RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

lawnfarmer

Re: <BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>....and forget all the tehnical crap <hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

If you choose to base your choice of what is quality and what will perform well in the field, on a test that uses an improper medium and model, a test void of &quot;technical crap,&quot; that, indeed, is your choice. Others may be more selective.

I am sure 5shot's effort is appreciated and his intent is well-meant. However, possibly hurting someone's ego must always take last place behind facts and validity.

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

c903 HAs a point. I don't think he is trying to refute 5shots other tests, just this one. He IS right on many parts, and it would take a LOT of research to find very accurate numbers.
That said, I think if we are worried about it, we should take some time and look at the design of our broadheads. Looking at 4 VERY different heads, we can see that while there is SOME differances, they are NOT all that great.
I have posted some (REALLY BAD webcam style) pics showing some ROUGH measurments. Logic would indicate that heads with higher angles should deflect more easily. That is, if the blade hits before the tip, it is likely to deflect dramaticly.
While the slick tricks were high (32 degrees) they were not THAT far from the Muzzy (22 blades with a 26 degree angle on the tip) and better than the shockwave (35/41 as it opens)
The question is: Does 10 degrees make THAT much of a differance? I'll leave that for discussion.
BTW....the web page to see the ROUGH measurmentsis
http://webpages.charter.net/acerf1000r


Edited by - Stealth_Force on 11/26/2002 02:24:58

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

Oh boy! I am in over my head now<img src=icon_smile_clown.gif border=0 align=middle>:) c903, I agree with you that deer hide and luon board are not a deer. It does not react to the shot, it is not lubricated throughout, and it doens't have the bumbs and &quot;holes&quot; a real deer would. My test was not meant to actually say what would happen in a deer. I have been around way to long and seen some very strange things in animals. The test does however show how two differnt broadheads compare in the identical material, shot at the same angle, from the same distance at the same time. The deer hide was fresh, and very slippery( it had been rained on). My point with these tests is that I feel with good shot choices the Slick Trick heads should preform well. I can see any head deflecting on to steep and angle, in fact I once had a shot gun slug &quot;ride&quot; along the ribcage on steep quartering shot. Broke every rib going up and lodging in the shoulder. I cut an artery runing down the front leg and recoverd the deer. If a shot gun slug can do that, I know a broadhead tipped arrow will! My point to all of this was to see if their was some kind of major defect in the slick trick's that made quartering shots impossible, or not recomended. I think I showed that to some degree any way, that they work pretty well. Yes they did skip a little more than a more &quot;conventional&quot; head, but only an 1&quot;, which in my mind is not all that great considering the steep angle. I don't dispute any of what you say really, but like in my broadhead tests, the materials and information provided only show how the heads do compared to one another in identical materials. Take this knowledge, based on what I know from the deer I have killed with a bow amd similer broadheads, and I will make a semi-educated guess that the Slick Trick heads will work fine with a properly tuned bow and arrow combination and eithical shot placement. Now, thier will always be the exception, and like I said before, a lot of strange things can happen in living animals once and arrow strikes.

TAKE YOUR KIDS HUNTING AND YOU WON'T BE HUNTING FOR YOUR KIDS

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

Stealth Force is exactly right on this one- blade angle and the distance from the blades to the tip of the head will determine how much an arrow *might* plane (I say might because weird s**t happens, as we all know). Some of you will recall that over the last several years, quite a few people have posted about having Spitfires planing inside of deer just like the Slick Trick did. I had it happen twice with Spitfires- once having the arrow come out the same side it went in on a quartering away shot. Like the ST's, Spitfires have a steep blade angle.

The steeper a blade is, the more force that is needed for it to cut. If only one blade is cutting- and one blade always hits first on an angled shot- the arrow will veer away from that blade UNLESS THE TIP IS EMBEDDED deeply enough to prevent this from happening. When you have a short tip, like the Slick Tricks, the blade may hit the deer before the tip does. Viola- it planes. Think about it this way- if the broadhead blades were halfway up the arrow, it would be impossible for it to plane because so much arrow would be in the deer before the blades made contact.

5 shot- your tests are always appreciated. You are the reason I switched to Snypers, which I should add might have the lowest angle of any broadhead out there- which should mean less of a chance of planing.

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

5-shot what type of steep angle are we talking about in your tests? Was it greater then 45 degrees.

In general, I would only recommend up to a 45 degree on deer anyway.

Again, thanks for your tests. And thank you to C903 also.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

One last thing to consider on this issue is the fact that the orientation of the blades when the arrow contacts the deer (or the test target). A 3 blade broadhead is (effectively) triangular if you look at it straight on- a 4 blade head is square. On a quartering shot, exactly how the broadhead is rotated when it hits the deer could affect how much it planes.

Using Stealth's pictures- if he rotated the heads a bit, the angle would decrease between the blades. On a 3 blade head- there are only 3 spots on the broadhead where a single blade would contact the rib cage. On a 4 blade head there is a greater chance that one blade will happen to be oriented on the &quot;short&quot; side- causing planing. I'm picking nits here, but it's interesting to think about. At the very least, you would have to take several shots so that you would have the broadhead strike at each angle in order to know all the planing possibilities. It's impossible, of course.

So, in theory, a two bladed head would have the least chance of having a single projecting blade strike a rib and begin to plane....

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

Well I think I will throw in my 4 cents worth, the first 2 cents are that I concur with what PatapscoMike said in regards to number of blades increasing the probability of planing, now for the second 2 cents worth, it seems to me a mechanical with a long distance between the tip of the tip and the blades would be the least likely to plane of them all.

5shot keep up the good work, the real bummer is that there is no way to replicate every possible scenario of a broadhead striking/penetrating a deer.

The Tazman aka Martin Price
Founder and President of
Virginia Disabled Outdoorsmen Club

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

Yeah Taz- except most mech's have blades that need to swing open from front to back before they get to that good angle. On a perpendicular shot the design functions flawlessly. But on a sharp angle shot, , they are being forced into flesh on the short side (at 200+ fps) as they open, and keep in mind that the leading edges of these blades are dull (the part that grabs and opens the head)... I think they start to plane as that short-side blade swings open.

Again, this is why I like the rearward opening blades of the Snyper. The tip bites first, then the blades just slide out backwards without having to pivot around 180 degrees.

RE: Slick Trick broadhead deflection tests completed
 

Thanks for the tests.

You got to love this board where else can you get these kind of scientific results.

c903 thanks for taking me back to coefficient of friction:) (yes I had to look down to his post to see how to spell it)
I would have to agree with you that this was not a very scientific test.

At the same time I agree with 5 shot that it was a good way to compare two broadheads on the same type of material. I think the results proved that these two part. heads are very simular.

I just feel like agreeing with everyone today. Maybe it was that coyote I shot on the way to work today.<img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>

&quot; Anyone can be a father, but it takes a real man to be a Dad&quot;