RE: To expound.......Baiting.....
 

I set up a gravity feeder this last late winter and filled it all summer, but a gravity feeder can run a man broke in a hurry from the coons alone. I mainly did it cause or local DNR told me that the main thing next to genetics that helps a rack is how soon they recover from winter. So thats what I was trying to do. Could not fill it fast enough in the spring. But I hunt NW Ohio and you could call my entire county a bait pile. The area I hunt is about 40 acres, on the medium to small size of woods in my area. It has corn or beans on all four sides. The one corn field is so large I had to look with binoculars to see across it. Once the corn put onthe ears and the bean pods started to fill my 50# feeder lasted about six weeks before it needed filled, and I think birds a squirrels did all the eating. To much food around here for it to do anything during the season. I have a new 250# feeder that I plan on hanging up as soon as the ground thaws. I plan on filling it with Purina antler max, so I can help out the bucks antlers. The other thing I hope to accomplish is more deer in general. When in the spring I had six deer in the same pic I thought I was in heaven. Hoping by having the feeder more deer may move into my area. I also do not think baiting has anything to do with CWD. Haven't any of you guys seen deer rub noses, does do it all the time in my area.

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I live in Missouri and it is illegal to hunt over bait. I don't think that this law has anything to do with CWD because it is not illegal to put supplemental feed out. You can do it year round. Just can't hunt over it. Hunting over it is not an option for me because it is illegal. If it were legal, I might try it....I'm not sure. It is a personal decision.

I have 20 acres that doesn't have much to attract deer. I put out a food plot to increase my chances and it does help. So by some folks opinions, I do hunt over bait (it is legal to hunt food plots). That is a good question...why is it ok to bait bear and not deer. Different things are important to different people. Live and let live!!!

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I had acorn feeder out in 2003 from spring to winter. I hunted it two times an got bored, then went back to my way of hunting I know best. I feel that hunting off of a corn feeder is an easy way to attract deer. We attempt to plant food plots each year. I do not think, that any of the above mentioned counts when the whiteoaks, willow oaks an the red oaks start dropping acorns.

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i personaly am on both sides of the argunment on baiting period so i never really like to get to involved with it much

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I love using my feeder for everything, from scouting, to trail cam opps. to hunting. Myself and my friends have taken numerous deer within 50 yards of that feeder this year. Only 1 was actually eating, the others were just passing through the area and never even gave interest to the feeder. Typically, the feeder goes off at the same time they come in range and scares them away, it's actually cost me more shots because of that.
Putting my trail cam on it is the coolest, though. I have gotten some interesting pics of numerous animals and some big bucks that I woud have never thought existed here. I even have a couple of spikes fighting.
However in NC, it is illegal to bait turkey's, but I never have time to hunt them when there time rolls around anyway.

I am tired of people I come across getting superiority complexes about the feeder thing. Everyone I personally know that hunts, has a feeder and base their stand placement upon how the deer travel around that feeder, yet they say "they are not using it like that!"

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Youre partly right with the 2 gal limit and directly right about why we went to the 2gl limit. Its actually 2 gl per 40 acre per hunter. The dnr has a great slide show explaining this. As for the bears just shoot them lol they are starting to get out of conrol, they really need to start issuing more kill tags. Especially those who have never put in before and figure theyd give it try, and if they enjoyed it and had a sucessful hunt then start the point system, but then that might cause problems as well cause everyone that hunts would be out slaughtering bears, so maybe not a great idea. ForgetI mentioned that [:@]

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This baiting in WI is not state wide is it? I was under the impression it was allowed only in the north in certain zones.

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Baiting deer is now legal in Pa, in some Special Regs WMUs, on private property only. [8D]

RE: To expound.......Baiting.....
 

Food plots(suplimental feeding)makedeer hunting easier, bait piles and feeders make deer hunting easier. How do you want to get your buck? Lifting weights builds muscle. Lifting weights and using steriods makes building muscle easier. Smell what I am saying? Deer can easily be patterned without even considering their food source or hunting anywhere near it. They are in the feed fields just before dark and for a bit at first light. Why would one even hunt these areas considering that 95% of the time they are somewhere else?

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Yes mostly in the North and it sure messes up the public land.

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I don't think too many "got" what I was asking.....

Let me ask it another way.

If it's NOT "OK" to bait for deer (for some)......WHY would it be "OK" to hunt bears over bait (or any other animal)?

THAT'S what I was wanting to know. Where do some/we draw the line.....and WHY the distinction?

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Jeff- I was skimming through the posts and was chuckling because i realized your true question had never been answered.

To quote a GW - "A fed bear is a dead bear". In other words I think bears get on a food source and dont leave it until its gone, therefore baiting them is the best way to get them. The population is far far less densethan that of deer and they travel a great deal, therefore its almost impossible to pattern them unless you know the food source they are frequenting. So w/o baiting a lot of hunters would never even see a bear, let alone kill one.

But as far as drawing a distinction, I dont, to me its no different. In fact if anything its worse to bait bears because they get more "addicted" to the food source. Deer will leave bait (or visit less frequently) when another food source is in season.

Personally i see baiting as just an easy way to pattern animals for us. It does nothing to overcome the animals accute senses. I have killed deer over bait and its just as difficult to beat their senses. To me baiting is just concentrating a food source, no different than a cut corn field or food plot (they are just less concentrated)

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I think people will justify using bait for many reason. My personal favorite is up in Canada where they shoot black bear over bait. Normally in the form of trash cans filled with apples. They claim that the bear are over populated and this is why they use this method. I couldn't disagree more. I'm pretty sure that unless you were to take the cold and hard approach of killing every bear that came by, you wouldn't and aren't accomplishing anything. In fact, I'm pretty sure that it's at least fairly well known that by providing an artificial food source to the bear, you'll most likely increase their numbers. So why do we keep feeding them? So that we can kill them with the smallest amount of effort. Is this hunting? I don't think so, but that's just me.

Have a great day!

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And "a fed bear is a dead bear" is pointing to the fact that when bear get used to being fed, and near people, they start to pose problems. Problems such as property damage and attacks take place, so the bear is killed - "a fed bear is a dead bear".

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It's pretty obvious from your statement that you have very little knowledge about bear hunting and bear populations.

Feeding them increases the population? Sure.:eek: That's why with the disappearance of spring hunting in Ontario the bear populations have gotten out of control.

It gets sickening around here reading all the posts about hunters tearing down other hunters for their legal hunting methods. Plus the main reason why I and many others have gotten sick of posting.

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I agree with Dano. KP just because you read something on the net once does not make you an expert. We live it. You have a right to your opinion that bear baiting is wrong, however I do not appreciate people trying to state facts that they cleary have never experienced. For one who the heck baits with apples and trash cans? First i have ever heard this one. A fed bear is a dead bear? Um no. They have more tricks up their sleeve than a whitetail. They go noctural often as well and cannot be patterned worth a dam. Baiting here takes place in fairly remote areas where towns/civilization is not for miles. If the bait was not there the bears would still survive. This is not their main food source so i suggest you do a bit more google work.

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The "fed bear/dead bear" thing doesn't have anything to do with baiting. I guess I didn’t do such a good job reiterating that in my post. It is a term that describes the fate of bear that frequents trashcans at peoples homes and camp grounds and such. The more they're around people, the more bold they get and the more damage that they do. This ultimately leads to the bear being killed by authorities.

And, even though I don't live in an area that in considered over populated, there are bear here, and I've had them on my property. I had one for a few years that I came really close to killing for this reason. He would do anything to get to our wild bird seed.

I am ignorant on this subject, so please answer a few questions for me.

1. If they're over populated - why do you need bait to find them?
2. How come they're hunted "selectively" over bait instead of killed on the spot?
3. How does adding food to an area, or creating an artificial food source decrease population?

RE: To expound.......Baiting.....
 

I wouldn't classy them as over populated in my area (Dan May differ) however bait is used to help concentrate them to improve your odds. In the spring who knows where they go and what they are feeding on. Fall it is a little easier as you can make use of berry patches and farmland. As for selectively shooting them, you are only allowed one tag a year so you might as well make it count. More hunter success = lower pop.

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They are not overpopulated in my area either, mainly because I harvest enough each year to keep the population in check.

To answer you questions KP....

1. In mine and a lot of areas spot and stalk is pretty much impossible. It's very thick and the probability of seeing a bear without bait is next to none.

2. I don't understand what this question has to do with baiting bears. The only thing I can decipher from your question was probably answered by my response to question 1.

3.Hmmmmmm, I believe your original statement said that adding bait increases their population. I disagreed with that. Plus,I never said that baiting decreases the population except for the fact it is used to hunt over.


Now I just want to point something out, so don't get PO'd. You said you were ignorant on the subject. So, you never should have posted anything on this topic except for questions. Instead, you posted some of your ill-advised assumptions on bear hunting and populations. Those are the kind of things that drive me nuts about this forum, people posting without any knowledge of what they are talking about, just assumptions. It's not just you KP, its a ton of other people here too.

RE: To expound.......Baiting.....
 

The fed bear dead bear things applys to baiting just as it applys to public nuisense. If you bait an area up and hunt over it your likely to kill that bear. I was just using the statement in a difference sense than it was originally stated.

The area I hunt bears are not over populated, and we arnt allowed to bait. If it were legal, I wouldnt have any problems doing it. Just my 2cents

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Don't get PO'd Ed, but this is the kind of thing I was talking about in my last post. You state that you can't hunt over bait in your area, yet you ASSUME that if you bait a bear you are automatically going to kill him. Not true. Baiting bear is a science and is very difficult to get older bears to hit a bait during daylight.

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Dan:

For the record.....I posted this NOT to have anyone divided. I posted it for the OPPOSITE reason. It seems SO MANY people want to look down their noses at people who bait deer.......but will give a pass to people who bait bear and other animals (mainly because they, themselves, likely have done so).

Baiting is allowed for a MYRIAD of reasons.

MY OPINION>>.........but if you're not hunting BIG woods.....with no agricultural fields......you're hunting over bait. There's nothing "natural" about a crop of corn....or a field of soy beans. I didn't say I had aproblem in the world with it....I don't.....I just think it's time for everyone to look at this in a different light.

THAT is why I posted my Big Woods" thread the other day.....to find out if anyone was REALLY hunting big woods...with no agricultural fields. I was VERY surprised to find that some are.

Respect.

I don't disrespect the people who bait AT ALL. Let me make that clear, also. This thread was started to make people think.....not divide them. I'm sorry that was a pseudo-side effect.

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Jeff,

I realize what your intent was. I usually don't post on threads like this because they seem to turn into pissing matches. The only reason I did post had nothing to do with you. I saw something that had to be addressed. I get sick of people assuming things about other hunters legal methods of hunting. Just because it is not legal in their area or they don't agree with it they start a pissing match with someone who is doing nothing wrong and is hunting within the law. It's getting old.

BTW, I hunt big woods without a field within 100 miles in Canada and don't bait deer.

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Dan,

Question number 2, the term “selective” meant to let some live, and picking only one bear to kill, or maybe I should have said “being selective”. Sorry.

My reasons for connecting this issue with over population is based on some things I read after I was invited to go on a hunting trip to Nova Scotia. I went on line and found some hunting sites, looked over the bear hunting areas and came across some videos of bear hunts taking place in the areas that we were looking at going. In most of the videos, there are multiple bear, multiple trashcans (filled with apples) and a hunter watches until he sees one that would meet his criteria (for whatever reason) and shoots him/her. He then does the normal stuff – talks about how exciting it was and posses for a picture with the bear. From there I guess he either leaves it to rot, makes a rug, eats it, or some combination of these things. The area was said to be "over populated" and that this type of hunting was a form of population control. I didn't end up going.

Dan, I didn’t take offense to your comments, so please don’t take offense to mine.

I am a hunter/killer. I put the killer part in there, because I, unlike many, admit to myself, and the rest of the world that the killing part of the hunt is one of my main reasons for being there. But, what have I accomplished if I can’t do it on my own, without bait. I’m not against killing a bear, or three or a hundred, but I don’t buy into the “over population” thing, nor do I approve of hunting over bait. That is my opinion though, and I realize that.

I forget what it is called, (some specific term for the life cycle of a species) but every species goes through a cycle. First, the species has very low numbers, but plenty of food to go around, so the species multiply at a fairly high rate. Next, there is a balance. The food source is able to sustain the population, but there isn’t much left over. Finally, the species is over populated. Now there isn’t enough food to go around. Starvation is taking place and diseases start killing in mass numbers. Now we go back to the first part of the cycle again since the numbers were just decreased.

Setting out food does not help this situation – ever. And especially if it is to attract only the cream of the crop, so that a hunter can fill his “one tag”.

But, here we are. It is indeed much more complicated, isn’t it. I mean, Dan, you are a tax paying business owner who rents out tree stands to bear hunters. I wonder if you bait those stands? No wonder you sounded so angry in your post. I wonder what would happen to your business if this type of hunting were to all of the sudden become illegal? I’m sure your representatives would not allow that to happen, since you have a vote, and so do the hunters. Laws and regulations will follow.

I live in central Virginia, a state with a lot to offer any animal, including bear. Ocean and coastal plains to the east, the piedmont in the center and the mountains to the west. Agriculture everywhere. I mentioned earlier that where I live isn’t over populated with bear. In fact, the bear season was closed in the two counties that I hunt most, since the numbers were low last year. I have often wondered why that is? I could be wrong, but I think there is a connection.

I get sick of it too Dan, but I get sick for another reason. People pretending that it is some great accomplishment to kill an animal over a bait pile. If I needed the meat, I'd do it to, and be really happy for it. But I hunt to challenge myself.

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I sounded angry? Maybe I sounded angry to you, because I disagreed with you. I was stating a fact that you are posting your opinions on a topic that you admittedly are ignorant about, and not asking questions.

Do I bait bear? Of course. If I didn't I would not have posted an off the cuff comment about something I am ignorant about. If they closed the season would it financially ruin me? Nope, I do it more for the joy of taking people hunting and getting them their trophy. Representatives not allow it to happen? LOL, they already closed the spring season.

Your last statement is like many other on here, an opinion based on your ego. You just can't get over the fact that some people hunt different than you and you don't like it. That's fine, but keep it to yourself and quit dividing hunters. Plus like I said earlier, baiting bear is no walk in the park. Getting trophy bears to show themsleves during daylight is extremely difficult.

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Dan,
You've got it all wrong. I don't care what you, or anyone else does/hunts.

I however, like to step into the woods with what I am carrying and start hunting. Unfamiliar territory is really cool to me. It gives me a sense of accomplishment to know that I can walk into the woods just about anywhere and start hunting and survive.

If I were to get stranded in the forest somewhere, my first plan would not to be to try to find a stash of apples to sit over, in a ladder stand that someone else placed there,and wait for a bear to come. I'd probably pick up a few apples, put them in my pack for later and hit the trail.

I'm not bothered that anyone baits. What bothers me is the "hey look what I did" attitude, as if it were at all noteworthy.

Respectfully,

KP

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Nice comeback.With that statement I can see an intelligent conversation with you has gone down the drain.

Take care.

-Dan

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Yes down the drain. Nothing intelligent to offer here…

Dan, I admitted that I was ignorant and gave you many opportunities to explain your position. You elected to be very vague in your answers and pretend to not understand my questions.

I'm ignorant to gay prison sex too, and guess what - I'm pretty sure I wouldn't enjoy that either, but who knows, since I'm ignorant and all...

You ever tried it Dan?

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I answered everything you asked. You made a bunch more statements, were they supposed to be questions? If they were, sorry, I didn't know I was supposed to read into them.

But, with your extremely childish statement in your last post, I am completely done with you.

Take care and I hope you grow up soon.

Bye!

-Dan

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Asstated before the two most important reasons for baiting bears(besides drawing them outduring the day) is to be sure you aren't killing a sow w/cubs and to judge the size of the bear. Most archery bear hunts are over bait for these reasons. Yes it's a bigger accomplishment to do it without, but if it's legal and ethically okay with you then do it! To each his own!

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In british columbia we can`t bait bears deer but not bears. You don`t really want to bait bears here cause you can get grizz coming to your bait station. Do you have to bait here no . And who has more bush and big woods then we do. In the spring i can see a dozen bears a day So i have never baited but spot and stalk a big black with a bow if you ever did it you would never sit over again.

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I agree sl, it is a very rewarding way to hunt and you are able to move around and galss several bears in a day while enjoying some great scenery. However your land allows you to do that, ours does not. Here it is flatter than pi$$ on a platter and solid. The bush near me i really have to search for an open spot. When everything is leafed out you cannot see 5 feet inside it. We have some logging cuts but not as many as B.C no large glades,medows, mountain sides etc and once you hit the Canadian Shield she is solid rock. I agree if i lived in B.C i would not use a bait, however here i do not know anyone who spring hunts without one.

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You wont see Tred Barta doing no spot and stalk Bear Hunt in my State, He would not even get film of Him Missing!!! Bears in my part of the State are reclusive, nocturnal, and unpatternable. A big Boar can cover 5 miles in a night, they might eat Berrries 2 days in one spot and be eating Acorns 2 miles away tomorrow, or do both the same night. For those that think Bear Hunting over Bait is nothing more than droping a pile of bait in the Big Bear woods, and sitting around waiting for one,are under some sort of Delusional Assumption. It's just as hard to Establish a Big Bore Bear Bait as it is to pick a stand for a Book size Whitetial, if not harder in some places, and would compare it to Scrape Hunting Mature Bucks. There is no less Scouting involved than there is Deer Hunting, Looking for Tracks, Stripped and or Broken Limbs, Marked Trees, Scent Posts, Overturned Logs, Torn up Stumps, Wallows, and so on. After all the scouting is done, and you have picked a spot to place a bait the work Begins, packing bait in often enough to keep a Bear interested enough to come back, and even if he does come back, does not mean you will ever see Him! Dont have to take my word for it, check the stats in States that allow Baiting, I think you will find it's no where near 100%. I have never Baited for Deer, never needed to!

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You can place" one " stand to cover a bait pile.Where do youplace " one "stand tocover all300 acres ofa corn field?? I am not following you on how a baitpile and a corn field is the same. A baitpile concentrates the deer to a specific very small area.300 acres isn't what I consider a specificvery small area. Deer can'thide in a bait pile... they can in a corn field.

You can't generalize.Each is different. Just as comparing ag land hunting to big woods huntingor bear hunting to deer hunting. We seem to get locked up in our own little world and judge others on our own little world. These forums should show us that there is a bigger world out there then our own little world.

Each statesets up guide lines ( laws )to manage animal populations. Baiting bearsis an effecient way of managing them when other methods won't work for that area. Bottom line... the bears need to be managed by the state.

Deer.... we have a lot more methods for hunting and more people hunting them compared to bears. While baitingcan be aneffective way ofkilling deer, there are downsides. Those downsides can and do effect hunters who don't bait. There is your problem in a nutshell. I don't surf the bear forums as we don't have bears here and I haveno real interest in traveling to hunt them.Are there as manybear baiting bashing threads... errr debates in the bear forums like we seein the deer forums?? Does bear baiting effect the non-baiting bear hunter in the same area?? I bet not and think you are comparing apples to oranges... eeerrrrr bait piles to corn fields.

Tim

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Tim:

Fair outlook......but if you have 3 acres of shelled corn or 3 acres of soy beans......what's the REAL difference?

FOR THE RECORD:
I live in a state that allows baiting. I keep a feeder up all year long (except during turkey season....and then it's just empty) to feed the deer. I hunted over this feeder, some, my first season......and baited a certain field with apples, that year. I talked to some guys here that I trust a LOT when it comes to all things DEER. They convinced me to try something this year that would change the way I deer hunted, .......FOREVER. They convinced me that it was easier to kill deer (around here, at least) when you were NOT hunting over bait. They told me deer coming to bait were extremely skiddish (which I've found them to be)....and that animals traveling their normal routes aren't (which I've found to be true). I can ONLY say for me that NOT hunting bait (for deer.....which is all I can speak intelligently to) has made a HUGE difference in my success.

The only reason I mention THAT is........it's typically the people sho've never hunted over bait that seem to know all about it (and I PROMISE I'm singling NO ONE out when I say that). It's also funny that a lot of the same people that find baiting deer disgusting.....will seemingly have no problems with baiting other animals (or sitting on a water hole in Africa). It just seems hypocritical, to me.

This thread was tointended to just make people think aboutothers.....and look outside the box.

Dan.....I'll be in your area this weekend. We have friends in Ontario.....and we'reheaded up there, Friday night. We're headed to Huntsville, Saturday morning. I packed my warm undies.

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Real simple answer, Herd Control, they allow baiting in wisconsin in areas that are not eradication zones and have an over population in areas.

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I have no problem with baiting either. But get real Jeff, who spreads shelled corn out over 3 acres? Your comparison is a little out there.

Actually, you won't be even close to my area. Ontario is a huge Province and my camp is on the other end, almost in Manitoba. Plus, I'm in Wisconsin right now. [8D]

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Dan...

My point was.....everyone wants to draw a line of distinction between food plots/ Ag. crops and baiting. I don't see much difference between the two. It's a personal opinon.....and not really relative to why I posted this.

In NC......if I were rifle hunting and wanted to.....I could put corn in a spreader on the ATV and spread it all over a cut corn field to draw deer in. I know people who do it. That's why I made the comparison.

have a great week.

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fellow northwoods hunter, how do you feel about baiting? It seems to me like it is not beneficial to anyone but the guy sitting over the bait pile.

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hey fellas same ol stuff....just do the legal and eat