No man's land
 

Yes. I performed a search. Nothing.

I've been hunting deer only 1+ yrs. In that time....I've butchered 11 animals, though (4 of mine). I'm having a hard time believing this place exists......WHEN THE WEAPON IS A BROADHEAD TIPPED ARROW.....AND ITS SHOT FROM AN ELEVATED PERCH.

I can be swayed, though......if someone will provide some good evidence to the contrary.

Thanks

Jeff

RE: No man's land
 

No comments?????

I'm surprised!

Jeff

RE: No man's land
 

I have to agree SB. In 17 years I have never seen where that would be possible. I have been wrong before.

RE: No man's land
 

Here is my theory

No mans land has been created by poor setups. Meaning a high hit use to punch through the rib cage, is now deflecting of it. Because of arrow weight being too light and arrow not spined correctly. Mech are issue here I think also. Do I think there is a no mans land, no. Do I think bad setups are causing hunters to lose deer, Yes!

RE: No man's land
 

I do think there is a spot where you can put an arrow into the front of the chest cavity and not kill the animal. It is unlikely that this will happen though when shooting from an elevated perch. I do also think that the majority of the time when people think they hit this spot, they indeed did not and actually hit above the spine. The spine is lower than most think or realize.

My stepmom is a vet, and she will claim that ruminants do indeed have a small space between lungs and spine in the chest cavity, especially if the lungs aren't fully inflated at the time of impact. We had 2 sheep that were shot in our field in front of the house when I was a kid. Both were shot in the same place, one died and one lived. I was there and helped with the surgery on the animal that lived andshe definitely had a hole going into the chest cavity between lungs and spine without hitting anything. Other than bleeding, there were no major complications and the sheep lived a happy healthy life.

RE: No man's land
 

Take it for what it's worth, but I shot a doe this year and hit her high and a bit far back. Judging from what I saw it looked like it hit directly above where the liver would be. 25 yard shot from a treestand at 20 feet-ish. Clean pass through, nothing but some hair and a lot of fat on the arrow. Next to zero blood.

Since that day, this doe has been spotted two other times on the same property with no outward signs of a being injured other than a mark on her back where the arrow went through. One of these sightings was only seconds after she was hit as she casually walked through the woods, stopping every now and again to lick the wound, then feed and basically act as if nothing was wrong. The second sighting was nearly 3 weeks later as she was being pushed around by a buck during the rut. Again, no outward signs of injury other than the telltale marking on her back.

RE: No man's land
 

Those people who dont believe in "No Mans Land" are wrong and I hope they dont learn about it the hard way. If you butcher a deer it is easy to see the area where you cut out the backstraps...that area is about 3-4 inches high of just bone, if you add an inch of fat and additional muscle and probably 2 inches of fur it could appear to be as much as six inches above the spine!!! If you hit a deer here he will not die (at least not likely) and it can appear to be a good shot!!!!!!! I have hit deer there and seen them months later with little more than missing hair!!!!!!!!

I am suprised that anyone could dispute that this area exists...espicially after butchering a deer....

RE: No man's land
 

I killed a 8 point this year and to my suprise, when I rolled him over to look for the entry/exit hole, I found that he had been shot.

About 6 inches of aarow with a broadhead was still in the deer. The broadhead was about 1/2 inch below the spine and above the lungs. The angle of the aarow indicated to me that the hunter was on the ground when the shot was made.

The deer was not limping and he was behaving normal. He actually came into a grunt and can call. After I skinned him out, I found that the wound was nothing more than a flesh wound.

RE: No man's land
 

Intersting points, HuntnGus what type broadhead was it?

RE: No man's land
 

It was a fixed blade 100gr Satelite.........to the best of my knowledge.

The shot looked pretty good at the surface, but actually hit nothing.

RE: No man's land
 

Thx

Do think is deflected off, or just nothing to hit?

RE: No man's land
 

Not real sure. If it deflected off of anything it would have had to have been the spine, but you would think that would have dropped him if so.

RE: No man's land
 

Not knowing weight of the arrow and spine I would love to know. Underspined and under weight would the arrow have enough punch to get through? Would the arrow flex to much and deflect down or up?

I do not know, intersting topic

RE: No man's land
 

I have found wounds on deer that make me believe just about anything is possible.

RE: No man's land
 

I am in concurrence with this statement. I cannot count the amount of times I have been simply bewildered with how deer could live through some of the shots/wounds I've seen........ as well as the amount of blood loss on more than one occassion.

RE: No man's land
 

Well let me tell you a story about an elk hunt this year. I shot a small 3x4 bull at a water hole at approx 54 yards PASS THRU with an easton axis 400 with wasp boss bullet. I thought the shot was good and the guy I was with swore up and down it was good. A little high but good front to back. The next morning we found a very small blood trail and followed it for 400 yards and then it dried up! We followed tracks a little longer and then lost those as well. 7 hours we looked for that elk and never found it! Nor enough blood to convince us that it had passed. The thing ran straight up hill and over the top. SO TAKE IT FOR WHAT IT IS WORTH I AM A BELIEVER!!!

RE: No man's land
 

On two occasions I have seen deer take an arrow and leave with it protruding out of both sides. The first I watched for about 45 minutes after impactas it milled around a doe. Both shots looked good left to right both were what I would consider to be somewhat high.

This fall I took a young doe that had been shot sometime earlier this fall. It had to be a complete pass through for there was not broadhead or arrow in her when she was skinned. You could see where the three blade head had gone through her, again good left to right but high. She had some infection from the wound but I fully believe she would have been okay. She did not exhibit any signs of physical problems i.e. weight, limping etc.

Label this area what you want, all I know is I have seen enough real evidence to know that survival of a certain type of high hit is indeed possible and in many cases probable.

RE: No man's land
 

Passthrough, the "No Man's Land" or "No Zone" is considered above the lungs and below the spine, not above the spine.

Personally, I'm unsure. I've never shot a deer there personally, so I have no experience. But I do know for sure that hogs have them due to how low and forward the lungs sit in the chest cavity.

Also, I bleieve that elk have that area as well. It may be exaggerated due to the size of the animal, orthe fact that very few elk are taken out of a stand. But whatever it is, I believe it exists.

RE: No man's land
 

I am also a firm believer in "No man's land"

I've hit a deer in this spot. The arrow stayed in the deer.So, I saw exactly where it hit.I watched the deer go for abot75 yards.Fletching sticking out one side and the broadhed sticking out the other. I could hear the arrow hitting on twigs and brush as the deer trotted away.I was young and was using a Bear Whitetail bow. The shot was good left to right but a little too high. I, my father and some friends trailed the deer a long, long way. I'd guess a half mile but that was over 20 years ago. There wasn't much of a blood trail just a few drops here and there.

Most guys gut a deer with it on its back. Gravity causes the lungs to lay against the spine. They see this and assume that there is no " No man's land". If a deer is on the hoof and alive, gravity would cause the lungs to hang down. I believe if the lungs are deflated as a deer exhales, this would cause an arrow to pass through and not cause a vital hit.

RE: No man's land
 

i also believe in the no mans land area , two years ago i shot a doe at about 10 yards and due to the terrain she was almost level with me at the time , she went across the ravine and stood by a pine tree , about 25 yards away from me but due to the trees in the way i could not get another arrow into her , i was looking at the blood spot on her side getting bigger , she layed down for about 1/2 hour , got up and trotted away , i took up the trail about 2 hours later trailed for 3 hours till she got with enough other deer to wipe out any blood trail

RE: No man's land
 

I'm sure that you are all very good hunters, with very good ethics, but there is a problem with this type of post, at least in this location. There is no real useful information here. And before you reply, hear me out. If this were a conversation between known friends, it wouldn't be so dynamic, but... I'm sure that all of your stories are credible, but we are on the internet, and talking about hunting. A subject that many different people, with many different personality types are passionate about. They are either passionate about doing it, or stopping it.

I know a few hunters in my town, who can't hunt. In fact, if they had to in order to survive, they would no longer be with us. But these guys always have a good story. It is either about "super buck" who does some pretty crazy and creative stuff to get away, and no other hunter would have been successful either, thus being the reason they haven't gotten a good buck, because all the ones they see are this amazing. Or, they were able to get off a shot, but something didn't work out. Oh yeah, I remember, it is "the void". And they all love to talk about it. It is also my opinion that the people that I’m referring to, haven’t been able to even take a shot, they just need a good story as to why they don’t have this monster that they’re telling you about. “The void” is a great way to accomplish this.

SB,
This is in no way directed at you. Even though, we have disagreed in the past, I know you are a good and ethical hunter. We just seem to have a disagreement about firearms and different ways to hunt. That's all, and here is where I'm going with this - since you don't know these people (on the internet), and there is a possibility that some are just like the guys in my town that I described, and even if they’re not, they weren't there to see the shot, and no matter what they say... there will always be some doubt in your mind. Therefore, this post didn't accomplish anything, except! Providing statistics on at least one hunter to the anti's. They now know how long you've hunted, how many deer you've killed, and that you've now shot one and not retrieved it. And I'm not suggesting that you did anything wrong, its just that posting it here, didn't help you in anyway. You still aren’t sure about the future of the deer or “the void”.
Want to know about a void - next deer you shoot, take your time and dismantle it. Cut its ribs off before you gut it if you like. Look at "the void" and decide if it is possible for yourself. Have an arrow with you and hold it while you inspect all the different angles. I've done this, and it is my opinion that it does not exist, at least not if the direction of the arrow were in a downward angle, hit below the spin, and correct windage (not too far left or right) for the lungs.

VA5326,
How can you not count the number of deer that you've seen this happen to? What do you do for a living? Are you a guide for new hunters? Not that it has to happen to a new hunter, but to have so many. I'm not saying that it doesn't happen, but I've been hunting for a long time and have never seen it happen. But there are a lot of things I haven't seen. I just can't imagine how you could witness something so many times that I've never seen, and hope that I don't. I've only lost one deer in my life. And the reason that I lost it is because of a dispute between leased hunting land and private land. The hunt club guys were mad that they couldn't hunt our land, but we did provide written permission to track, but no firearms, was the only stipulation while tracking. They were caught hunting, and told to leave. They then tried to fool me into thinking that the written permission that I wrote meant that they could "hunt". I then educated them in a nice way, explained what it meant and asked them to leave. But when my deer went on their land, "Nope, sorry, if it were there we would have found it".

In industry there is a shared view of safety and accidents. It is, for an accident to take place, one of two things exists. They are - an unsafe act, or an unsafe condition. I like to think of wounded deer the same way. If a deer is shot and not retrieved there is a reason, and I don't think it is the mystical "void", magic, snake oil, health tonic or so on. The hunter either took a bad shot, one that he either was not skilled enough to take, or weren't ready to take at the moment for whatever reason, or there was an unforeseen, like an unnoticed limb in the way. Either way, it is the responsibility of the hunter to make certain that the shot is in fact a good one, right? I mean that is a pretty good way to describe or define ethics I would think. But accidents happen, I know that, and I will share this with you - I shot at a deer and missed with my bow this year. I hit a very small limb, and was very surprised at how much deflection there was. I'm just lucky I didn't hit it, but it was my fault that I did miss, it was my fault that I took an irresponsible shot, and I learned a lot from it.

WindWalker7,
If the lungssimply hung down during an exhale and created some empty cavity, and raised up into this empty void during inhale, why would the chest rise and fall? What would fill the void duringthe exhale when the lungs were collapsed?Something has to fill it, it isn't justempty space. Even if it were air, but where would the air in this cavity go when the deer inhaled and filled its lungs,taking up the previousempty space? I guess the only logical answer would be that it would have to leave the body, or exhale, but wait, the deer was inhaling, or was it exhaling?Maybe they have a blow hole like a dolphin, but it isn’t connected to lungs, just the void. No filter, just air and particulate, pollen, dirt, dust or whatever else, entering and exiting the void, so that the lungs have a cavity for them to work in. No, there is no void, just like you don’t have a void in yourchest, you have a diaphragmand so do the deer. Exhale, lungs empty, chest gets smaller. Inhale,lungs fill, chest gets bigger.
The fact is, the deer more often than not, go off and die when the shot for whatever reason doesn’t have enough terminal energy. I agree that there can be little or no blood on the ground, but that is what happens.
Of course some survive, but then again, some people do to when they’re shot. And a few live the rest of their lives with bullets in them, but no "void".
My post is not meant to be confrontational, I'm just trying to look out for our best interest.
Respectfully,
KP

RE: No man's land
 

Simply, there is no 'void' in the chest of a deer.There is a pleural 'cavity' but it's notbig enough on a healthy deer to squeeze a broadhead through.

On the other hand there are all sorts of places you can put an arrow into a deer and not kill it.

The spine lies much farther down that most people realize. Most so called void/no man's land hits are above the spine. The arrow hits the bony spinous processes and transverse processes of the vertebrae and that's why the arrow fails to completely pass through the deer.

The shape of a deer's chest cavity means that an arrow that manages to slide in right under the deer's spine will hit lung. The dorsal aorta lies under the spine too.

I think these aresome goodpictures showing just how low the spine dips.
(The farther forward, the lower the spine) The arrow is embedded in the spine.

RE: No man's land
 

Atta girl.

RE: No man's land
 

Please elaborate on this post; I am lost????

RE: No man's land
 

If lungs take in air, wouldn't that mean they inflate? My line of thinking would assume that lungs enlarge slightly as they fill with air. As you exhale, I'd also assume that they deflate and get slightly smaller.

I'm no doctor so I'm not sure what happens to air in the "void"

I remember a photo in a book. I believe it was John Trouts book on tracking deer ( Not for certain), where they removed the lungs and some guy had his mouth on the wind pipe and blew into the lungs inflating the lungs for the photo.

Anyone have that book?

All I know is we tracked that deer most of the day, that night and the following day. I was young and wanted that deer bad. Mostly went by tracks and upturnd leaves.

By the way, I think your post was confrontational.

This is where I saw the arrow on that deer I shot. I don't think the lungs are situated that high.

RE: No man's land
 

I concur with these two quotes.

I absolutley do not believe in a "void" area other than, behind the lungs and over the liver/under the spine, it's a very small area but you are still going to damage the diaphram. NO ONE, I repeat, no one can offer up a photograph showing a void. All anatomy photographs I have seen prove the lungs push up against the backbone.

I've cleaned a few whitetails in my 25 years of bowhunting, I never once remember feeling a pocket over the lungs, in contrast, the lungs are always up against, even on a animal on it's side, hung up or turned on it's back.

Two examples:

http://home.mn.rr.com/deerfever/Anatomy.html

http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=21358

If you send a broadhead high just under the lungs, you will catch at least one lung on said animal. (One lung, I cannot tell you right of left, is larger than the other) I will not believe otherwise. Do I think this kills the animal....NO, not every time. In the book I have read on "Blood Tracking For Finding Wounded Animals" by John Jeanenney there are pictures of healthy animals that were taken by bowhunting on an Island in NY. They then did autopsy's on the animals and there were cases where there were lungs with scar tissue on them. I firmly believe you can damage a lung and not deflate it, or cut enough blood vessels to cause bleed out or hemorraging which is what's necessary for a broadhead to "Kill".

Broadheads kill by hemorraging, even in the lungs which usually causes them to deflate, or the deer to drown in it's own blood etc....etc...

You cannot slide a 3 blade broadhead under the spine and not catch the lungs, unless your forward or back of the lungs. A two blade, perhaps but the odds are tremendously against this. Don't forget as well, the major artery that runs along the spine and the spinal cord itself.

Like was said, I am a firm believer that many people don't know the antomy of the game they are chasing or what the so called "void" area is by examples set already here within this thread.

As you go up and back on the lungs the blood vessels reduce, the majority of the oxygen carried into and from the lungs are from the middle forward, but again, can you send a broadhead through the lungs and not deflate them. Yes I believe that is possible. Can you send one through without hemorraging the animal to death, yes, I believe that is possible becuase I believe to many hunters don't use brand new blades or blades that are not as sharp as they should be. I believe there are bowhunters who take shortcuts and then say they hit a void area because they either did not do things right for the shot or after the shot.

I've hit animals in this area people assume is a void area. I know that I had to catch the top lobes of the lungs but I did not damage them enough to cause the death of the animal. If you want to call that the void area, you go right ahead but I believe you are spreading a myth and an excuse for the next guy. Some deer will die, some will not and I use GregH's photo for an example. We all look at that photo in disbelief but I for one say hey, whitetails are amazing, they are survivalist.

RE: No man's land
 

Windwalker, if you use your spot on your deer and put it on the photo of the anatomy that Rob just linked, the second one, it shows that your red dot hits the top of the lungs or bottom of the spine. Like he said, perhaps that's the case. I don't believe in the void either but I too believe the lungs can be damaged and not destroyed. Just my 2 cents.

RE: No man's land
 

That's what it looks like to me as well, OR, the arrow deflected from the spine, not breaking it or the spinal cord and deflected forward nicking one lung, the animal can survive.

The photo's in the book by John Jeanenney show pretty good scares on the lungs, almost centered. I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't see it.

RE: No man's land
 

I just know that this is where I hit. The bow was a Bear Whitetail shooting about 50lbs. The arrow did not do a complete pass through.

I remember watching the deer trot away and I could hear the alluminum arrow hitting twigs and brush. I was young and very excited but I remember it pretty well. Maybe I did catch one lung and it wasn'y lethal. I just know we tracked it quite a ways. Found just enough blood to know we were on the right trail. The deer was using it's senses and taking deer trails. We followed a long way and possibly jumped it the following day. I wanted that deer bad so I didn't give up easy.

I just know that when I gut a deer, the chest cavity inside the ribcage has alot of space in there. The lungs don't fill it all up. There's always a lot of blood and clots in there sloshing around. Just seems like a lot of empty space in there. And when I consider gravity pulling the lungs down towards the bottom of the chest cavity, I think there is an air pocket there. Maybe I'm wrong.

I guess a veterinarian could answer this.

RE: No man's land
 

Not unless they have a MRI of a standing animal, specifically the whitetail.

http://forums.mathewsinc.com/viewtopic.php?t=21358

I think that is about as good example and there can be without having a Xray/MRI but wouldn't you think that's where this one came from?

RE: No man's land
 

Even though "experiences" don't seem to hold much water to some (from the replies read), I would like say that I have had an experience almost identical to Windwalker7. Several years ago, I arrowed a doe (from the ground) in almost the same place. Never recovered her, but was able to see her a few weeks later. Even though the arrow stuck out both sides when she walked off, it was no longer in her during the 2nd sighting.

I've never seen enough credible evidence from either side of the "Void" debate, to prove anything 100%. But I beleive in my experience 100%.

Joey

RE: No man's land
 

I was going to wait until later when I was close to done to post about my deer this year but this topic interests me for personal reasons. So far this year I've downed a 90 lb. doe and a main frame 9 point with 2 stickers on his left. Both of them after I was ready to quit hunting. I missed a HUGE buck a week before I took the doe and. Opening week I shot a nice 8. The shot was a little high and back. No pass thru. He bucked like a mule and ran to my right and circled around me. I heard him stop once for just a second and then ran some more stopping what sounded like right behind me. There was a valley behind me and he was farther than it sounded as he ended up directly behind me but across the valley on the opposite ridge. When he stopped I could here him blowing and assumed he was sucking air and most likely expiring. About 1 1/2 hour later it started drizzling so me and a friend started tracking. As the shot was high I picked up what I figured was his tracks as they appeared to be from a running deer. First blood was faint and at about 70 yards from the shot (this is thru heavily wooded area). The blood was not great but fairly consistant, slightly smaller than a quarter. At one point it appeared there were drops from both sides but then back to one. We tracked him to where I think I heard him stop. The blood continued past that. Then found the fletching end of the arrow, about 8 or 9 inches of shaft and near was a bigger spotch of blood but then it went back to single drops. We tracked for probably 1/2 mile or better before we lost blood. The buck stayed on a ridge the whole time and the last blood we found was heading up hill. We never found him. A couple weeks later I was setting in another stand not too far from the one I shot the 8 from. I can look behind me and see the area. There were 4 or 5 smaller bucks and a doe that came in, all one at a time and for not too long. Then an 8 came in that I was pretty sure was the one I shot. I was trying to get a good look as it appeared to have a black mark on its right side. He didn't really stop but came in turned and backtracked then turned around again and trotted off. I couldn't make out any marks on his left side (would have been exit side) which it seemed there would have been. I never thought much about the 'no man's land' before but after this I've been wondering. Just a note. I was using Spitfire 100's which I've had great results with. I'm not blaming the blade as it was not an ideal shot but somewhat surprising with no pass thru. I bought some Rage Slip Cam 3 blades and took the doe and 9 point with and am very impressed with them. Also, I have a Trophy Ridge Rhino Guide sight. When I got home I shot some outside to try to figure how the shot was high and figured out that the locking tab on my top pin did not lock it down as its supposed to. Apparently it got bumped sometiime and knocked the pin down a bit.

RE: No man's land
 

There is NO "No mans land". If there were, what would fill the space?? Air???? I think not. That would be like a sucking chest wound and deflate the lung. Lungs stick to the chest walls. Any void is filled with fat, meat or something. It's possible to just miss the backbone I would assume and barely graze the lungs. Blood loss would be minimal because you didn't really poke a hole in them. Shooting above the liver as Justin did could indeed not get vitals, but rather fat and other connective tissue. The liver is not in the chest cavity so you don't hit anything if you hit above the liver. The liver doesn't go from top to bottom. Lungs do fill the chest cavity. One of the problems with my wife's illiness was fluid build up between the lungs and the chest walls. In a normal body the lungs fill this space and are losely stuck to the walls. Fluid in deflates the lungs. When people talk of fluid in the lungs it's usually between the lung and the chest walls causing the lung to not beable to fill or to deflate. In my wife's case the drew off the fluid and inserted a powder to stick the lung back to the walls so the fluid couldn't build up as fast. One thing I've surely learned in over 80 bowkills is that what we think we see is not always so. We teach it in bowhunter ed. classes but until you see the bizzare happenings it's tough to realize how off our visual perception can be. Until the deer is in hand we can NEVER say for sure what happened. I won't go into stories, but I got some beauties. So no, there is no void in a healthy animal. Yes a deer can not bleed and escape with a marginal hit. Marginal doesn't necessarily mean you missed the chest cavity. Dead center it and you're gold. Give it a glancing blow and strange things are almost guaranteed.

RE: No man's land
 

Amen! A truer statement has never been written, an example, okay...;)

I've written this before. I have on video a buck that I shot. When I pulled the trigger at 19 yards, I know for a fact that I saw my arrow pass through this buck just above the heart, both lungs....I know that's what I saw. I couldn't believe when I watched the deer run down the field and my camera man turned the camera on me. I wanted to yell at him and tell him to film the deer go down but I just notioned that to him and he shook his head no...you missed, my eyes popped out "what", I saw a double lung....he handed me the camera and I watched the footage and realized what I didn't see was the deer dropped on the release and my arrow glanced off his back passing under the hide but over the spine. I wouldn't have believed it and if I didn't have it on video I would have been in for a very long fruitless track job and heart break.

We shot that buck in late muzzleloader, 6 weeks later with a huge gash across his back and yes, on video...:D

I'm shocked at the thinking that there is a void area, I don't understand this thinking for reasons mentioned from davidmil not to mention what we've learned over the years.

RE: No man's land
 

A few years ago I shot a nice buck but over estimated the distance. I thought he was like 25 yards but he was only 20. I hit about 3" under the top of the back straight in line with the vitals. We tracked and tracked. Put in at least 12 hours looking for the deer. Two months later I got a picture of him on a trail cam checking a scrape. It would have been my first buck and first deer with a bow. You could see the scar from where the arrow entered. I think there must be an area of no vitals or spine or anything there. I don't think people realize it until it's happened to them. By the way, two weeks after i hit that nice buck, i nailed a 5 pointer at 25 yards:D.

RE: No man's land
 

HCH:

Going back....I can see where you might want me to elaborate on my original post (you too, Killer).

I performed a search (ON THE FORUM) for "no man's land". I have NOT injured a deer, "there". I hope that clears things up.

Jeff

RE: No man's land
 

I have seen it one time, A buddy and i were bowhunting the same area, One evening he made a shot on a basket racked 8pt and said the hit looked good , had a decent blood trail but not the best i've seen. After awhile it petered out and we finally gave up. Two weeks later one section south, i shot the same buck and watched it go down, I didn't know it was the same buck till my buddy came to help drag it out, that's when he said it was the same buck. He found the perfect scar of his razorback 5 broadhead shaped like a star, a passthrough nonethe less, but obviously not a killing shot. I don't think there is much room between the lungs and spine, but it can happen. HH

RE: No man's land
 

I've also butchered 11 deer in the last 1+ yr.THAT is why I asked the original question. I just don't see the area many people speak of.

I'm NOT saying a deer couldn't get hit in that area and live. I'm saying "I" don't think the deer could escape a vitals injury from an arrow launched form an elevated perch.

That's just my opinion. I TOTALLY respect you guys' opinions and your years afield. I hope that fact isn't lost.

Jeff

RE: No man's land
 

hadn't read others' posts when I made my post. I have never heard of no mans' land; new one on me.

RE: No man's land
 

SBGobbler, I have to agree with you and some of the others. If your shooting from a treestand and you are between the shoulders and the hip and above the bottom of the brisket bone and below the spine you have a dead deer. I too believe "no mans land" was created to make up for bad situations that just didn't work out. I've tracked and butchered more than 100 big game animals that were bow shot and too many times I've had the archer tell me the shot was right in the boiler room only to find out it was above the spine, in front of the shoulder, low through the leg etc.. A lot can happen upon the release of an arrow and nobody wants to ever admit that things just didn't work out the way they wanted.