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10-31-2002, 08:21 AM
#2
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 7,571
RE: Strained Friendship
I think you are 100% right. Did your friend take a bowhunters education course? Just wondering. You may want to refer him back to what he had learned from it if so. There is also some good info on the net that you could refer him to. It seems like you care about him, so I would relay back to him, but you are a little concerned about his hunting ethics and would like to help out the best you can. Hopefully he will respond positively. Take the attutude of let the past be past and move him on from here. Good luck to you.
P.S. Please help him track if he makes another bad shot. I can't count the times that I had to stop hunting to help.
P.S. Please help him track if he makes another bad shot. I can't count the times that I had to stop hunting to help.
10-31-2002, 08:22 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: WA, USA
Posts: 143
RE: Strained Friendship
No, You did the right thing. I would NEVER hunt with someone like that, EVER!. It's guys like that that give the ethical bowhunters bad press.
Whoever said there is no such thing as a stupid question has never worked in Law Enforcement.
Whoever said there is no such thing as a stupid question has never worked in Law Enforcement.
10-31-2002, 08:25 AM
#4
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hico, WV USA
Posts: 393
RE: Strained Friendship
Lazy-
I think you are in the right...part of being a sportsman is showing respect for the quarry and being responsible and accountable.
I have had similar problems that cost me a good friend. I had a great friend that was a great hunter, but bent the rules way too often. One time while helping him cut up a spike (which I later found out he didn't check so he could shoot another) we got talking about turkey hunting. He told me how he could shoot one, have it breasted out and buried before anyone knew he had shot one.....
While it made me mad as hell, I didn't lose my temper and tried to tell him how that was wrong etc. etc....he got defensive and told me, "you're just a better man than me". Needless to say, I rarely talk to him much and certainly don't hunt or fish with him anymore.
Sorry to make the post long, but trying to make the point that you aren't alone in your dilemma.
I think you are in the right...part of being a sportsman is showing respect for the quarry and being responsible and accountable.
I have had similar problems that cost me a good friend. I had a great friend that was a great hunter, but bent the rules way too often. One time while helping him cut up a spike (which I later found out he didn't check so he could shoot another) we got talking about turkey hunting. He told me how he could shoot one, have it breasted out and buried before anyone knew he had shot one.....
While it made me mad as hell, I didn't lose my temper and tried to tell him how that was wrong etc. etc....he got defensive and told me, "you're just a better man than me". Needless to say, I rarely talk to him much and certainly don't hunt or fish with him anymore.
Sorry to make the post long, but trying to make the point that you aren't alone in your dilemma.
10-31-2002, 08:29 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Illinois
Posts: 28
RE: Strained Friendship
I think you were right for doing what you did. I have grown up my entire life around hunting and the outdoors and I have seen my father's friends of many years come and go over issues like that. But it is the right thing to do. As a community, hunters need to stick together and help each other out so that we aren't wounding and losing deer on a consistent basis. That type of sloppy behavior only gives the antihunters more ammunition to use against us, and its the last thing we need right now.
There is a fine line between yelling at someone and sitting them down and explaining to them what they are doing wrong and what they need to do to correct the problem. A lot of people get VERY defensive when they feel that their judgement and ethical choices are being questioned. If there's one thing that my hours and hours of sensitivity and management training at work has taught me its that you have to make a person feel comfortable instead of threatened in situations like this, use SPECIFIC examples with them, and ask lots of open ended questions. Granted it won't work on everyone, but its worth a shot.
If this is a friendship that you don't care to lose I think it might be a good decision to approach your friend again and see what he says this time. Who knows, what you said may have sunk into his head by now and he'll apologize to you for acting like he did. The last thing you should do however is NOT say anything to him. Then you become just as much of the problem as he is.
I think that's all for now.
There is a fine line between yelling at someone and sitting them down and explaining to them what they are doing wrong and what they need to do to correct the problem. A lot of people get VERY defensive when they feel that their judgement and ethical choices are being questioned. If there's one thing that my hours and hours of sensitivity and management training at work has taught me its that you have to make a person feel comfortable instead of threatened in situations like this, use SPECIFIC examples with them, and ask lots of open ended questions. Granted it won't work on everyone, but its worth a shot.
If this is a friendship that you don't care to lose I think it might be a good decision to approach your friend again and see what he says this time. Who knows, what you said may have sunk into his head by now and he'll apologize to you for acting like he did. The last thing you should do however is NOT say anything to him. Then you become just as much of the problem as he is.
I think that's all for now.
10-31-2002, 08:33 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 2,413
RE: Strained Friendship
I believe you are taking the high road on what is a good shot, but I wouldn't think much of your manner if I was that friend.
You don't treat a good friend like a child and expect to keep the friendship. I don't have a single friend who doesn't have a fault or two. I certainly have my share of them. However, I would never lay down such rules in that manner without fully expecting to lose the friendship. No one takes well to being told what to do by a friend. Now, if you're a father figure or role model, it can be a different story, but a peer should be treated differently.
I had friends who bowhunt and didn't take the best shots in the world. I always attempt to sway their opinion of a shot worth taking, by setting an example and talking about it in a friendly way. I frequently talk about the shots I pass up and why I do it. When they miss, I'll make a little joke out of it. After awhile the jokes hit home a little more than they like. Without a doubt my influence has affected their shot selection. They don't miss near as many deer as they use to, and we're still friends.
You don't treat a good friend like a child and expect to keep the friendship. I don't have a single friend who doesn't have a fault or two. I certainly have my share of them. However, I would never lay down such rules in that manner without fully expecting to lose the friendship. No one takes well to being told what to do by a friend. Now, if you're a father figure or role model, it can be a different story, but a peer should be treated differently.
I had friends who bowhunt and didn't take the best shots in the world. I always attempt to sway their opinion of a shot worth taking, by setting an example and talking about it in a friendly way. I frequently talk about the shots I pass up and why I do it. When they miss, I'll make a little joke out of it. After awhile the jokes hit home a little more than they like. Without a doubt my influence has affected their shot selection. They don't miss near as many deer as they use to, and we're still friends.
10-31-2002, 08:34 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Shrewsbury NJ USA
Posts: 26
RE: Strained Friendship
You are spot on here!!
Although I have hunted for years, I have only started bow hunting this year at the urging of some good friends. But, even being a bow hunting "Newbie" I understand what shots I can and should take and what the capabilities of my equipment and skills sets are.
The fact of the matter is that we have all passed on deer because it was too dark, poor angle, to far a distance, etc. And, quite honestly, for most of us making the decision to "pass" in those situations is not a difficult thing to do.
As a newbie bow hunter I am finding that I get a lot of satisfaction from the "hunt" itself. Sure, I am sure that my heart will be beating out of my chest the first time I actually make a kill with a bow, but I am not going to throw my ethics and common sense out the window to do it.
In life if you are going stand on something you would be hard pressed to find fault standing on solid ethics!!
____________________________________________
"Vegetarian" - also translated as "Bad Hunter"!!
Although I have hunted for years, I have only started bow hunting this year at the urging of some good friends. But, even being a bow hunting "Newbie" I understand what shots I can and should take and what the capabilities of my equipment and skills sets are.
The fact of the matter is that we have all passed on deer because it was too dark, poor angle, to far a distance, etc. And, quite honestly, for most of us making the decision to "pass" in those situations is not a difficult thing to do.
As a newbie bow hunter I am finding that I get a lot of satisfaction from the "hunt" itself. Sure, I am sure that my heart will be beating out of my chest the first time I actually make a kill with a bow, but I am not going to throw my ethics and common sense out the window to do it.
In life if you are going stand on something you would be hard pressed to find fault standing on solid ethics!!
____________________________________________
"Vegetarian" - also translated as "Bad Hunter"!!
10-31-2002, 10:00 AM
#8
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: , IL USA
Posts: 277
RE: Strained Friendship
WTG Lazy!
Say it like you mean it. The fact that you were still willing to go hunting WITH him on YOUR property shows that you do value his friendship.
It may have hurt his ego to have talked with him like that, but he now knows where you stand.
It might not be too bad if you extend the first branch of peace though. Offer to take him hunting again. If he takes unresponsible shots again, you now know his true nature.
Good luck!
My brother in law has NEVER shot a bow & now wants me to take him deer hunting (wants to use my bow)- in mid season. Not going to happen.
I told him that I'd love to take him next year afer he's been practicing with his own bow. Guy makes a ton of money 150k + - yet won't fork over the cash to get an outfit. He's not using mine.
"It's not the kill, it's the adventure and challenge! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>"
Say it like you mean it. The fact that you were still willing to go hunting WITH him on YOUR property shows that you do value his friendship.
It may have hurt his ego to have talked with him like that, but he now knows where you stand.
It might not be too bad if you extend the first branch of peace though. Offer to take him hunting again. If he takes unresponsible shots again, you now know his true nature.
Good luck!
My brother in law has NEVER shot a bow & now wants me to take him deer hunting (wants to use my bow)- in mid season. Not going to happen.
I told him that I'd love to take him next year afer he's been practicing with his own bow. Guy makes a ton of money 150k + - yet won't fork over the cash to get an outfit. He's not using mine.
"It's not the kill, it's the adventure and challenge! <img src=icon_smile_big.gif border=0 align=middle>"
10-31-2002, 11:22 AM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,568
RE: Strained Friendship
It's just a wounded deer, so what if it's got an arrow stuck out of it's butt for a week or two. A few years ago, I saw an deer with an arrow stuck in it's jaw, so what. But, wait, it's almost dark and that's a nice buck, gosh that must be 50 yards, let that arrow fly....oops, it looks like I hit the front leg, oh well, at least there's no need to track it, it ain't going to die, coyotes will get it in a week or two.
Lazy, I don't want to hunt with people that think like this. I don't want their friendship and I don't want to sit around the campfire and listen to their stories so I guess I'm saying I'd handled it the same way you did.
Lazy, I don't want to hunt with people that think like this. I don't want their friendship and I don't want to sit around the campfire and listen to their stories so I guess I'm saying I'd handled it the same way you did.