morning vs evening sucess is directly related to timing, what week of what month along with what stage or pattern the deer are in. Some weeks or months are better for mornings and some are better for evenings. My personal experiences tell me that evenings are best in Oct and mornings are best in Nov. As far as the overall avg. of my hunts go, I'm at 50/50 mornings vs evenings. A lot of this also depends on what deer I'm hunting.
Third point, I believe this whole heartedly.
02-13-2007 | 04:08 PM
#39
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 253
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From: New York
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
Having been to Alberta, Manitoba and Saskatchewan many times, every single guide up there will tell you that the big bucks are killed between 10Am and 2PM there. There reasoning being that in those remote areas, the deer have natural predators (wolves) that hunt at night and have an advantage on them. They bed at night for safety and move around during daylight hours. Since a significant amount of trophy class deer are shot in remote places, or places with low pressure, there is less reason for them to move during the night as opposed to the day.
In the area I am from (NY and CT), I have only seen a handful of quality bucks killed between the hours of 10-2. Most are killed in the last hour of daylight. I would venture and guess that they can move around pretty freely at night where I am from, without any predators, and with the cover of darkness.
In the area I am from (NY and CT), I have only seen a handful of quality bucks killed between the hours of 10-2. Most are killed in the last hour of daylight. I would venture and guess that they can move around pretty freely at night where I am from, without any predators, and with the cover of darkness.
02-13-2007 | 04:28 PM
#40
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,075
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From: Northwest suburbs, Illinois
RE: Hunting in the mornings?
While I will agree with some points AE stated. I will have to say that Mr. Don Higgins has one of the most impressive galleries of whitetail on the planet, including one deer over 200 inches. All by bow, only in real world situations... i.e. No outfitters etc. Mr. Higgins does not even believe in leasing land to hunt. All are permission based, with a couple smaller tracts he owns. I do not doubt his credabilty.
I totally agree with GregH.. good posts. We both hunt the HIGH pressured whitetails of northern Illinois and southeastern Wisconsin.
I totally agree with GregH.. good posts. We both hunt the HIGH pressured whitetails of northern Illinois and southeastern Wisconsin.