Shooting spikes= Good management?
12-02-2006, 10:55 AM
#1
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern, Indiana
Posts: 88
Shooting spikes= Good management?
I know this may not be the right forum, but I think I can get a better response here. I just got done reading a story by Larry Weishuhn about shooting spikes = a healthier and better long term deer heard.
So my question is this if a spike will never be a "moster buck" and all I have seen in my area are spikes 4 and 6 pointers then should I shot the spikes first so in a few years I can have bigger better bucks?
So my question is this if a spike will never be a "moster buck" and all I have seen in my area are spikes 4 and 6 pointers then should I shot the spikes first so in a few years I can have bigger better bucks?
12-02-2006, 11:01 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: The OH-IO
Posts: 7,103
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
Many studies conducted these days proves this old "wives tale" incorrect.
Go pick up the newest issue of North American Whitetail for a good study. Which included traping and tagging numerous whitetails as fawns and yearlings. Then recapturing them over the next few years.
Besides there are so many natural variables that can stunt a deer's antler development. Such as drought, stress and availability of quality food to name a few.
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Go pick up the newest issue of North American Whitetail for a good study. Which included traping and tagging numerous whitetails as fawns and yearlings. Then recapturing them over the next few years.
Besides there are so many natural variables that can stunt a deer's antler development. Such as drought, stress and availability of quality food to name a few.
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12-02-2006, 11:04 AM
#3
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Hughesville, PA USA
Posts: 18,322
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
I don't understand your question. It's been proven and written time and time again that spikes can and will become monster bucks if given the years to do so. I didn't read the article in question, did Larry say that a spike will not grow to become a monster deer? If so, that totally surprises me.
There are two different classifications of spikes as far as I'm concerned. A spike could be a 1.5 year old that was born very late in the year, he didn't develope the antler quality he could have because of a shorter growing period. There also could be a spike that is a 0.5 year old, or button buck that grew exceptional antlers, spikes for his age, good genetics could cause this and that is the last deer I would want to shoot until he's matured. There are also 1.5 year olds that just didn't have it in them to grow anything but a spike there first year, perhaps bad genetics played a role in that however give the right nutrition and age, he'll sprout exceptional antlers.
In a perfect society, perhaps taking out spikes might accomplish something but in nature, no...these spikes given time could be P&Y animals.
There are two different classifications of spikes as far as I'm concerned. A spike could be a 1.5 year old that was born very late in the year, he didn't develope the antler quality he could have because of a shorter growing period. There also could be a spike that is a 0.5 year old, or button buck that grew exceptional antlers, spikes for his age, good genetics could cause this and that is the last deer I would want to shoot until he's matured. There are also 1.5 year olds that just didn't have it in them to grow anything but a spike there first year, perhaps bad genetics played a role in that however give the right nutrition and age, he'll sprout exceptional antlers.
In a perfect society, perhaps taking out spikes might accomplish something but in nature, no...these spikes given time could be P&Y animals.
12-02-2006, 11:41 AM
#4
Spike
Thread Starter
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: southern, Indiana
Posts: 88
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
the book is a few years old that I got from the Noth American Hunting Club call Whitetail Wisdom? It show a chart that even a 5 1/2 year old buck that started out as a spike only had a 6 point rack and this continued into the 4th generation? I know this is old and the study was done in texas and I live in Indiana with all the corn and beans.
I was just wondering since i haven't seen any big racked bucks only the signs, which deer should I take out of the heard to help produce bigger racks? Now I don't trophy hunt but If I can help produce big bucks I will.
I was just wondering since i haven't seen any big racked bucks only the signs, which deer should I take out of the heard to help produce bigger racks? Now I don't trophy hunt but If I can help produce big bucks I will.
12-02-2006, 11:57 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,925
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
I recall seeing a story a few years back about a spike, he was born late in the year in captivity and if I remember correctly at 1 1/2 he was only a spike.At his prime however he was over a 200 inch animal and at the time of his death was still over 170.
Granted, being in captivity he had nearly ideal conditions, good food, no hunting pressure or stress, no competition for food etc...But still theres no reason a late born fawn, or one born in a bad year without the proper food, overpopulation or the likes cant go on to become a really decent buck in the wild.I got the same book at home, Whitetail wisdom, I think theres several things in it that are stated as faacts but can nowdays be very debatable.
Granted, being in captivity he had nearly ideal conditions, good food, no hunting pressure or stress, no competition for food etc...But still theres no reason a late born fawn, or one born in a bad year without the proper food, overpopulation or the likes cant go on to become a really decent buck in the wild.I got the same book at home, Whitetail wisdom, I think theres several things in it that are stated as faacts but can nowdays be very debatable.
12-02-2006, 12:09 PM
#6
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,102
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
For the reasons previously mentioned shooting spikes I don't believe makes sense.From what I have seen on television and read in magazines cull bucks at highly managed locations are typically 31/2 year olds or older who have not displayed desireable characteristics.
I can't relate to this at all though! In my area the doe's out number the bucks so heavily I can't imagine shooting a spike.
I can't relate to this at all though! In my area the doe's out number the bucks so heavily I can't imagine shooting a spike.
12-02-2006, 12:12 PM
#7
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: YewNork
Posts: 1,794
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
ORIGINAL: Rob/PA Bowyer
I don't understand your question. It's been proven and written time and time again that spikes can and will become monster bucks if given the years to do so. I didn't read the article in question, did Larry say that a spike will not grow to become a monster deer? If so, that totally surprises me.
There are two different classifications of spikes as far as I'm concerned. A spike could be a 1.5 year old that was born very late in the year, he didn't develope the antler quality he could have because of a shorter growing period. There also could be a spike that is a 0.5 year old, or button buck that grew exceptional antlers, spikes for his age, good genetics could cause this and that is the last deer I would want to shoot until he's matured. There are also 1.5 year olds that just didn't have it in them to grow anything but a spike there first year, perhaps bad genetics played a role in that however give the right nutrition and age, he'll sprout exceptional antlers.
In a perfect society, perhaps taking out spikes might accomplish something but in nature, no...these spikes given time could be P&Y animals.
I don't understand your question. It's been proven and written time and time again that spikes can and will become monster bucks if given the years to do so. I didn't read the article in question, did Larry say that a spike will not grow to become a monster deer? If so, that totally surprises me.
There are two different classifications of spikes as far as I'm concerned. A spike could be a 1.5 year old that was born very late in the year, he didn't develope the antler quality he could have because of a shorter growing period. There also could be a spike that is a 0.5 year old, or button buck that grew exceptional antlers, spikes for his age, good genetics could cause this and that is the last deer I would want to shoot until he's matured. There are also 1.5 year olds that just didn't have it in them to grow anything but a spike there first year, perhaps bad genetics played a role in that however give the right nutrition and age, he'll sprout exceptional antlers.
In a perfect society, perhaps taking out spikes might accomplish something but in nature, no...these spikes given time could be P&Y animals.
i agree, how do you know if your shooting a monster 5 month with great genes,
and also i have seen a slightly albino deer ( piedbald) since it was 1.5 and it was a spike, this year it is 3.5 and a real great 8 pointer, i havent seen him during the day, but hopefully i can get him this last week of rifle!!
a spike can turn into a monster
12-02-2006, 12:29 PM
#8
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: The Tar Heel State
Posts: 314
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
Where I hunt, we shoot all big bucks (2 1/2 or older) that have stunted (twisited, small, etc.) racks. In the last 7 or 8 years it has become increasingly hard to find these type of bucks on the farm. However, thereis a large number of nice "clone" eight-points, and a few 10s and 12s. It could be a coincidence, but...
12-02-2006, 02:44 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Flushing Michigan
Posts: 2,355
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
Why do some people think that killing spikes will improve the gene pool?
Don't they realize that a given deer has the same genes his entire life? As if their DNA suddenly improves with age or something.
Don't they realize that a given deer has the same genes his entire life? As if their DNA suddenly improves with age or something.
12-02-2006, 02:52 PM
#10
Fork Horn
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Miami, Oklahoma
Posts: 422
RE: Shooting spikes= Good management?
Must have been a magazine or book from the 1980's as that was the common thought then. If you are going to 'cull' any bucks, let the deer get to 3.5 so you have a better idea of what their genetic potential isreally. If they are 3.5 year old spikes, by all means, blaze away.
ORIGINAL: hollywoodvx
I know this may not be the right forum, but I think I can get a better response here. I just got done reading a story by Larry Weishuhn about shooting spikes = a healthier and better long term deer heard.
So my question is this if a spike will never be a "moster buck" and all I have seen in my area are spikes 4 and 6 pointers then should I shot the spikes first so in a few years I can have bigger better bucks?
I know this may not be the right forum, but I think I can get a better response here. I just got done reading a story by Larry Weishuhn about shooting spikes = a healthier and better long term deer heard.
So my question is this if a spike will never be a "moster buck" and all I have seen in my area are spikes 4 and 6 pointers then should I shot the spikes first so in a few years I can have bigger better bucks?