The Enemy Within......
 

I suggest everyone read the article "The Enemy Within" by Dan Hendricks




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The Enemy Within

I have found myself in some ofthese forums saying many of the same things and I think we as hunters should focus on more solidarity as a whole. I mean Bow/Gun/Crossbow/Traditional/Still Hunters/Dog Hunters/Etc. All of us.Idon't know what the future holds but I am pretty certain OurSolidarity will be the only thing protecting usand our hunting lifestyles and the heritage and traditions we hope to pass on. Unfortunately there are strong forces set against usin the form of Anti- Hunting Organizationsof all different shapes and sizes. They don't seem to pose real threats yet but they are not going away. And a disturbing trend among some of these groups is that they are joining up with other like organizations to boost their resources.In my mind every hunter has a responsibility to promote our sport, mentor new hunters, andnot take what we love for granted. How can wedo these things better? That's a good question we all should answer. I see a lot ofThreads about this and thatbut not much about ways to proectour lifestyle.Taking things for granted is easy to do in all aspects of our lives and I'm sure everyone has something they took for granted and lost. And as cliche as it may sound "You don't know what you got 'til it's gone." I certainly would never want to have to start a sentence to one of my great grandchildren in the future with "I remember when we used to be able to hunt....."

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I've said it before....and I'll say it again....

The biggest, most-powerful enemy we face as hunters...........
.......is fellow hunters.

The anti's are going to use every hunter putting down another for: Sunday hunting; trapping; baiting; running dogs; etc... that they can. You're gonna see guys quoted for their seemingly "anti" comments that had NO IDEA they were helping(Take the recent Ted Nugent thread, for example).

Mark my words.......

Jeff

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20 hits only 1 reply, pretty soon it will scroll right off the page, this is kind of what I'm talking about. I'll post a couple more comments to keep it near the top for a while. Hendricks article is just a click away from this very spot.

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I am guilty of that. Shame on me. You are 100% on target with this one. As sportsmen and women lets not shoot ourselfs in the foot by saying nothing. Stand up and speak for what we love. Thanks NEW

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I feel ya Nate, I feel ya.

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45 hits3 replies. I should have known. Start a thread about how many deer someone has killed and everybody responds, one about protecting hunting3 responses. What does this mean? I guess it's just a boring topic(sarcasm).
Thanks for those who did though.

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New, Patience grasshopper, you have a very excellent thread but what you have to remember is many of those hits are simply not members. There are tons of people who come to this site to read and have never joined the ranks of the posters.

I've pinned this one to the top as I think it's a great reminder for us all as the seasons approach. I couldn't agree more and I'll have to take the time to read the article here on HNI and post a link herein:http://www.huntingnet.com/fieldjournal/fieldjournal_detail.aspx?nID=434

Thanks NEW61375....

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I think I'm going to have to go against the grain on this one. I absolutely do not believe in supporting everything that is out there just because it is hunting related. I will not allow the "anti's" to scare me so much that I can no longer participate in managing and affecting the future of the sport I love. If I believe a hunting practice is immoral, destructive to my community, destructive to a positive hunting image, or based on poor science, I WILL NOT SUPPORT IT. Fear doesn't rule my world.

Heck, If we are all on board with supporting anything just because it is "hunting", why all the backlash against the World Hunting Association?

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I hear New, and it is important that we do not stay silent. Personally, I am and have been an NRA member all of my life. On average, I'll send about 4-5 messages monthly to elected officials voicing my concerns. We need more people doing this type of thing.

On a side note the only person that I have never received a response from after numerous letters is Hillary Clinton, .......

She's running for senate again, but someday, I fully expect her to run for President.

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No,thank youfor putting it up there Rob.

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I think the reason you are getting hits and not replies is they leave to go find the article. Thats what I did anyhow. Nice article and I have deffinetly seen this on many forums as well.

I have not seen the Ted thread but will look for it so I can see what you are talking about.

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great post and needed to be put up

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You are exactly right on this topic. I'm sure that we all have had some sort of life experiences that we learned from hunting. Many people on the other side of the fence do not understand, nor do they care. Our hobbies pump millions of dollars into the economy. We must make this translate into power with our legislators.

Jon

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Easy, bowbuilder.......That ain't "hunting".

Jeff

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First, I think you missed my point Bowbuilder. In no way am I saying support anything and everything. I am saying support hunting, mentor new hunters, and contribute to/do something to help hunting as a whole.I am notscared of anti's nor is fear ruling my world. I do believe inbeing prepared in advance and not waiting until you are fully attacked to think about organization. I know there are lots of groups,lobbyists, and organizations protectinghunting industries and hunters rights. I'm talking about more of a personal approach, doing something myself to help.License sales and hunter numbers are down and have been on a slow decline for some time,THIS DOES SCARE ME.If 1 out of 10 hunters could introduce andmentor a new hunter you could feasiblyturn thattrend of decline around in a matter of a few years. But how many do it?? I'm not talking aboutyour kids and stuff I consider taking mine a given. I'm talking about there areHunters over here....and Anti's over there..... and in the middle somewhere are some new hunters. Someone that didn't grow up around hunting orknow many hunters. You would be surprised how manysuch people there are that might just be a little intimidated to asksomeone to take them becausethey have never hunted. I can find somebody every year and two of my best hunting buds have only been hunting 3 and 5 years and these guys are in their 30's. I'm not trying to preach I just think there are important topics that often get overlooked. Second, I believe most will agree the WHA isn't hunting, bad comparison.

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No NEW, I think I have gotten your point and clearly. Now, I fully support introducing young hunters, or older new hunters to the sport, as you described in you last post.

But the article DOES say that we should support any type of hunting. I see you are from VA, as am I, so you are familiar with dog hunting. The article clearly uses hound hunting as an example we should support without question. I disagree greatly on this issue.

The dog hunting (let me specify that I am talking about hunting deer with dogs only) I have witnessed in VA has been very negative. This includes blatent trespassing, killing deer out of season, killing deer with an illegal weapon, killing deer at night, killing does during buck only season, intentionally using dogs to run does out of a buck only state controlled land (state forest land) onto private land where does are in season, killing more than the legal deer limit, not turning in deer, and the such. I tried hunting with dog hunting clubs a few times. I was personally criticized for not shooting two illegal does because it would have "stopped the dogs, and we don't want to waste time chasing them over a few stupid does."

Now my point: Dog hunting is very visible to the public, and presents an image of hunters that gets applied to all hunters. Blatent disregard for hunting regulations and property rights that is visible to the public presents a negative image that in my opinion is much more destructive to hunting as a whole than eliminating one form of hunting would. We must remember that like it or not, we are not the voting majority and the the public opinion of the general population DOES matter. Now, if hound hunting was performed ina responsible, respectful manner, fine. Have at it. But, currently in my area or central VA it is not, and most of the complaints I hear from non-hunting citizens about hunting involves dog hunting clubs.

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I hear what you are saying. But we cannot be afraid of change.Everything goes through a type of evolution. Who knows some change may be a benefit. Some of us just may have to suck it up for the betterment of the whole cause. I just do not see a world without hunting no matter how much gloom is cast on the subject.

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Bow builder. All of the examples you gave are clearly illegal and not a part of hunting with dogs. I am sure people do the same thing without dogs. I am not calling them hunters because they are not hunters they are slobs that do not follow the rules. If hunting with a dog and doing it legally what is the problem with it. All people that breack the rules should be criticized but not the hunters that use dogs and do it legally.

I hear about people chasing deer with their trucks through corn fields in Nebraska. They are rifle hunting butthat doesn't make rifle hunting unethical.

Just MO

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Wheatley, you are right. The majority of what I said is illegal hunting. But, that is what I see coming from the dog hunting clubs. So, should I turn a blind eye to it, and support dog hunting because it is a form of hunting. I say NO because it negatively impacts other forms of hunting due to negative public opinion. I believe jmbuckhunter understands what I am trying to say. Change in some forms of hunting is necessary, and in some cases desirable.

Now, for a non-illegal example. In many counties in central VA the land is getting divided up into ever so small portions as development moves to the "country". Dog hunting now may not be a practical means of hunting in these areas due to the increased development, deer/vehicle collision risk, etc. It may be better for the community as a whole to stop that form of hunting because of this. Just an example...

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Is it really such a bad comparison? I don't consider the WHA to be hunting either. But, some people did, or the orginization would not be in existance. I don't consider sitting buy my pickup truck at the edge of the road waiting on a dog to run a deer up to me to be hunting either...IMO...but I know a lot of people "hunt" this way.

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Well I look at it this way. Our state departments of wildlife and fish have sensible members within their ranks. They decide what is considered legal for taking game within the state. They take into account ethics and game management. I'm quite sure they are looking out for the best interests of the wildlife within the state. The terrain and how game is best persued is left up to their capable hands. I like to think that they are not influenced by any one religion or the special interests of any particular group of people. Hunting wasa way of like in the beginning and it continues today. Good sportsman respect game and isn't that what we are all supporting good sportsman.Sure we allhold ourselves to different standards and that is to be commended, but consider that there are standards that our government creates to be fair to all sportsman. So as long as a hunter or fisherman is operating within these standards he or she should be commended and accepted as a fellow hunter/fisherman.
Dogs if it is legal sure, bait if it is legal sure, crossbows if their legal sure because if they are within the law then more power to them! and Those anti-hunter groups have no right to interfere with law abiding citizens who are doing their part for wildlife conservation and enjoyment!!

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Sorry...........

Still don't like cross-bows;)

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Since my earliest memories of the hunt, I was taught that hunting is about values and ethics. Dad never got mad if I didn't get a deer. But he tanned my hide if Iviolated the values of the hunt, whetheron the mountain or in town. Now Dad's gone and I'm a grown man, but I'm not going to give up thosevalues, and I'm sure not going to do itfor the sake of politics. That's not to say that I won't keep an open mind, either.We're never too old to learn something.

Values and ethics are quickly disappearing from the hunt. Foremost among those values is respect - respect for the land, respect for wildlife, respect for yourself,respect for people.Lack of respect indiscussions between huntersis what's harmful. Simply accepting any and all"hunting" practices is, to me, unethical. Sorry.

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Wow, I didn't expect this thread to go this direction but I guess I'm not really that surprised. Bowbuilder, first I am from Va and unfortunately I understand the problems with dog hunting that you speak of. However, I know several dog drivers that behave exactly opposite of how you described. They are aware that they are in the public eye and genuinely care about their dogs and presenting a positive image. In any activity you can think of,people break rules, laws, etc. You do not punish everyone for the illegal actions of a small group. I personally know that if your local wardenis not controlling his area and enough people contact the VA DGIF they will address the problems. It might take a couple of seasons to start getting their point across (tickets, fines) but they will respond. I know you brought dog hunting up because it is very visible to you, let me ask you this, do you think they are the only ones breaking hunting laws??
Second, I see your point about the WHA. Someone did organize it and start it so I guess that group of people sees it as hunting but it is only hunting in the dictionary definition sense of the word (to pursue game). If you look at it that simply you could stretch or morph hunting into anything you wanted but I feel most people on this site know that hunting is much more than that. Abuelo you are absolutely correct. Values, respect, morals, and ethics are things of the past. Not just in hunting but in society. This post was not meant to say support all hunting or things you don't believe in. I had hoped it would cause some soul searching. If you don't like certain kinds of hunting,it's easy , don't participate. Mentor someone new in the methods you believe focusing more on values, respect,morals, ethics, and things of that nature. Focus more on principles rather than methods. However, I still feel you should respect other hunters even if you dont' agree with their methods(as long as their methods are legal and approved by your local Game Dept.) It's easy to tear someone or something down but don't we have enough other people/organizations trying to do that for us? That's all for me I just thought the article was good and brought to light some good points.

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New, thanks for posting the thread and link to the article.

I have to admit that as a hunter I do not fall in lock step with all issues and organizations related to hunting. I have had my own mentors, experiences and opinions that guide my actions and support. I do not support combining archery and crossbow seasons as 1 "archery season", but do support crossbows as a legal hunting weapon. That stance has me squarely against other hunters. I personally do not support fenced game killing, but that stance also has me squarely against fellow hunters. I often stand up against the few "radical" QDM people I know who push their own viewson what consitutues harvestable animals on othersto aggressively; and this also has me occasionaly squarely against other hunters.

You makea very valid point concerning hunters who feel that their sports longevity is important should be active in recruiting and setting high standards. If one were to not feel the same way as you, that is alright to. Sometimes it is fine for a guy to be "just a hunter" and not be a political activist, member or lobbyist. As long as ahunter follows the rules and laws, isn't italright for some to just "support" hunting by buying a license and go about it legally and ethically? As a "hunter" I get buried in junk mail and announcements that without my support "and oddly MONEY is always a part of it" hunting as we know it is going to end. I personally don't think so. It may change, but then again it has since my Dad started and even since I have. The future isn't all that bleak if you ask me.

One last point, for those guys who think that "pirates" within the hunting ranks are a strictly new thing, (like the bad dog club mentioned earlier) I beg to differ. They have been around as long as hunting had rules and any guy who doesn't know of old time deer camps where "camp meat" was never tagged and reported hasn't been around all that long. Some of the worst I have known ofare long gone themselves now.

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I'm with MA Jay on this one. The "sky is falling" hysteria that I see amongst the ranks is meritless, and I think the article is way off base. Okay, maybe over the past twenty years, we've dwindled from 16.5 Million to 15 Million domestically - attribute that to what you want, but the baby boomers are getting old, and IMO, that's just the natural progression of things. I don't think it has much to do with PETA, politics, church, religion, or infighting among sportsmen.

People have always whined and complained, and there have always been groups who oppose what we do. Nothing new. The only real truth about hunting is that it never really changes. You always have your guys who insist that deer are becoming extinct - others who detest bows - guys who cry about rifle hunters - and so on... That's why most of us like it - because it never changes. You always go back to your roots. It's the same thing every year, with new deer, new stomping grounds, new equipment, but the same old ballgame.

Call me nuts, but I don't see the crisis that the author sees. This guy is acting like we should be lined up at the doors of the elementary school, drafting 12-year-olds to take uphunting to "save our sport." I have news: Our sport doesn't need saved. Just look around - there are more sport shops in my town than there have ever been. Hunting now has its own TV channel. Archery has absolutely exploded over the past 20 years. Non-resident licensing revenues are at record levels. Licensing revenues at large are higher than ever. Cabelas is nearing Fortune-500 status.

Y'all are just getting whipped up into a tizzy over nothing. Nobody is coming to take your guns away. Nobody is gonna ban hunting in all 50 states. The Bogey man isn't coming to take your broadheads. The game lands will be open for business next year. The IRS isn't coming to re-po your deerheads.

I just get sick of constantly hearing all this whining about how hunting is in danger, we need to get more people into it... blah blah blah. Get a grip.

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Those are good points and I don't think the sky is falling. Often I work myself into a tizzy over nothing. As I stated earlier there are a lot of anti organizations and even though they usualy pose little to no threat they are still there. They are starting to join together in some cases to boost resources and that is disturbing to me because money talks. They are not trying to ban hunting in 50 states, they like to single out certain lands, hunts, or small areas to get a precedent established. I am not an activist, I don't contribute money to any groups or lobbyists. I simply try to introduce new people to our sport andthink we as hunters need to stay on our toes and hopefully if we ever need todefend ourselves against any real threat to hunting we will be able to support one another despite differences. It is certainly O.K. to be just a hunter but I also want my great grandkids kids to have that option as well. But that is just my opinion and it is open to comment and subject to change.

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Some good points have been made, and a friend provided me with the following which came from a Quail Unlimited site. I guess whether the sky is falling or not depends on where you are standing.[*]Anti-hunting activists almost halted this year's dove, duck and goose seasons in at least six states and did halt a dove season in Michigan up until this year. Thanks to funding from our last campaign, we were able to work with other wildlife groups involved to beat the anti-hunters at their own game in this state. However, they don't intend to give up![*]Anti-hunters closed down the mountain lion season in California and now are working in Arizona. They have stated that they plan to do the same for bear and deer hunting throughout the country.[*]Quail Unlimited has been informed that we can expect the same tactics that closed dove season, mountain lion season and other hunting seasons to be used to close quail seasons in a number of states within the next three years, and they will do it unless we come up with the money to stop them.[*]As you read this, anti-hunters are attempting to halt bear hunting in Michigan, Idaho and New Jersey.[*]Anti's have attempted to halt the transplanting of ruffed grouse in Colorado; now they are on an anti-meat campaign.[*]Animal rights activists have sabotaged numerous medical research labs that were seeking cures for cancer, AIDS, SIDS and drug/alcohol dependency and have caused damage well into the millions. Some medical researchers say that their efforts have been set back 10 years or more.[*]One of the largest anti-hunting groups has proposed an actual ban on the specific breeding of dogs and cats (consider what that type of legislation would do to maintaining bird dog lines, field trialing, etc.).[*]Some animal rights groups are even proposing that all cattle, poultry and farm animals be "released from captivity" immediately. These same groups are calling for a ban on any and all uses of animals for food, clothing, hunting, fishing and trapping.[*]A proposed ban on lead shot for upland hunting (including quail) appeared in a recent issue of the Federal Register. This is backed by anti-hunting groups.[*]The anti-hunting group, Fund for Animals, has launched a national campaign to stop state-sponsored youth hunter training courses.

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I somewhat tend to agree with 'quiksilver'. Yes, the anti's are a pain in the patoot and always will be but there is way too much money from hunting that support our parks and wildlife, not to mention the multi-billion dollar hunting related item businesses. I have the right to disagree with my fellow hunter just as much as we both have the right to hunt. It's kind of like you can fight with your brother but anybody who jumps on him better be ready for you, too. No, I don't particularly feel like I have to always smile at every kind of hunting or hunter and do a group hug just because some freak may think theres a chink in the armor and will be able to take away my hunting privelages. IMO, the more dangerous thing facing todays hunter is hunting opportunities. Land and affordable land is damaging our sport more than anything. Our jobs seem more demanding, prices of just about everything is going up while wages don't seem to keep up with the pace. Public land is scarce and overcrowded. Private land is getting high fenced and leased out at staggering prices. Or its leased up with most of the surrounding properties by 'outfitters' who charge an arm and a leg for day or weekend 'guided' hunts, which means they will take you to where the deer are and tell yo which deer you can take for what you paid. Its getting tougher to teach the kids to hunt when you can't find a place to take them. I know several guys who've pretty much given up hunting for these reason. Too busy at work, leases out of control, etc. I don't know one who's given up because of the anti's . I think some of us are so focused on a non-issue that we're not seeing the real 'enemy'. We can fight the anti's till the cows come home but what is being done to expand hunting opportunities? I sure haven't heard of anything being done. How about subsidising landowners to lease out their land at a capped price? Opening up more public land? If high-fence operations are going to use the deer, which belong to the state, to profit from, then pass to legislation to require them to allow some public hunting along with paid hunts. Or require them to have their land certified as native species free after the high fence goes up. Then they would have to import their stock and everyone would no exactly what they were getting - fabricated animals. I don't know the answers but I see a problem that doesn't look like its going to get better. I used to play a lot of golf but after 3 kids found I didn't really have the time or money to enjoy the game like I used to. If I've got some free time, anymore, I'd just as soon spend it in the country. But the way things are headed I can see hunting ending up like golf. Not enough time and too much money. Well, that may not be all of the things I think but some. Oh, did I mention I love all you guys? :D

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Some good points by all.Anti's are a pain the "patoot" more than a real threat most of the time. But as awshucks post shows they do succeed at small levels in some areas. Even though it does not personally affect me or my hunting it is still anattack on meand my beliefs. These groups single out areas/huntsuse their occasional victories to promote and support further attempts to stop hunting or establish some kind of precedent. I'm sure there is more info like the info provided from the Quail Unlimited site and if anyone knows any links I would appreciate having them just so I had a better feel for some of the things these anti organizations were trying,even ifjust for my own personal knowledge. I feel any victory for these organizations is 1 too many but I also know that until it really affectsan individualpersonally most aren't too pro-active, myself included. But one small area could turn into one small county then just one state etc., etc., etc. I know it's unlikely but only time will tell. I guess all we can do is try to stay on our toes and do what we can when we can or as necessary.

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I realize this may seem like preaching to the choir, but I just want to take a moment of ya'lls time to point out there are some REAL dedicated people out there trying to take away your/my/our rights. Often times they are so ridiculous they are ignored. You have folks like Schumer, Hillary, B. Boxer, Ms. Brady's bunch all after your gun rights. They are not going to be satisfied w/ banning one or two types. You have Peta, Hsus, others joining forces and most importantly money to do many things not in your/my/our best interests. Look at the Assualt weapon ban. They got that thru because the duck hunters, bowmen, fly fishers, ect.didn't care. All the while that farce was in force, it was still legal to own a fully automatic machine gun, if you wanted to jump thru some hoops. Did any of ya'll ever hear of one of that crowd spraying a bunch down? Me neither. My point is that with all the sporting activities out there, no matter your particular field[s] of interest, we need to take the time to be concerned and alert enough to fire an email or two off even if the present proposed lunacy doesn't affect us personally. There's a quote I'm sure I've only got partially correct that goes something like this: "All it takes for evil to triumph, is for good men to do nothing." I've heard it attributed to several Revolutionary War figures but it holds true today. Thanks for your time.

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Divide and conquer. It is a method that works all to well. I am possibly to quick to blurt out that I am a hunter but rather than sit back on my heels I want to at least provoke a disscussion. It seems as hunters we think that all those who don't hunt are " Anti-Hunting" but I believe it isa lack of exposure more than anything else. Don't defend your sport. Instead let them know how cool it feels to be out in the woods in the dark or to hear the crunch of leaves as achipmunk sneaks up behind your stand. If we hunted just for meat, I know there would be at least one hungry guy in here looking for a little deer burger

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I should have read this thread before posting mine on canned hunts. I cant agree more with you. I feel hunters have done more damage to hunting than antis have.

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Great Article NEW......I couldn't agree more with your thoughts. I think many people want to do something, but are not sure "what" that somethng is. You offer the obvious supports of joining organizations, mentoring new hunters, and promoting our sport/lifestyle, but your "real" question still has gone un-answered............"How can we do these things better?"


One suggestion would be for a push to implement the sport of archery in the school system. 28 states have it, including Virginia, but i have yet to see it in the Southeastern region of the state. Why is this? One reason could be because of the lifestyles of this region. Wouldn't you agree?

One way to gain more support, have an established mentoring program, and raise safety awareness(which would help with some of the negativity) could be to push for the implementation of archery in the Physical Education curriculum in the school system. The sad thing is.......only a small handful of individuals would actually write the school adminstrations for this cause.

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Sorry but I don't see a die hard bowhunter remotely in the same league or class as a weekend warrior dog deer drivin' browner downer and that it is they who are "the enemy within" or "without" ...depends on how you look at it.

And I don't know if it's just me and where I'm from but I have personally never met a true "anti". I have had discussions with folks who say they couldn't do it and so on but none who vehemently opposed hunting. I know they are out there but I've never met one and just wonder where the hell they all live. Never say never but hunting is such big business these days that I see it only expanding in the near future.

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Your absolutely right it depends on who you are and how you look at it. I do see a die hard bow-hunterin the same league as weekend warrior doghunter because I am both. During bow season, blackpowder, and gun season I like to bowhunt and am extremely dedicated. From my compounds to my stick bows I love it. But that doesn't mean if friends or family ask me todog hunt I that I don't do it. It is a huge thing in my area and I enjoy it very much the few weekendsI get to go. I think most people I hunt with are weekend warriors only because of work not because of choice.Most of the dog drivers Ihunt withhave loads of knowledge about the ways of the whitetail.Yes, we kill a lot of deer and nowe do not discriminate but we do follow the laws and only take legal deer, so I guess I am a"browner-downer". But I am O.K. with that. I kill deer, as many as I have tags for. I lovevenison, myfamily loves venison. We use it for everything deer burgers, tacos/burritos, spaghetti, lasagna,and everyones favorite Deerburger Helper!! I process my meat, vacuum seal it, andfreeze it for the whole year. That's five people in my home and several relatives within close proximity so how much meat doI need?? Skip the math, it is a lot.Jelen, I guess my point isit is easy to draw opinions and generalizations about people or groups of people from things you have seen or heard but until you actually get to knowsomeone and what motivates them your opinions might be a little off (when people are lumped into big, general groups you lose the ability to evaluate individuals).I also agree that hunting does have a great future, but just a word to the wise, there are people and groups who do oppose hunting and just because you have never met one doesn't mean they don't exist.
Anyway, good luck and good hunting(whatever kind you prefer).

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N.E.W.,

I find it funny that we completely gotten of track in regards to your original post. Didn't you ask "how we could do these things better?"


I don't think debating over which style of hunting is at the top of the totem pole is the way to deal with "the enemy within."

What do you think is the better way to mentor, collaborate, and help provide this lifestyle with a more decorated future? Especially in the regions in which you live. After all, i would hate for Zach and Nate Frogg to have limitations that could cause your family traditions to become altered.

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I am strong in my approach to deer hunting and the immense love I have of deer and the hunt of them. DNR's and the like are hugely lacking in their ability to sufficiently manage deer in most states and I feel they throw out tag limits as a means of a shot in the dark to appease mostly legislatures and beaurocrats but not to meet the actual needs of a deer herd and its' health...with that being so, to fill every single tag imaginable for every variety of weapon season it might be in my opinion could be potentially harmful. I'm quite sure you put the meat you harvest to good use no doubt whatsoever, but is that what is best for the future of the deer herd and best for the future deer hunters in your area? Just something to think of. I am of the opinion that if an individual has the intent of taking a deer out of the population, then that individual should know the ramifications of those acts by educated facts and not by a statewide mandate. They should have at least a broad based knowledge of buck-to-doe ratios, average buck population ages, and average fawn mortality in their area. Just my two cents. I appreciate the post and the discussion. Good luck to you as well.

RE: The Enemy Within......
 

I understand your reply as I was a little bit vague. Allow me to clarify. I hunt in several areas all across my state, encompassing thousands of acres. And in each area I have an intimate knowledge of the local herd and management concerns. When hunting on my private farm that is only about 100 acres I am extremely conservative about the amount of deer harvested and all guests are aware of what we try to do there. In contrast, when I am dog hunting the area we hunt is thousands of acres in extremely rural areas. These areas are made up of massive woodlots, swampland, marshland, and agriculture on top of agriculture. These areas have an extremely high carrying capacity for whitetails. We harvest lots of deer and still never meet the expected harvest total that the local DNR representatives recommend. We are issued DMAP stamps by the 100's to help reduce doe numbers and to assist local farmers. If we don't kill enough of them then the farmers are often issued DCAP tags to eliminate deer and they can do this any time of year, night or day and the deer are not to be used (meaning they leave them lay). I would certainly rather kill them during the season and have the venison used. Our club alone donated over 2500 lbs of venison to local people and to Hunters for the Hungry. I love deer hunting and the hunt is in me but I'm not sure that means I love deer. I respect my prey, I love my dog. Wait, I take that back I do love deer.....and potatoes.....and gravy....and biscuits.J/K

RE: The Enemy Within......
 

I agree in principle, but disagree with the application. To simply put a blanket of condonement on any and all types of 'hunting' is not th eanswer. Standardization, a common understanding of ethical practices, educated and well spoken representatives, and coopertion among any and all law enforcement, game management officials is the answer. There are things that go on in the hunting community that need to be regulated and controlled. To extend a carte blanche , 'whatever floats your boat' approach will accelerate and fule the antis. If they see us stepping to teh plate , and in solidarity voice our opinions and even better, take some action against these questionable practices, then it will confuse them and take away one of their greatest weapons against us. There is a pereption problem that needs remedying, and there are PR problems that need remedying, and there are practices that need to be stopped. It will take more of an effort to do this, but taking this acceptance of anything titled 'hunting' is ludicrous. We need to be leaders and strong men that are willing to take on the challenge of making some difficult steps to bring some honor and integrity to th eout of control and down spiraling effect that has seen hunting become a circus act on many of the outdoor channels, and such self correcting, self policing as I have seen take place among dog hunters, who admitted that there was a problem and have taken it upon themselves to form a group of responsible measures to clean up their act is what I am talking about. In S Ga, these guys were losing their rights due to irresponsible practices, and a disregard for the laws and people's properties as well as still hunters. It was putting a great deal of pressure on them, and they were losing county after county--until they got self regulated, and cleaned up their act. This is what we as hunters in general need to do--not bury our heads in the sand and sit around campfire singing kumbayah! Speak up and clean up!