how is this "hunting"
11-04-2006, 08:22 AM
#41
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
RE: how is this "hunting"
ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry
You know gentlemen; I knew I was going to take a whole lot of heat when I responded to this thread. If you think less of me for doing so, well, I cannot change that. I have tried to hunt in as many places and situations as possible. I have learned a lot along the way. The foremost is keeping an open mind. Nothing, and I do mean nothing, is always what it appears on the surface. I do not support canned hunts (“size” does matter). On the other hand, I support high fence hunting- providing high degrees of difficulty and elements of fair chase are introduced. Despite what many of you may think, it is an incredible tool for preserving our various animal species. It’s not always about the “killing”.
Oam,
You are comparing apples to oranges. One is legal and the other illegal.
Sex between consenting adults is legal. Doing it before you’re married is considered immoral. And yet it is happening everywhere. Should we ban sex?
In my opinion, each of us has the right to our own privacy and way of life (providing we stay within the limits of the law. I’m sure you know the difference between “sex” and “rape”). Again, I do not tell you how to hunt. I respectfully ask that you do not tell me how to hunt.
Many of the African safaris outfits operate on concessions consisting of 60 to 120 thousand acres. This is especially the case in Namibia. The fences are not always intended to keep the animals in. They are there to keep riff raff out! They delineate where one should be and where one shouldn’t be. Yet, Poachers still fall heavily on African wildlife.
A lot of fine folks on this forum will be staying home when they find out the majority of Africa is behind fence. Their loss…
And yes, I would love to be the contractor who provides the fence for a ranch that large!
Outdoorslover
I beg to differ! I enjoy nature to the nth degree. I can show you plenty of photographs if you do not believe me. High fence hunting provides me with the opportunity to be out there all year long in amongst the animals I truly love! My hunting season never ends!
How does killing a two year old cow buffalo constitute “showing off” a rack? I simply wanted the meat! It tastes great-beyond belief actually! It’s lean, low in cholesterols and a heck of a lot cheaper than buying beef from the store. I do not believe that’s “stooping”. I believe that’s “prudent”. More importantly, my wife will eat it! I found my cow on a 100 square miles Wyoming ranch. The whole perimeter was fenced. The hunt itself was nothing like running the buffs around the corral ten times and then shooting them. There was an extreme amount of difficulty! I even shot some great photos-one being of a mountain lion. You should try it!
I do not need to “prove” anything. I know exactly where my accomplishments lie. My trophies are my trophies (many of them are a joke-but they’re mine). I could careless if you look upon them! I do not hunt for others, I hunt for myself. Now, I’m beginning to share my passion for the outdoors with my children (one of which is physically handicapped…again, I have first hand experience with regard to accessibility). I look forward to many new adventures and discoveries…high fenced or free ranging!
Kevin,
I hear you, and I agree. That isn’t much of a hunt. But, the examples you are mentioning in your state are not representations of the entire industry! You might want to do a little more homework. Some of these high fence operations are huge!
There is a difference between fair chase and free ranging. Many people get those two confused. I would love to take you to Texas and onto the Bar E Ranch. I guarantee you’ll see the difference. There’s an axis deer there that is very near 40 inches. I’ve seen him twice and have hunted him two times (other proficient bow hunters have battled this buck as well). To my knowledge, he's still standing! The Bar E goes through hundreds of hunter each year. The cover is thick and the animals there are given ample opportunity to evade their pursuers. It’s funny; I’ve hunted on a 66 acre low fence farm in Ohio and killed a 164 inch whitetail. It took me 15 minutes to do so. I’ve hunted a total of eight days on the Bar E (400 acres) and the one buck I truly desired is still running. Hmmm….I should do something about that!
As we sit here pondering all this information, I cannot help but to bring up that old adage:
“its not the size, it’s how you use it”. Having sex with a whore is easy. Doing it with a class act…a whole other realm! Open your minds guys!
You know gentlemen; I knew I was going to take a whole lot of heat when I responded to this thread. If you think less of me for doing so, well, I cannot change that. I have tried to hunt in as many places and situations as possible. I have learned a lot along the way. The foremost is keeping an open mind. Nothing, and I do mean nothing, is always what it appears on the surface. I do not support canned hunts (“size” does matter). On the other hand, I support high fence hunting- providing high degrees of difficulty and elements of fair chase are introduced. Despite what many of you may think, it is an incredible tool for preserving our various animal species. It’s not always about the “killing”.
Oam,
You are comparing apples to oranges. One is legal and the other illegal.
Sex between consenting adults is legal. Doing it before you’re married is considered immoral. And yet it is happening everywhere. Should we ban sex?
In my opinion, each of us has the right to our own privacy and way of life (providing we stay within the limits of the law. I’m sure you know the difference between “sex” and “rape”). Again, I do not tell you how to hunt. I respectfully ask that you do not tell me how to hunt.
Many of the African safaris outfits operate on concessions consisting of 60 to 120 thousand acres. This is especially the case in Namibia. The fences are not always intended to keep the animals in. They are there to keep riff raff out! They delineate where one should be and where one shouldn’t be. Yet, Poachers still fall heavily on African wildlife.
A lot of fine folks on this forum will be staying home when they find out the majority of Africa is behind fence. Their loss…
And yes, I would love to be the contractor who provides the fence for a ranch that large!
Outdoorslover
I beg to differ! I enjoy nature to the nth degree. I can show you plenty of photographs if you do not believe me. High fence hunting provides me with the opportunity to be out there all year long in amongst the animals I truly love! My hunting season never ends!
How does killing a two year old cow buffalo constitute “showing off” a rack? I simply wanted the meat! It tastes great-beyond belief actually! It’s lean, low in cholesterols and a heck of a lot cheaper than buying beef from the store. I do not believe that’s “stooping”. I believe that’s “prudent”. More importantly, my wife will eat it! I found my cow on a 100 square miles Wyoming ranch. The whole perimeter was fenced. The hunt itself was nothing like running the buffs around the corral ten times and then shooting them. There was an extreme amount of difficulty! I even shot some great photos-one being of a mountain lion. You should try it!
I do not need to “prove” anything. I know exactly where my accomplishments lie. My trophies are my trophies (many of them are a joke-but they’re mine). I could careless if you look upon them! I do not hunt for others, I hunt for myself. Now, I’m beginning to share my passion for the outdoors with my children (one of which is physically handicapped…again, I have first hand experience with regard to accessibility). I look forward to many new adventures and discoveries…high fenced or free ranging!
Kevin,
I hear you, and I agree. That isn’t much of a hunt. But, the examples you are mentioning in your state are not representations of the entire industry! You might want to do a little more homework. Some of these high fence operations are huge!
There is a difference between fair chase and free ranging. Many people get those two confused. I would love to take you to Texas and onto the Bar E Ranch. I guarantee you’ll see the difference. There’s an axis deer there that is very near 40 inches. I’ve seen him twice and have hunted him two times (other proficient bow hunters have battled this buck as well). To my knowledge, he's still standing! The Bar E goes through hundreds of hunter each year. The cover is thick and the animals there are given ample opportunity to evade their pursuers. It’s funny; I’ve hunted on a 66 acre low fence farm in Ohio and killed a 164 inch whitetail. It took me 15 minutes to do so. I’ve hunted a total of eight days on the Bar E (400 acres) and the one buck I truly desired is still running. Hmmm….I should do something about that!
As we sit here pondering all this information, I cannot help but to bring up that old adage:
“its not the size, it’s how you use it”. Having sex with a whore is easy. Doing it with a class act…a whole other realm! Open your minds guys!
11-04-2006, 11:14 AM
#42
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 242
RE: how is this "hunting"
You're milkin' a dry tit Huck.
These guys need to go over to Bowsite with the rest of the "never been there never done that, but I'm an expert on it" crowd. These guys would never go to Africa - too easy. They'd never get their butts kicked at the Bar-E - WAY too easy and unfair. They'd never use modern equipment or modern techniques, that'd be just plain unsporting. So we'll just leave them to their sling-shots and rocks.
They've never watched "The Choice" - don't understand why they're on this site.
High Fence does not necessarily mean unfair, easy or canned. It can, but not necessarily. Perhaps Ralph and Vicki could explain it in terms they can understand - we've fallen short with data and first hand experience. We're no match for ranting and raving.
These guys need to go over to Bowsite with the rest of the "never been there never done that, but I'm an expert on it" crowd. These guys would never go to Africa - too easy. They'd never get their butts kicked at the Bar-E - WAY too easy and unfair. They'd never use modern equipment or modern techniques, that'd be just plain unsporting. So we'll just leave them to their sling-shots and rocks.
They've never watched "The Choice" - don't understand why they're on this site.
High Fence does not necessarily mean unfair, easy or canned. It can, but not necessarily. Perhaps Ralph and Vicki could explain it in terms they can understand - we've fallen short with data and first hand experience. We're no match for ranting and raving.
11-04-2006, 11:22 AM
#43
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: how is this "hunting"
Nonpardaid,
That recent Amish buck-do you know the one I'm talking about? He was no more free and able to escape the areathan my axis buck. Eventually he got tired and someone got him. It took the folks around him three years tofinish the job. But, they got him. Yep, he'll make the record book. But that "Frankenbuck" was doomed the moment the first set of eyes located him.
Give me a break,. How hard is it to pattern a buck, locate his core area (a place he spends his entire life), his bedding area, hang a tree stand and lay an ambush? He comes by trailing a doe in estrus and you wack him! His bedding area might be less than an acre! How hard is it to drive deer past posted hunters (as they do in Pennsylvania and else where)? Is that hunting or is that shooting? Stop for a second and reflect on your style of hunting. How many trail cameras do you scatter about the forest?
What, you can't get out there and find them on your own? Should I hold you in low esteem forplacing camera and tree stands?
I'm not trying to justify anything. My message was, has been and is "keep an open mind". I would hate to see you handcuffed to to a single philosophy. There's so much hunting out there-a heck of a lot more than just white-tailed deer. Take advantage of it when you can. Hunt your way and let me hunt mine-nothing more, nothing less!
For the record: The man that shoots the axis deer will make two record books that I'm aware of-if he so desires to enter his trophy.
That recent Amish buck-do you know the one I'm talking about? He was no more free and able to escape the areathan my axis buck. Eventually he got tired and someone got him. It took the folks around him three years tofinish the job. But, they got him. Yep, he'll make the record book. But that "Frankenbuck" was doomed the moment the first set of eyes located him.
Give me a break,. How hard is it to pattern a buck, locate his core area (a place he spends his entire life), his bedding area, hang a tree stand and lay an ambush? He comes by trailing a doe in estrus and you wack him! His bedding area might be less than an acre! How hard is it to drive deer past posted hunters (as they do in Pennsylvania and else where)? Is that hunting or is that shooting? Stop for a second and reflect on your style of hunting. How many trail cameras do you scatter about the forest?
What, you can't get out there and find them on your own? Should I hold you in low esteem forplacing camera and tree stands?
I'm not trying to justify anything. My message was, has been and is "keep an open mind". I would hate to see you handcuffed to to a single philosophy. There's so much hunting out there-a heck of a lot more than just white-tailed deer. Take advantage of it when you can. Hunt your way and let me hunt mine-nothing more, nothing less!
For the record: The man that shoots the axis deer will make two record books that I'm aware of-if he so desires to enter his trophy.
11-04-2006, 11:45 AM
#45
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 36
RE: how is this "hunting"
ORIGINAL: iamyourhuckleberry
Nonpardaid,
Give me a break,. How hard is it to pattern a buck, locate his core area (a place he spends his entire life), his bedding area, hang a tree stand and lay an ambush? He comes by trailing a doe in estrus and you wack him!
Nonpardaid,
Give me a break,. How hard is it to pattern a buck, locate his core area (a place he spends his entire life), his bedding area, hang a tree stand and lay an ambush? He comes by trailing a doe in estrus and you wack him!
11-04-2006, 05:58 PM
#47
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location:
Posts: 242
RE: how is this "hunting"
nopardaid - Huck's game room is bigger than your whole house I'm betting. He's killed more using your type of hunting than you'll ever take. He has more experience than you'll ever hope to gain. That man can spot and stalk big bucks if he wants to - try that. He's the only man I know that arrowed a lion through the heart in the real wild Africa. You're talking through your hat son and probably aught to let it go and listen. If you do, you just might learn something that will expand your horizons and open doors to things you never imagined.
11-04-2006, 06:21 PM
#48
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location:
Posts: 11,472
RE: how is this "hunting"
I always get a chuckle out of the pro high fence hunters pleading their case that it's like "real hunting".
I have one simple question for you. If it's the same as hunting free roaming animals, then why the need for the fences?
I have one simple question for you. If it's the same as hunting free roaming animals, then why the need for the fences?
11-04-2006, 06:37 PM
#49
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: WV
Posts: 4,485
RE: how is this "hunting"
ORIGINAL: Monie
This topic has created a double edged sword, of sorts,for a lot of us:
1) Most hunters do not condone this type of hunt and bash the people who do.
2) By bashing these hunters publicly, it gives fuel, to the anti-hunting movement's, fire. Once they successfully eliminate one type of hunting (canned hunts),they will surely go after another.
3) By allowing the "canned" hunts, this too adds fuel to the anti's fire.
We need to stop sqabbling amongst ourselves and support each other. There is no other way to defeat the anti's. I don't think canned hunts are right, but that is my opinion.I WILL, however,support the decision of those who do.
Bottom line, if we let the anti's get an even bigger foot hold than what they already have, we're up Schnit's Creek without a paddle!!
This topic has created a double edged sword, of sorts,for a lot of us:
1) Most hunters do not condone this type of hunt and bash the people who do.
2) By bashing these hunters publicly, it gives fuel, to the anti-hunting movement's, fire. Once they successfully eliminate one type of hunting (canned hunts),they will surely go after another.
3) By allowing the "canned" hunts, this too adds fuel to the anti's fire.
We need to stop sqabbling amongst ourselves and support each other. There is no other way to defeat the anti's. I don't think canned hunts are right, but that is my opinion.I WILL, however,support the decision of those who do.
Bottom line, if we let the anti's get an even bigger foot hold than what they already have, we're up Schnit's Creek without a paddle!!
Bison hunting is different and is not commercialized in the same fashion that these "trophy canned hunts" are. Everyone knows that 99% of Bison hunts are just getting a bunch of meat and getting to shoot your gun at the same time at something about as domestic as a cow(then get the guy with the tractor to come and take it to the barn for ya). Exotics behind a fence in North America should be able to be hunted as well. Those are the exceptions and I know that some will say "well you make an exception for this but not for that"................If they are anative wild speciesof North America, then theyshould not be able to be "hunted"behind a high fenceperiod, IMHO.
11-04-2006, 07:51 PM
#50
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Erie, Colorado
Posts: 1,530
RE: how is this "hunting"
Nybowhunter,
Who said it's the same as hunting free roaming animals.I certainly didn't. I contend that it, in many cases, can be much harder. Have you tried it?
I believe I have addressed the "why the fence question". If you think poachers do not reap havok on animals behind fence (and we're talking large tracks of land like the Triple Seven Ranch in Texas where many animals are born, live, and die of natural causes. These places are vast. They're a heck of a lot bigger than many of you think)you're greatly kidding yourself. As a New York hunter, I'm sure you've sat through the volleys of gun shots on opening day of deer season(unless you are one of the lucky families that has a ton of land to hunt on). Tell me that's a safe environment. I certainly wouldn't endanger my children in one of those free for alls. Talking about child abuse!While hunting in Hornell, NY., I feared for my life. I actually climbed down out of my tree stand and sat with my back to a tree. I figured Imight as well see the man that shoots me. The same thing happened to me in Maryland!
While behind high fence, I know exactly who and where poepleare at all times. The level of safetyis greatly increased. That reason alone is enough for me. I hope you don't make me elaborate...I will if necessary.
Hillybilly,
When you are ready to go on your first bison hunt, Let me know! I'd like to be there. You'll be among the 99% ofarchersthat thought they knew everything there was to know about bison. In the end, they were all given an education. That bull bison would be more than happy to turn you into blood pudding! I hope you don't mind when I tell you "I told you so"!
The problem, as I see it, arises when someone like you expects someone like me to do everything the way you do it. It would not even be an issue unlesspeople like you makeit an issue. Take away the TV cameras and the commercialization and HONESTLY what do you really care if someone is hunting behind a fence or not? How does it effect you? Give yourself a day to think about it-look deep. If you say "it portrays the wrong image", then you haven't done what I've asked of you.
Maybe our battle isn't with each other. Maybe we should focusour attention on the TV camera and the commercialization.Eliminating therecord books might not be a bad Idea either.
Who said it's the same as hunting free roaming animals.I certainly didn't. I contend that it, in many cases, can be much harder. Have you tried it?
I believe I have addressed the "why the fence question". If you think poachers do not reap havok on animals behind fence (and we're talking large tracks of land like the Triple Seven Ranch in Texas where many animals are born, live, and die of natural causes. These places are vast. They're a heck of a lot bigger than many of you think)you're greatly kidding yourself. As a New York hunter, I'm sure you've sat through the volleys of gun shots on opening day of deer season(unless you are one of the lucky families that has a ton of land to hunt on). Tell me that's a safe environment. I certainly wouldn't endanger my children in one of those free for alls. Talking about child abuse!While hunting in Hornell, NY., I feared for my life. I actually climbed down out of my tree stand and sat with my back to a tree. I figured Imight as well see the man that shoots me. The same thing happened to me in Maryland!
While behind high fence, I know exactly who and where poepleare at all times. The level of safetyis greatly increased. That reason alone is enough for me. I hope you don't make me elaborate...I will if necessary.
Hillybilly,
When you are ready to go on your first bison hunt, Let me know! I'd like to be there. You'll be among the 99% ofarchersthat thought they knew everything there was to know about bison. In the end, they were all given an education. That bull bison would be more than happy to turn you into blood pudding! I hope you don't mind when I tell you "I told you so"!
The problem, as I see it, arises when someone like you expects someone like me to do everything the way you do it. It would not even be an issue unlesspeople like you makeit an issue. Take away the TV cameras and the commercialization and HONESTLY what do you really care if someone is hunting behind a fence or not? How does it effect you? Give yourself a day to think about it-look deep. If you say "it portrays the wrong image", then you haven't done what I've asked of you.
Maybe our battle isn't with each other. Maybe we should focusour attention on the TV camera and the commercialization.Eliminating therecord books might not be a bad Idea either.