Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
01-25-2007, 09:16 AM
#1
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
I sent this letter to the NCWRC:
Hello:
I have access to hunt a deer herd that is protected for several hundred acres by an area that does not allow hunting. I have sole access to hunt these deer.....and that's part of the problem. The herd needs to be kept more balanced, and I've vowed to do my part. With the over the counter extra doe tags on the table....I now have a real chance to make a difference.
In 46 hunts, last season....I saw 344 deer, from stand. Of these....only 40 were antlered bucks. I know that I saw several of the same deer on multiple occasions, but over the period of a season.....the skewed numbers (ratio) doesn't lie.
If I am to thin does from this herd.....which does should I target? Or...should I not be picky? I'd like to take 8-10 does from this herd THIS COMING SEASON.....and check the numbers, next year. What would be the NCWRC's plan of action, for me?
Thanks, in advance, for your response.
Sincerely,
I got this in response:
My name is Chris Kreh and I am the Wildlife Biologist for District 7, which includes ForsythCounty. A great deal of my job is working with deer hunting clubs, regulations, and harvest management. I am glad to hear that you are committed to managing for a well balanced deer herd. I'll try to address your specific questions, but please feel free to contact me by e-mail or phone if you would like to discuss things further. I would be interested to hear more specifics about your area.
Focusing your harvest pressure on does is certainly a good course of action. The fact that the local area is receiving no other hunting pressure, along with the relatively high numbers of deer you observe when hunting, leads me to believe that the herd is overabundant. Removing does from the population will certainly help keep it in check, if not to decrease it. It is not necessary to select a certain type of doe for harvest. They are all capable of breeding and the desired effect would be the same. I think targeting 6 or more does is a good course of action. You may not have an observable benefit in the short term, but you definitely will not do any harm. If you would be willing to extract the jawbone from the deer you kill, I could age them for you and give you some more specific information. If you want to pursue this just give me a call I'll give you some more information of how to do it.
The sex ratio your observations suggest may not be indicative of the true sex ratio of the local herd. Behavior differences may account for much of the discrepancy: bucks are generally more secretive and less predictable than does, and therefore less likely to be seen. Also, fawns are born into a deer herd at a 50/50 ratio, and you would expect a herd that received little hunting pressure to maintain a sex ratio along those lines. Skewed sex ratios generally result from harvesting most of the bucks and very few does from the population. In heavily hunted populations the actual sex ratio rarely exceeds 2.5-3 does/buck, although the observed sex ratio may be considerably higher than that.
Here are a few other things to keep in mind. The "bonus doe tags" have not been officially approved by the Commission. If they are not approved you may want to recruit some other hunters if you want to take more than 6 deer. Alternatively, if you have at least 500 acres in your hunting area you would be eligible for the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP). DMAP would enable you to obtain additional doe tags also.
Hope that helps,
Chris
I just found this to be interesting.
Hello:
I have access to hunt a deer herd that is protected for several hundred acres by an area that does not allow hunting. I have sole access to hunt these deer.....and that's part of the problem. The herd needs to be kept more balanced, and I've vowed to do my part. With the over the counter extra doe tags on the table....I now have a real chance to make a difference.
In 46 hunts, last season....I saw 344 deer, from stand. Of these....only 40 were antlered bucks. I know that I saw several of the same deer on multiple occasions, but over the period of a season.....the skewed numbers (ratio) doesn't lie.
If I am to thin does from this herd.....which does should I target? Or...should I not be picky? I'd like to take 8-10 does from this herd THIS COMING SEASON.....and check the numbers, next year. What would be the NCWRC's plan of action, for me?
Thanks, in advance, for your response.
Sincerely,
I got this in response:
My name is Chris Kreh and I am the Wildlife Biologist for District 7, which includes ForsythCounty. A great deal of my job is working with deer hunting clubs, regulations, and harvest management. I am glad to hear that you are committed to managing for a well balanced deer herd. I'll try to address your specific questions, but please feel free to contact me by e-mail or phone if you would like to discuss things further. I would be interested to hear more specifics about your area.
Focusing your harvest pressure on does is certainly a good course of action. The fact that the local area is receiving no other hunting pressure, along with the relatively high numbers of deer you observe when hunting, leads me to believe that the herd is overabundant. Removing does from the population will certainly help keep it in check, if not to decrease it. It is not necessary to select a certain type of doe for harvest. They are all capable of breeding and the desired effect would be the same. I think targeting 6 or more does is a good course of action. You may not have an observable benefit in the short term, but you definitely will not do any harm. If you would be willing to extract the jawbone from the deer you kill, I could age them for you and give you some more specific information. If you want to pursue this just give me a call I'll give you some more information of how to do it.
The sex ratio your observations suggest may not be indicative of the true sex ratio of the local herd. Behavior differences may account for much of the discrepancy: bucks are generally more secretive and less predictable than does, and therefore less likely to be seen. Also, fawns are born into a deer herd at a 50/50 ratio, and you would expect a herd that received little hunting pressure to maintain a sex ratio along those lines. Skewed sex ratios generally result from harvesting most of the bucks and very few does from the population. In heavily hunted populations the actual sex ratio rarely exceeds 2.5-3 does/buck, although the observed sex ratio may be considerably higher than that.
Here are a few other things to keep in mind. The "bonus doe tags" have not been officially approved by the Commission. If they are not approved you may want to recruit some other hunters if you want to take more than 6 deer. Alternatively, if you have at least 500 acres in your hunting area you would be eligible for the Deer Management Assistance Program (DMAP). DMAP would enable you to obtain additional doe tags also.
Hope that helps,
Chris
I just found this to be interesting.
01-25-2007, 09:21 AM
#2
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
He also said that me taking a buck would ONLY hurt in one way.....if tags were limited....it would limit the number of does I was taking by 1. No harm in taking one, at all (and I'll decide that throughout the year and will wait to see about the new extra doe tags).
He said I could have 2-3 hunters come in with me and shoot 6 apiece and not hurt anything. We're gonna be shooting does in my woods, this year.
He said I could have 2-3 hunters come in with me and shoot 6 apiece and not hurt anything. We're gonna be shooting does in my woods, this year.
01-25-2007, 09:32 AM
#3
Fork Horn
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 434
RE: Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
Looks like you might be feeling bad alot next year about killing deer...LOL
Just screwing with you Jeff sounds like you might have a fun season.
We can shoot 6 deer in Oklahoma. We had a ranch that got the DMAP tags and very few ever got used.
MC
Just screwing with you Jeff sounds like you might have a fun season.
We can shoot 6 deer in Oklahoma. We had a ranch that got the DMAP tags and very few ever got used.
MC
01-25-2007, 09:42 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location:
Posts: 21,043
RE: Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
I know you're kidding MC.....but I don't feel bad about it. I just take no pleasure in it.
The only issue I'm going to have issue with (internally) is taking does with fawns. I have to decide how I'm going to address this, internally. His advice was to not pass up an opportunity to take a doe....even if it meant the fawn not surviving.
I'm not that hardco........
I'm not "there", yet....may never be. I think I'll start taking does without fawns (likely, huh????).....then does WITH fawns after maybe 10/1, or so (according to the visible health/stature of the fawns).
It'll be an interesting year.....especially if I get the extra tags. Anybody visiting me better get your nanny-'nialatin' hat on. Shoot 'em all!
The only issue I'm going to have issue with (internally) is taking does with fawns. I have to decide how I'm going to address this, internally. His advice was to not pass up an opportunity to take a doe....even if it meant the fawn not surviving.
I'm not that hardco........
I'm not "there", yet....may never be. I think I'll start taking does without fawns (likely, huh????).....then does WITH fawns after maybe 10/1, or so (according to the visible health/stature of the fawns).
It'll be an interesting year.....especially if I get the extra tags. Anybody visiting me better get your nanny-'nialatin' hat on. Shoot 'em all!
01-25-2007, 10:08 AM
#8
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: North Lima Ohio & Clarion Pa
Posts: 6,453
RE: Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
ORIGINAL: GMMAT
If you're used to killing baby deer..... scouting for next season seems futile. On the other hand.....I suppose you could pattern their mothers.
If you're used to killing baby deer..... scouting for next season seems futile. On the other hand.....I suppose you could pattern their mothers.
01-25-2007, 11:04 AM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Heaven is my home, temporarily residing in WNY :)
Posts: 6,679
RE: Taking does from the herd......"my" herd
That's it Jeff ....... will you marry me? LOL ,,,, just kidding.....How about adopting me? .....um .... heck with it, can my famil and I live in a tent on your property??