Well...you boys were right...again.
 

So, after my broadhead issues yesterday, I decided to do some more paper turning when I got home from work. Low and behold, for some wierdo reason, I have a tear to the left of the arrow @ 15ft with FP's. What is strange is that, when I bought the bow a month ago, it was shooting dead on center. What is also strange is the tear is not consistent. Some have about an inch, others about a half an inch, and some look to be damn near dead on, depending on the arrow and the shot.When I moveback to 20yds, the tear is smaller, but still noticable.Do you boys think this is a form issue, or is it a bow/arrow issue? I am beginning to think about upgrading arrows, as well as myrest. Something just sounds really nice about aWB, and I really dont like how my bow has been drawing with the dropzone, particullary with the speed mods on my Tribute. If I let off at allthe arrow bounces off the rest, which is something I DONT want to happen in the woods...even. My GT's are really beginning to show some wear and tear, andwhen I spin them in my hand they have a slight slightwobble to them. Some are more or less than others, but I can definetly notice.
Ho hum...the tuningblues I am singing boys...I just want my bow to be tuned, with broadheads, and ready to hunt. I am off to the shop tomorrow, and hopefully Jimcan get my tuned and running well again.
Any advice?
Ps. If you say, "Should have bought a Trykon, Ill get pissed;)"

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Form, torque issue.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

May I ask Rob what makes you say that...the inconsistency?

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Sorry, that was a short answer.;) Yes, the inconsistancy. Out of a machine, the tears wouldn't vary, the arrow would come out of the bow the same every time. If your getting inconsistant tears, the arrow is leaving the bow inconsistant. All else being equal, the bow, the arrows, that leaves human error ie, form and torquing. I apologize for being blunt in the first post. My wife was burning my ear and I had to answer or get in trouble.;)

One reason I'm a big fan now of the laser/level for center shot and tuning. See Gregs post here: http://www.huntingnet.com/forum/tm.aspx?m=1684829

You could make a quick reference with the laser/levels to take out the human error out of the bow, any odd tear then results in human error, spine issue or timing.

In your case, torque.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

also i would look at the quicktune 360, although i have a wb and like it pretty well

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

i agree with rob..it sounds like torque because of the inconsitant tears. also may need retuned because of the string creeping as it broke in. but to correct it watch your form, anchor, grip, release, and your sight bubble if you have one. i didnt thing that stupid little bubble would make a diffrence....but it sure does. and i noticed even with good form and a good release and grip i had a tendancy to grab the bow as soon as i released. someone here said it best..think dead spider with your grip. let them all hang before during and after the shot. you dont wanna move your bow at all. keep it all straight and level..good luck...frustrating..i know

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

John,

Per the PM I sent you and in regards to the call you sent today, I would put my tuning ability on a binary up against anyone in this state and would be very happy to help you out with this bow to see if we can get it tuned. I have had quite a few people that bought bows from that dealer you speak of that bring their bows into me at the dealer I work with (even though we don't have bowtech there) or to me privately because they know I typically have them straightened out in very quick order and probably have more experience with binaries than anyone else in this area. I was tuning binaries for myself and everyone in this area last year this time while the folks across the river were bashing them still and telling everyone how horrible they are because they weren't able to get the line over there due to dealer territories. I know we aren't a dealer but I can guarantee you I will have that bow shooting bullet holes and tuned perfectly in very short order even if you come to my house instead of the shop. The problem isn't a drop zone and won't be solved by changing rests, my allegiance last year was shooting perfectly w/ a dropzone and was smoking everyone at the indoor 3D events I was shooting over last winter. If the arrow bounces off the rest when letting down, whether intentional or accidental it is a problem with nock pinch that is easily fixed, this is not a problem with a rest. A whisker biscuit is a bandaid for a problem like this that is easily solved otherwise. It may be form related or may be tuning related but I can guarantee I will have you shooting bullet holes in short order but I guarantee the problem isn't the rest. I also know how to slightly tweak letoff, holding weight, and draw length on that current mod you have now if it is only a very slight change you need........meaning less than 1/2". I deleted your message tonight thinking I could just hit callback on my cell phone so I don't have your phone #, call me again or PM me here if you want help tuning that bad boy and I would be happy to help.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

I'm having similar probs. with my dropzone rest, the bottom fletch is scuffed on all my arrows. I think the spring is bad in the rest, I oiled it but it didn't help, The result is inconsistent flight, arrows, however are hitting close to their mark. I think I'm going to replace it this week, though. When I shoot my practice broadhead, the accuracy decreases greatly.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Rob, I am having a similar problem in that some of my arrows are right tears, some left, some no tear at all. Being that the bow was laser tuned, is it logical to assume that the problem is me and my form?

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

I'll bet it's your grip that's doing it.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

While I agree with both Rob's and Rick's posts up above, you may want to look more closely at your arrows, too... if they're doing as you said. I'm not sure about how accurate a result you're getting out of spinning them in your hand, but sounds as though they definitely need to be checked out; that just may be accounting for differences in tears as well, though I would tend to agree that it's more of a bow-rest tuning issue than an arrow issue.

As far as string creep goes, if you're shooting binaries with a stock BowTech string... well, I just haven't seen any on all the bows I've been around. Not after the string is "shot in".

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Go to easton's home page there is a tuning guide. I use this for all my bows. I have three different bows setup to hunt right now. Only 1(Bowtech) shoots bullet whole thru paper. They all shoot a broadhead and field piont the same at 40 yds.

Bows are like woman, there is no one way to tune themor make them happy.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

He's headed to my place tonight after I get out of work so I would imagine we will have it figured out pretty quickly. I am thinking it may be a combination of a few things including some or all of the the following including nock pinch, bad arrows, form, rest/nock position, etc.I think we are going to tweak the cams a bit to give him a bit more valley as well with a bit less holding weight so it's more comfortable for him.........

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

That's great Matt, and might fine of you, please come back and let us know. It's tough to give advice when we don't have hands on and limited information so I'll be curious how you make out.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

I notice you have a 28" draw, how long are your arrows? i had GT 5575s thatwere 27" that i was shooting from a 70lb bow.I ran into problems with them being underspined. They were approaching the 5 grain per pound threshold also.

In my opinion the 5575s are too light for <28" arrows out of 70Lb bows. Try the 7595s or a different brand

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Well we spun the arrows and their straigtness wasn't the problem in my opinion, they were pretty straight however I do think they are a bit underspined at 26 1/8" long and approx 67lbs draw on a GT 55/75. They were green label gold tip hunters (the same as I am shooting out to 60 yards with great accuracy). I know binary's are fairly tolerant of underspined arrows (more than other cams at least in my experience) however I felt he would benefit from a stiffer 340 spine since broadheads will be on these. If they were a field point only arrow for target or backyard practice I would have recommended staying with the 55/75's for $$$ sakes, but I strongly believe in proper spine when broadheads (especially fixed blades) are in question. Since no one has Gold Tips in stock right now we got him into Axis 340's from the shop and spun them all to find the straightest ones and set them aside for broadhead arrows. The ones that didn't spin so well (4 from the dozen) are going to be marked as field point only arrows. I am going to cut them to 27.5" long with 100 grain points and crank the bow up to 70lbs and according to OnTarget2 he should be spined just on the stiff side of perfect. I would rather see an arrow just a bit stiff on the chart than not stiff enough. 70 should feel pretty good too I would imagine since he picked up the smooth mods tonight before he met up with me and has more valley and less peak draw force than the fast mods he is used to.

After looking at the old arrows and while waiting for glue to dry on the new Axis arrows.......I looked at the tune of the Tribute. First of all, the rest was installed way too low by the original dealer to the point that broadheads were actually touching the shelf when at full draw. We raised the rest so the arrow was level with the berger holes in the riser when the rest was in the full up position. Then I checked centershot. I don't have one of the fancy lasers that Greg has........but I do have a golden key center shot gauge and used that to find true center shot. The bow had been setup with the rest probably 1/4" outside (rest too far left when looking from back of bow) of centershot. John showed me the paper tune holes he had shot before and they were all nock right matching up with where they should be for this centershot position. I adjusted to perfect centershot according to my gauge.

By time we did all this and got the new arrows fletched, it was pretty late and he had to head home for the long drive. I think he is still driving as I type this. We are planning to meet up on Friday after I get out of my 9-5 job and head to the range to check form, shot execution, and then walkback tune then papertune as well to triple check centershot as well. I am also going to tie in nock points on the bow as the original shop used brass nocksets that may or may not be at proper distance from eachother for these nocks without pinching......I suspect there is a nock pinch issue as well going on here. We are also going to check 2nd and 3rd Axis on the site at that point to make sure everything is in check. We will use a level, a vise, and a plumbob for 2nd and 3rd axis. We will update then more so everyone can hopefully see how we did this and maybe be able to do this at home on their own.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Da%^ I hate watching a show that turns into a mini series when I thought it was going to end.:D

Very interested to see this one played out. You didn't get to check out his form then? If his arrows were underspined then his rest would have been slightly out wouldn't it? It being low didn't show in the paper? I don't remember.

Swell your helping him out!

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

No I think underspined rest is slightly in, great work I am glad to see you help him out.

My Ross is perfect left to right, but nock is set a touch high, every bow is a little different.

Nice work!!

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

It's more than likely form. I agree with that. BUT, one statement you made makes me want to have you check a couple other things. You said, "depending on which arrow". It could be the arrows. Also, if you bought a bow one month ago and have made NO adjustments since you got it.... string stretch could be playing on it too. Number or sort your arrows somehow and see if it's the same arrow. It may be a matter of turning the nocks a tad or something if you're getting contact. Lots of things could cause it. A high left tear can also indicate a spine problem. You have to dig a little. First make sure of your arrow selection. I guess the quickest way to check spine would be to put on a lighter head. Charts are a guide, not an absolute. If you're border line and plan on shooting broadheads you should always error on the side of stiff.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Well...I just arrived home from Albany and my meeting with Matt. Gotta say, I am pretty impressed with his knowledge about all things archery. From the business to mechanics, this fella was able to fill me up with information non-stop. Matt, ditch the IT thing and make archery your full time!
So, Matt already filled everyone in on the issues. I didnt know we were gonna run THAT many tuning tests on Friday. Good thing I didnt shoot tonight.
Matt filled everyone in pretty much. The bow was not setup as well as I wanted, or as well as it origionally should have. I am not knocking anyone here, but I definetly think if you are going to invest money into a bow, make sure you take the time to set it up properly. I lost a month and a half now due to a tuning issue.
Again, thanks Matt, and well keep everyone posted.

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

Excellent, Thanks Matt for helping out one of our own. Awesome job.

That's why it's so hard to determine issues based solely on the questionee's thread. We assume assumptions are realities. Good job Campo and congrats. Careful not to bust nocks. ;)

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

I must have missed it. What was the problem?

RE: Well...you boys were right...again.
 

See post numbero uno.