Straightarrow

I'm trying to find the rational for shooting buttons and calling it good deer managememt. So far, all I can find are unscientific statements and articles that suggests it's only an attempt to reduce the deer heard. In other words, kill every deer. I must say the hunters in my area, follow this philosophy as if it were a religion.

Anyone with some additonal research or information I can look at, I'd appreciate it. If biologists are actually advocating this, I'd like to see if their explanation makes any sense.

Some links I found:

http://www.battlecreekenquirer.com/n...s/1008428.html

http://www.msue.msu.edu/wildlife/deermgmt/Kalamazoo.htm
http://talk.shooters.com/room_50/Feb062002.cfm
http://www.edersbow.com/publication/daily/20000129/
http://www.lancasteronline.com/newer.../historic.shtm

davidmil

I think it depends more on where you are in the "herd management/QDM" scheme of things. PLUS, one "EXPERT" will say one thing and the next "EXPERT" will say another. I did read an article by one of these "EXPERTS" somewhere a couple years ago about initial measures to take where the herd is all OUT OF WHACK. I'm really not sure who wrote it, but believe it was CJ Winands. If I recall it right the first drastic step was to just whack the heck out of the herd to get the numbers closer to right. All rack bucks were left and the rest were whacked without regard for trying to identify. Something about the herd being SO far out of line that whacking some of the buttons was not all bad and probably good in that the survivors would more than likely put the numbers right for doe/buck ratio down the road in the peak QDM years. If you had a property that would support say 20 bucks but you left 50 buttons running around... well, you're going to have a problem. Also he suggested as someone else did that many would not make it anyway. Anyway, once you got the herd to a more manageable size then they said to concentrate on taking a certain amount of does, thinning the undersireables bucks etc etc. To me it was a "Horn Hunter Plan" but they called it QDM when they start thinning bucks because of less than picture perfect racks, but shooting excess buttons makes perfect sense to me(a total novice no-nothing herd manager) as far as maintaining herd ratios and balance and habitat preservation. He wasn't giving a blanket license to whack buttons, just said it was OK and should be done when the existing herd quality calls for it.

royak

So so sorry and you are right I still had my mind on the other post.

Edited by - royak on 11/13/2002 07:14:11

Straightarrow

Davidmill,

That makes sense.


Roy, what the heck are you talking about? I just made a post looking for management info on this subject. You're getting bent out of shape over nothing! There was absolutely nothing wrong with me asking for information on this subject. Your response had nothing to do with what I'm looking for.

Remy 15

Here is another link about button Bucks. There is some interesting reading on this site.

http://www.qdma.org/articles/detail.asp?ID=128

This is my Opinion; I think that a lot of people associate button bucks with bad genes. I think that they assume that is the buck is a button this year, he won’t ever grow a large rack, so take him out of the herd and it will maintain the larger rack genes of other bucks. Almost like pure bread dogs.. I remember reading an article about this very topic, as soon as I find it will post the link for you.

Straightarrow

Remy,

Thanks for the link! This author doesn't seem to support shooting buttons. Just saying, that the buttons you don't shoot will probably disperse, so you probably won't have the opportunity to harvest them in the future anyway. Now, if everyone refrained from shooting them, then others would disperse back to your property and your buck population would be higher.

I think it's been fairly well established that a more equal buck/doe ratio is good for the herd and good for hunting. It would seem to me that leaving the buttons whenever possible would help with this ratio. It appears from what I've read so far, the main reasoning behind shooting buttons is that does must be shot to control the herd and most amateur hunters cannot tell the difference in the field, so let them take anything to help accomplish the goal of reducing the herd.

davidmil

REMY.... that's some interesting reading and makes perfect sense. I knew of the dispersal theory and I think all pretty much agree on that. Your link would seem to me to really show a need for SOME restraint but not the end of the world if a few get whacked. I think the article I had read was based on a SUPER overpopulated herd that first off just needed to be chopped and chopped fast. For the majority of us it would seem that we should continue our present practices of trying to make sure we don't shoot them, but if it happens occasionally it isn't the end of the world. Enjoy the meat and make it a point to try and figure out how not to do it again. Stuff does happen.


Edited by - davidmil on 11/12/2002 09:07:48

CAJUNBOWHNTR

You must be confusing button bucks with spikes.Every buck I have ever seen was a "button buck" when he was a fawn,5-6 months old.Now our policy is to try and not shoot them.Both my sons killed buttons for their first deer by accident.Did we berate them?Hell no we all celebrated.A first deer is a first deer!Now that they are older we try and educate them to try and not shoot small deer because it's hard to tell a button from a doe.If you are under a management plan and aggresively shooting does it will happen from time to time.

Billy

WHACKEM N STACKEM

Remy 15

Found the other link,

http://www.qdma.org/articles/

There is some great reading in the Deer Biology / Management section (Spikes and the Antler Equation) is a good read… If any of you have articles talking about how the harvest of button buck helps the herd, I would like to read them too. I like to see both sides of the coin…

Thanks Again

Ps – do any of you belong to QDMA?

grim reaper

Cajon in most areas 6-8 month old deer usualy do only have button's but in some cases they can have actual antler's I knew a deer breeder who had an 8 point 7 month old. But I would assum this would only happen in area's that have hunge bodied deer. Just thought it may be of interest to you.