Anyone thought of this?
02-08-2007, 11:54 AM
#31
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Brampton Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,038
RE: Anyone thought of this?
I'm not really sold on this theory. Sounds to me that's more like testing the sharpness or the broadhead, as against the ke it takes to penetrate the hide.
It's like walking up to a stationary vehicleto see how hard you'd be hit--as against a vehicle moving at a speedand runs into you.
Obviously the later of the two would do much more damage.
The fact nevertheless is a 'sharper' broadhead WILL cause more blood loss compared to a broadhead that's not as sharp. Ke and penetrationaren't alike.
It's like walking up to a stationary vehicleto see how hard you'd be hit--as against a vehicle moving at a speedand runs into you.
Obviously the later of the two would do much more damage.
The fact nevertheless is a 'sharper' broadhead WILL cause more blood loss compared to a broadhead that's not as sharp. Ke and penetrationaren't alike.
02-08-2007, 01:31 PM
#33
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Anyone thought of this?
I'm wondering if they pulled the hide to "deer taughtness" and SHOT the different broadheads at them.....if they'd be able to discern a difference????
And, if not......what good was the test???
Then.....I'd like to see a similar test done pressing each broadhead tip against BONE and pushing until something "gave". The let's shoot those same broadheads at bone.
THAT'S why I use a heavy, chisel-tipped broadhead. Going through the hide is like a razor into hot butter for ANY broadhead shot from a bow (unless it's a VERY acute angle).
And, if not......what good was the test???
Then.....I'd like to see a similar test done pressing each broadhead tip against BONE and pushing until something "gave". The let's shoot those same broadheads at bone.
THAT'S why I use a heavy, chisel-tipped broadhead. Going through the hide is like a razor into hot butter for ANY broadhead shot from a bow (unless it's a VERY acute angle).
02-08-2007, 01:56 PM
#34
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,927
RE: Anyone thought of this?
ORIGINAL: bigbulls
There are benefits and draw backs to both designs.
The COC style of heads like the phantom and stingers areamazingly efficientwhen no bone is encountered as they slice from the get go where the chisel heads must "punch" through that hide and muscle.
However, the chisel type of heads shines when heavy bone is encountered becasue it tends to shatter the bone and allows the blades and arrow shaftto pass thru those bones with less resistance where as the COC heads must slice through that bone and thus create more drag on the blades and arrow shaft.
There are benefits and draw backs to both designs.
The COC style of heads like the phantom and stingers areamazingly efficientwhen no bone is encountered as they slice from the get go where the chisel heads must "punch" through that hide and muscle.
However, the chisel type of heads shines when heavy bone is encountered becasue it tends to shatter the bone and allows the blades and arrow shaftto pass thru those bones with less resistance where as the COC heads must slice through that bone and thus create more drag on the blades and arrow shaft.
02-08-2007, 02:57 PM
#35
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Anyone thought of this?
You have a log and you want to split the log. Which is going to take less effort from you, a fairly sharp wedge or a steel rod with a dull rounded point
I know of Dr. Ashby and his tests and I don't agree with much of his findings. Mosts of his published tests were done many years ago (mid 80's)with much different equipment. There has been much over the recent years to greatly disproove his findings. Take a slick trick broadhead for isntance. According to him this broadhead wouldn't penetrate worth a flip but we all know just how wrong that is.
02-08-2007, 03:11 PM
#36
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location:
Posts: 1,927
RE: Anyone thought of this?
Depends on the orientation of the broadhead when you contact the bone. Bone does have a grain that runs it's length and can be split. I think chisel points were made to offset the tip failures of most needle point broadheads. I think a strong tip COC will bust through most bone, especially of deer.
02-08-2007, 03:15 PM
#37
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,679
RE: Anyone thought of this?
http://www.tradgang.com/ashby/2005update1.pdf
Go tot he bottom and see his own pictures of COC heads and bones.
More times than not a COC head will cut bone rether than shatter it. Regardless of how the blades are oriented to the bone.
Go tot he bottom and see his own pictures of COC heads and bones.
More times than not a COC head will cut bone rether than shatter it. Regardless of how the blades are oriented to the bone.
02-08-2007, 03:18 PM
#38
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 72
RE: Anyone thought of this?
I used to have a video that was made in the 80's, where a guy pulled deer hide down over broadheads. COC heads went through the easiest. He didn't have a scale under the arrow though. But what always worried me about COC heads was "tip fold over", after hitting bone.Being a butcher on the side I have pulled COC heads out of deer and have seen it for myself. That said, I think todays COC heads are much stronger. COC's, chisel points, doesn't matter todays bows pack more than enough KE to put either through a deer.
02-08-2007, 03:25 PM
#39
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location:
Posts: 24
RE: Anyone thought of this?
ORIGINAL: strutnbuck
Recently at a bow hunt, I was listening to a guy that has primarily bow hunted his entire life and taken game from all around the world talk about bow hunting. He brought up a point that I had never thought of. The amount of pressure that it takes for a broadhead to pass thru a deer hide. I have shot 3 and 4 blade muzzys since they came out and had pretty good success with them, but according to him, he has taken a majority of the broadheads on the market, held the arrows on the scale, pulling the deer hide over the broadhead to measure the pounds needed to pass thru. He told me that the 3 blade muzzy was around 12 lbs. The G5 Montec at 21 lbs, and a few other popular broadheads in the teens. He said that the muzzy phantom was 4lbs. Well I bought some phantoms and since I do taxidermy tested my 4 blades and the phantoms. The 4 bladed muzzy passed thru at 13lbs, the phantom at 4.5lbs. I am now shooting the phantoms.....I want every advantage!
Recently at a bow hunt, I was listening to a guy that has primarily bow hunted his entire life and taken game from all around the world talk about bow hunting. He brought up a point that I had never thought of. The amount of pressure that it takes for a broadhead to pass thru a deer hide. I have shot 3 and 4 blade muzzys since they came out and had pretty good success with them, but according to him, he has taken a majority of the broadheads on the market, held the arrows on the scale, pulling the deer hide over the broadhead to measure the pounds needed to pass thru. He told me that the 3 blade muzzy was around 12 lbs. The G5 Montec at 21 lbs, and a few other popular broadheads in the teens. He said that the muzzy phantom was 4lbs. Well I bought some phantoms and since I do taxidermy tested my 4 blades and the phantoms. The 4 bladed muzzy passed thru at 13lbs, the phantom at 4.5lbs. I am now shooting the phantoms.....I want every advantage!
