how is this "hunting"
#101
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,435
Likes: 0
From: Upstate New York
ORIGINAL: hillbillyhunter1
Well there's the catch isn't it?? What once was legal--like pen-hunting in Iowa may no longer be, because of outcry from organizations of hunters like the IBA. The proposition of changing the law makes this argument valid, imo, and I think the proposition itself has much validity. It's one thing if you shoot the cow you bought in your barn, It's another if you fence in wild animals, that are owned by ALL of us, that can not escape, for your own bottom line. I agree that there is a broad spectrum of perception between individuals on what is right and wrong and, of course, you can't make everything right that is wrong. But you can pick and choose the fights in which you as an individual are willing to participate, and I think that this is a fight worth fighting .
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
If you don't do the high fence thing and don't plan to do it and it's a legal endeavor then why not just live and let live?
If you don't do the high fence thing and don't plan to do it and it's a legal endeavor then why not just live and let live?
Fortunately we live in a country where law is based (or at least is supposed to be based) on principle rather than simply being the result of a popularity contest. IMO, in principle, the killing of animals that goes on in high fence hunting is on the same moral and ethical plane as other kinds of legal killing and I've previously given my reasoning. The fact that it is only a minority that does it is irrelevant. Again, in this country we protect the rights of the minority or at least we're supposed to.
#103
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,484
Likes: 0
From: WV
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
So then you have no ethical or moral argument but have decided that what is right or wrong regarding this topic is simply what is the most popular position. If enough people hollar loud enough that they want something banned then that in your words makes the argument valid and the ban should go in to law. Will you remember that if peta finally convinces the majority that bow hunting is ethically wrong and should be banned? Or hunting from a tree stand or with a rifle or just hunting in general?
Fortunately we live in a country where law is based (or at least is supposed to be based) on principle rather than simply being the result of a popularity contest. IMO, in principle, the killing of animals that goes on in high fence hunting is on the same moral and ethical plane as other kinds of legal killing and I've previously given my reasoning. The fact that it is only a minority that does it is irrelevant. Again, in this country we protect the rights of the minority or at least we're supposed to.
ORIGINAL: hillbillyhunter1
Well there's the catch isn't it?? What once was legal--like pen-hunting in Iowa may no longer be, because of outcry from organizations of hunters like the IBA. The proposition of changing the law makes this argument valid, imo, and I think the proposition itself has much validity. It's one thing if you shoot the cow you bought in your barn, It's another if you fence in wild animals, that are owned by ALL of us, that can not escape, for your own bottom line. I agree that there is a broad spectrum of perception between individuals on what is right and wrong and, of course, you can't make everything right that is wrong. But you can pick and choose the fights in which you as an individual are willing to participate, and I think that this is a fight worth fighting .
ORIGINAL: Sylvan
If you don't do the high fence thing and don't plan to do it and it's a legal endeavor then why not just live and let live?
If you don't do the high fence thing and don't plan to do it and it's a legal endeavor then why not just live and let live?
Fortunately we live in a country where law is based (or at least is supposed to be based) on principle rather than simply being the result of a popularity contest. IMO, in principle, the killing of animals that goes on in high fence hunting is on the same moral and ethical plane as other kinds of legal killing and I've previously given my reasoning. The fact that it is only a minority that does it is irrelevant. Again, in this country we protect the rights of the minority or at least we're supposed to.
IMO, in principle, the killing of animals that goes on in high fence hunting is on the same moral and ethical plane as other kinds of legal killing and I've previously given my reasoning. The fact that it is only a minority that does it is irrelevant.
good day and good hunting.
#104
"It's one thing if you shoot the cow you bought in your barn, It's another if you fence in wild animals, that are owned by ALL of us, that can not escape, for your own bottom line."
Hillbilly,
Is this the fuel that feeds your fire?You are actuallyafraid someone is stealing from you?
I'm starting to understand your way of thinking.Exotics are like cows and deer are owned by all of us! Three times a week is not enough.
Is there anything we can say or do to change your mind? Show you a bill of sale perhaps? Can we provide you with DNR regulations to the effect that all indigenous wildlife must be removed priorto installation of non-indigenous wildlife? What if the property is certified "indigenous free" by a representative of "we the people" at the landowners expense?Would that suffice? Would animals sold byour DNRs (it happens)carry the classification of"non-indigenous"?
Yep JJ, teaching a blind man the color purple.
Hillbilly,
Is this the fuel that feeds your fire?You are actuallyafraid someone is stealing from you?
I'm starting to understand your way of thinking.Exotics are like cows and deer are owned by all of us! Three times a week is not enough.
Is there anything we can say or do to change your mind? Show you a bill of sale perhaps? Can we provide you with DNR regulations to the effect that all indigenous wildlife must be removed priorto installation of non-indigenous wildlife? What if the property is certified "indigenous free" by a representative of "we the people" at the landowners expense?Would that suffice? Would animals sold byour DNRs (it happens)carry the classification of"non-indigenous"?
Yep JJ, teaching a blind man the color purple.
#105
Sorry for reaching...Here are a few posts from our own that help support my position:
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1787580
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1787100
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1786885
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1786768
My message stilL is "Keep an open mind", "hunt and let hunt".
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1787580
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1787100
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1786885
http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1786768
My message stilL is "Keep an open mind", "hunt and let hunt".
#106
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 15
Likes: 0
From:
I have been reading this forum and am amazed!! I am not condoning "high fenced hunts" nor am I standing in the corners of those opposed to them. However, I want to ask this question;
"Would it be neccessary for such places to exist for hunters to try and take a trophy class animal if it were not for hunters who kill every blessed deer that walks in front of them? Maybe outfitters are banking on what us hunters have not produced ourselves....good mature bucks. I have taken my share of small ones, I am just saying, "trophies" are defined by those who harvest the animal. It is the principle of supply and demand. Like I said before, it is not my cup of tea but neither are Chevy's. I do not drive one but there are many who do.And as far as fair chase goes....shooting deer out of your truck window, off an ATV or from you back porch is not fair chase!!!!
"Would it be neccessary for such places to exist for hunters to try and take a trophy class animal if it were not for hunters who kill every blessed deer that walks in front of them? Maybe outfitters are banking on what us hunters have not produced ourselves....good mature bucks. I have taken my share of small ones, I am just saying, "trophies" are defined by those who harvest the animal. It is the principle of supply and demand. Like I said before, it is not my cup of tea but neither are Chevy's. I do not drive one but there are many who do.And as far as fair chase goes....shooting deer out of your truck window, off an ATV or from you back porch is not fair chase!!!!
#107
Nontypical Buck
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 4,484
Likes: 0
From: WV
Is there anything we can say or do to change your mind? Show you a bill of sale perhaps? Can we provide you with DNR regulations to the effect that all indigenous wildlife must be removed priorto installation of non-indigenous wildlife? What if the property is certified "indigenous free" by a representative of "we the people" at the landowners expense?Would that suffice? Would animals sold byour DNRs (it happens)carry the classification of"non-indigenous"?
What if?? What if?? What if??
What if you take the fence down?? the sky falls in??
Another question: If (in your hypothetical situation), a person buys deer from the DNR, Do they have to pay sales tax?? Or is the sales tax transferred to the shooter that actually pays to shoot the deer?? Basically, are the deer labeled as "items for resale" much like food sold to restaurants, and therefore not taxable to the landowner???



Again, and hopefully for the last time, I don't believe any animal should be hunted behind a high fence, but, I will speak out against and vehemently oppose Penned-up North AmericanGame animalsfor purposes of hunting.
Good luck and good hunting
#109
Yes to question number one. Land of the free home of the brave.
No to question number two.Now you've opened yourself up to trespassers and riff raff. Your chance of being shot greatly increases.
There is nothing hypothetical about this situation. It happens. In Texas, deer are not even sold. They are handed over to landowners to do proper wildlife management. State Biologists watch over the entire process. Many of those ranches (much more vast than six acres) are enclosed behind high fence. It is the only way they can manage their deer and keep poachers at bay. Would you like some phone numbers? I'm sure these people will set you straight'
Again, and hopefully for the last time, I do believe animals can be hunted behind a high fence. I will speak out against and vehemently oppose people that speak out and vehemnetly opposePenned-up North AmericanGame animalsfor purposes of hunting.
I guess my vote cancels yours...
No to question number two.Now you've opened yourself up to trespassers and riff raff. Your chance of being shot greatly increases.
There is nothing hypothetical about this situation. It happens. In Texas, deer are not even sold. They are handed over to landowners to do proper wildlife management. State Biologists watch over the entire process. Many of those ranches (much more vast than six acres) are enclosed behind high fence. It is the only way they can manage their deer and keep poachers at bay. Would you like some phone numbers? I'm sure these people will set you straight'
Again, and hopefully for the last time, I do believe animals can be hunted behind a high fence. I will speak out against and vehemently oppose people that speak out and vehemnetly opposePenned-up North AmericanGame animalsfor purposes of hunting.
I guess my vote cancels yours...
#110
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 242
Likes: 0
From:
IBO - ever heard of them? They support high fence hunting (not canned hunting). Don't believe me? Read the latest issue of their magazine - Bowhunting World Xtreme issue, 2006 Volume 55 Number 6 - hasn't been out that long.
There are two articles in that magazine on high fence. Read them and get back to us. You'll find all kinds of familiar names like Jim Posewitz, author of Beyond Fair Chase (read this book for your homework); Thomas Baumeister, Montana F&W and Parks Hunter Educaton Coordinator; Russell Thornberry of BTR; Bob Foulkrod;...oh yea, don't forget Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo are regular contributors and agree also.
Given Ralph and Vicki's position, why are you "anti-fence-even-for-fair-chase-not-canned-hunt" guys still on this forum?
Have you even ever watched the show "The Choice"? Do you have any idea what the show is about?
There are two articles in that magazine on high fence. Read them and get back to us. You'll find all kinds of familiar names like Jim Posewitz, author of Beyond Fair Chase (read this book for your homework); Thomas Baumeister, Montana F&W and Parks Hunter Educaton Coordinator; Russell Thornberry of BTR; Bob Foulkrod;...oh yea, don't forget Ralph and Vicki Cianciarulo are regular contributors and agree also.
Given Ralph and Vicki's position, why are you "anti-fence-even-for-fair-chase-not-canned-hunt" guys still on this forum?
Have you even ever watched the show "The Choice"? Do you have any idea what the show is about?


