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What is the opinion on culling out spike bucks. I have heard several different ideas about improving the heard.

I have 100 acres to hunt, which butts up to 770 acres of county park that no one is supposed to hunt. We are implementing a six point and bigger rule. This is the fourth year of it, and wow! what a difference we have seen in the amount of buck plus the quality. But that problem of shooting scrubs and spikes keeps arising. We are noticing that there are a few more spikes than I thought should be there. Is the nutrition not high enough or is it genetics. Do we shoot them so they don't breed? Or should we &quot;Let them go, so they can Grow&quot;

Questions?????
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My area lacks alot of food plots except the three 1/2 acre food plots that we have planted. These deer must travel 2 1/2 miles to the nearest field. The natural forage nutrition is the only thing there to develope a large racked or bodied deer. Our average is a 2 1/2 year old 7 or 8 point with a 13&quot; to 15&quot; spread, that has a hanging weight of 110 to 120 pounds. In my opinion about taking out the six points and better, is that there will always be six points and better because the 1 1/2 old deer are being passed up to grow bigger the next year. There are only three guys that hunt this property. We take as many does as we possibly can, and we do shoot that does that have two button bucks. I didn't think that we could hurt the mature buck population by taking out 6 mature bucks a year. We view on the average 2 bucks per visit to the woods. Which tells me that there are plenty of mature buck making it through the season. I am like everyone else, willing to pass up several small bucks to have the chance at a mature 2 1/2 buck.

IMO...I'd let them go...ALL the small bucks....especially in a place like that.
I think that many of the spikes folks see, are just late born deer the year before. Most of their uummph went into developing their bodies, and little was left for antler growth. What Brian said would be very good...I agree.
Sounds like a great spot...hold out for the mature bucks Good luck!

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Good post Brian!
It just made me wonder a little. I would think inbreeding occurs alot more than we realize anyway. I'm just stumped on what doe I should be culling. I've heard people say the 1 1/2 year old does are best to cull and I've heard others say the mature does are best to cull. From my experiences in the woods , it's always been the big mature (gray snout) doe that runs off the button bucks.
I also agree that a spike is just a late bloomer (born late).

<---Doug---<<<

it all depends on the size of the buck. If it is over 3 1/2yrs. old than it defenatly is a genetics issue and can be eliminated from the heard but if is is a 1 1/2yr it is common to see even though a 1 1/2yr usually consists of at least a fork on each side with ocassional browtines. Its not very common to see a 2 1/2yr old with spikes but it could be the lack of nutrients.

you can not tell a bucks potential by his first or second set of antlers,could just be born later in the year

If I ain't huntin',I'm trappin',If I ain't trappin',I'm fishin'
If I ain't fishin',I'm wishin'!

Bowfanatic - Your question on which doe to take is a good one. Someone posted that if offered the opprutunity of 2 does coming in together, a young one, and a mature one, Which to shoot??? They answered the question with &quot;both if possible&quot;. This quote may have come off the QDMA website, I do not recall.

The point would be that in 90% of the country, there are too many does, period - and generally to many deer period in over 50% of the country. True management will falter, unless the population is brought back to carrying capacity of the land, and the doe/buck ratio is near equal. Then the question of which doe to shoot becomes more valid. In the balanced population model, the answer is the older does. Why? because a young herd, is more dynamic. By this I mean that by &quot;turning over&quot; the doe herd more often, bad genes are removed with the older does. With a decent population of mature bucks (1 for 5-10 does), The dominant buck's genes are ensured. Younger does are more likely to have &quot;dominant&quot; buck genes than older does, especially in a relatively new management situation (10 yrs or less of a balanced herd). Older does, still may carry a significant % of &quot;bad genes&quot; from the previous management practices - and since 50% of the genome are from the doe, it makes sense to cull out older does.

At this point in the conversation, someone always says &quot;but older does raise their young more successfully than younger ones&quot;.....And this is exactly the point. If an older doe with a higher likelyhood of &quot;bad genes&quot; is passed up, you can be sure that the &quot;genetic&quot; equation will take longer to play out.

I digressed a bit - DBL-LUNG - The point of the post was culling spikes - and you got some good answers already. But you may have already answered your own question, and not realized it. You stated that the closest food plots are over 1 mile from your land. This COULD indicate that the land in general cannot support the number of deer you have. In this case, antler development, and body weight (especially in 1-1/2yr old deer) are the first to suffer. There is some excellent research on the subject - (look up &quot;Cusino Deer&quot.

Also, While it is true that you can curtail buck dispersal by shooting does, you can not eliminate it. AND in your situation with a park (likely overbrowsed, and somewhat mature) you CANNOT STOP dispersion of 1-1/2 yr old bucks ON TO your property. SO even with excellent food plots, and a balanced deer herd on your property, A very high percentage of yearling bucks you observe on your land during hunting season have come from 2-10 miles away (average dispersion) and will LIKLEY be spikes, or small racked bucks. Their first rack, is a matter of their circumstance, and EXTREMELY unlikey to have anything to do with their genetics. Culling them at their 1st rack, will only hurt your herd.

Now if you had 10,000 acres things would be different, but you do not.

Sorry to ramble - I could add more - but hopefully you get my point.