RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

Geez, Some people sure do have thin skin.
Mex, I was just funnin with ya and no degrading was intended. Thats why I put a little happy face there. If I gave you the impression I insulted you than you have my sincere apology. I just thought you could see a little humor from someone whom may of been envious. Good Day.

Bobby

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

You know, I have killed alot of animals with a bow. A few of them were "Canned " hunts. I won the first one in a raffle, and went back twice more after that. At the time I lived in Pa., and that was the only way I could afford to hunt Boars. (hogs) It wasn't easy and ALOT of fun. Would I call thatreal hunting? Probably not, but nevertheless, I and my father (whom you better not DARE to say something bad about) made some great lifelong memories. You say that you are such an ethical hunter, well sir, an ethical hunter in my opinion is a good man. HOWEVER, a good man would never bash another hunter because he did not agree with his methods. When your opinions degrade or beliitle something someone is proud of, maybe you should keep your unsolicited opinions to you self righteous self.

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

very well said....it's sad to see a thread like this turn into a bitchfit fight....Congratulations on your deer though guys. I feel bad for ya that this thread had to go sour.

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

BerwindaleBoy, I can't speak for everyone here, but I agree with you 100%. All I asked, as a Hunter, was not to call shooting fenced in animals "hunting". I said clearly that I agreed with the man's right to do it, I just do not take lightly people degrading the sport I love. Just as you feel strongly that your Dad is a good man, I think of Hunting in much the same way, and do not want people to think that shooting fenced animals is hunting.

Enough said.

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Wow, that is one hell of a deer, my dream deer. I couldnt even imagine seeing that thing walk towards me. Congrats on the other fine animals as well.

It upsets me that this thread has taken such a negative turn. Maybe i dont think the same way as most do, but quite honestly, i could care less how anyone kills an animal. Killing a true mature free ranging white tail is one of the harder things to do in the outdoors, my hat goes off to all who can do it. I think that this whole canned hunt thing has gotten out of control. Some of the high fenced ranches are tens of thousands of acres. Give me a break that the deer doesnt have a fair chance to elude you. Obviously small enclosures are different, but if someone chooses to go and kill an animal there, whats the big deal? The animals that are in those enclosures were bred to be in there, they arent wild animals, they are livestock, but who cares. If someone goes and does that, if they enjoy themselves, lets say congrats on the animal and leave it at that. Obviouslyhunting a small preserve isnt the same as a real hunt, butwho cares, to each their own. A person hunting in such a preserve doesnt hurt any of us in any way, lets all get off our moral high horses and all give it a rest. Sorry for the rant, and congrats on some great animals!

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Ok Bobby, no problem I missunderstud , I just didn't get it that way but thanks for your explanation, and you too have a good day,

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I never ever mentioned those words, and if you read all the posts complete maybe you'll understand what I was trying to explain.
And I love hunting, I never told anyone that I went to a farm etc....please check all the post
s

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I don't know what you're talking about , and I've never bash anyone who did a post, but if I get a bash from someone ofcourse I will return it.
thanks

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WO WO WO WAIT A SECOND MAjay I never told nothing about canned or fenced the ones that put those words on my tread where others , and 2 the doble droped t whitetail was hunted on the oppened areea(8000 acres )of the place I hunt, the others ofcourse where on a reserve or I don't know how to call it but is an extention of 6500 acres if that is called "canned or fenced " I don't know if you want to call it hunting or not But I really make the hunt ,I was not just waiting to someone to open a gate an make the shot, I stalked In those 6500 acres to get my unt done.
thanks

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Your words; I and my father (whom you better not DARE to say something bad about) By the way kid I'm not here to talk about anyone or anyone's parent on the site, I'm here to share, learn, have some fun, talk to interesting hunters.

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Mex, if you read the post carefully,you will realize that I was sticking up for you, in reply to some one saying negative things about your trophies!!!! Sorry if I confused you, and I hope this thread doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth about message boards. That buck is impressive, hope you aren't PO'd(P@#$ED off) Read the post again, you'll see what I mean.

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I gotta chime in one more time

I HATE canned hunting. Anyone who knows me knows that. Was this a "canned" hunt ? From what we've been given it was NOT a canned hunt.

Sure, it wasn't the same as a totally wild animal public land hunt in WV and with exotics and all .......... but canned ? No,I don't think it was.

If you want to bitch and complain, check the sponsors out on this hunting.net and send PM
to the Mod's about it. Theres your canned hunting, not a large texas high fenced ranch with 6,000-8,000 acres

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer 2 drop t
 

You guys need to step back and take a breath..Mex you don't have to get approval from anyone on this board on your kills, if you're happy with it you shouldn't defend it on here. By the way nice animals. Now let's play nice.

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Mexhuntr, it was not my intention to bash you for your choice of shooting fenced animals. As I have said many times on many forums, I believe you have the right to pay a farm/ranch/canned/fenced operation for the right to kill one of their pen raised animals. My only point, and it has been backed by you and several others, by using phrases like these-
[ul][*]I don't know if you want to call it hunting or not - Mexhuntr[*]Would I call that real hunting? Probably not - Berwindale[/ul]
Again, my point is to seperate "hunting" from shooting pen raised animals. Listen, you harvested that beautiful buck on open land, that deer was not raised or farmed for the sole purpose of someone to pay a fee to kill it. If it had travelled 1 or 2 miles west or south it could have found sanctuary. Since RedStags are not native in Texas, and as you stated, you shot it in a fenced pen where it was raised for slaughter just like a cow or pig. Little bigger pen, but it was still raised and fenced for harvest as soon as someone was willing to pay for it. Like you even admit, you don't know if we can call that hunting or not, but we both agree you have the right to do it. I ask, with no malice or bashing, to please not call it hunting. Call it harvesting, call it fun, call it an awesome time.... but when you call it hunting, the sport I have so much passion for has to then be aligned with Pen or Fenced operations, and while the one you were on may have been large, most aren't.

Guys, this isn't being negative or mean. Mexhuntr, I'd stand up and fight for your right to pay for the right to butcher your own animals, but if we can't differentiate hunting from shooting farmed animals then our "sport" doesn't have much hope.

I am off my soap box.

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Well, everyone have different ways to make or call it hunt lets just leave it like that dif points of view!
thanks

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looks like you had a great time

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I will not reply...... I will not reply.... I will not reply.... I will not reply..... I will not reply.... I will not reply...
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Ok calm down don't reply!:)

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MA Jay:

Shut up and get off of your high horse, before that famous scene in Blazing Saddles happens to you....

I've hunted on MANY high fenced ranches in South Texas, yet I've never hunted in a "pen" or "slaughterd anybodies cow". I'm proud to say that I've hunted on all of those ranches, because not just anybody is allowed behind the gates weather you have the money or not. I couldnt care less if they are high fenced or not. I dont know what state your from but I'm going to assume Maryland. Now tell me, how many 5,000+ acre private tracts of land are in that area of the country? What bussiness do you have to pipe in on something that you know nothing about? What does a guy from Maryland know about 10,000 acre high fenced ranch in Texas?

If I want to know how to hunt public land in some eastern state, and how to bag that "elusive" 1 1/2 year old 4 pointer then I might ask for your opinion, until then keep it to yourself.

One more thing I personally dont want to be associtated with any elmer fudd looking bubba that is out on over crowded public land in an Eastern state, who spends all season seeing 3 deer and finally killing the biggest buck he as seen all year which is a 1 1/2 year old 6 pointer. I think this is nothing more then an embarrisment and from here on out EVERYBODY who hunts this a way needs to refer to it as "harvesting" "fun" or "just hanging out with buddies". So since I dont approve of it, nobody can refer to it as hunting. Now if you need me I'll be back in my castle thinking of other things that I dont like....................

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GREAT TXhighrack very well said, and this goes to everyone that supported that point of view or way of thinking!

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TXhighrack,

Are you sure you want to do this? Ok, here it goes...

What exactly do you call a fenced in enclosure, other than a "pen"? Your pride in shooting penned animals is obvious from the passion in your tone. Does it matter the size of the pen? Do you only shoot animals in 5000 acre pens, what about 1000 acre pens, or 100 acre pens? As I said in my previous posts, I have no issue with your right to pay a farmer/rancher to shoot his farmed livestock. You do realize that in Texas animals such as Red Stag and Goats, which were the critters in the pics at the start of this thread, are considered "domesticated farm anaimals" right? Texas Parks and Wildlife does not have seasons on these animals and does not sell "hunting licenses" for them. So... if you pay a farmer or rancher to be allowed behind those high fences and shoot his penned in animals, that are not recognized game animals by Texas, do not require hunting licenses and are not WILD ANIMALS, how the hell can you call it HUNTING?

I am not saying you can't or shouldn't do it. Nope. Just asking you to please respect the whole concept of "HUNTING", alsoknown by some as the legalpursuit of wild and free ranging game.

As far as my personal hunting experiences, they have been documented over the years on this board and others. The "little" tract of land I hunt behind my house for thoseyoung deer is 7 miles by 3 miles of roadless woods. The elk I will chase across Colorado this fall, will probably be on a little patch of 20,000 acres or so. These areas do not sound like the kinds of places you would be interested in hunting though, as you can't push the critters up against a fence to be harvested. You would also have to buy an actual hunting license, and probably take a hunter safety course. Trust me here, your way of floating some cash to some farmer to killany day of any season any of the dozens of critters they have raised (exactly like cattle) is so much easier than the way us "HUNTERS" do it, as to be considered silly. Last time I checked, there weren't any heated tower stands with full beer coolers on the public or private land I or my family hunt.


You are to foolish to realize just how much damage you do to all of us hunters by trying to call shooting farmed and penned animals hunting. Do it all you want, but never think you are the equal of a person who harvests a legal free ranging deer, with a valid license during an actual hunting season.

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

Easy fellas...

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I have never hunted in an enclosure of any kind. However, a 1000 acre or more enclosure, doesn't seem to me to be a "Pen". I would like to see MA Jay, just try to push a whitetail up against a fence in a 100 acre enclosure much less a 1000 or more acre enclosure. I don't think that it can be done. His total exageration of large enclosure hunts ( yes hunts ) is laughable. The animals on these enclosures are not domesticated. There is no such thing as a domesticated whitetailed deer. They may be pen raised, but they are not domesticated. Also these animals are not raised like cattle. !000 or more acres is more than enough to sustain a herd of animals without the aid of human feeding. I personally do see a difference between a large enclosure hunt and a canned shooting event called a hunt. I don't understand some peoples need to chastise or belittle someone else because of the wat they hunt! If this was a canned event where you picked your animal out of a book or a pen to shoot it would be different. But to me hunting on such large enclosures does not seem to be a walk in the park that some of these people make it out to be. It sounds like they have no experience what so ever to back up these ridiculous statements. As far as hunting trophy animals goes, I would think that most people would know that P & Y and B& C doesn't recognize animals taken in enclosures before they went in and hunted. To some, listing an animal in the record books is not a concern. A quality hunt may take precedance. I feel that as long as someone is doing something that is legal, while hunting, and not against my beliefs, I'll congradulate them. If they are doing something legal. but against my beliefs, I'll say nothing at all. I will not chastise or belittle anyone for doing something that is legal.

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

MA JAY, and moderators dont lock this thread because I want to get the facts straight.............

First off, you need to get your facts straight or learn to keep your finger away from the keyboard. This is one thing that I HATE about hunting forums. Any dufus can come on and post anything that they want to make their opinion look better, then run off never to be heard from again.

FACT 1: Animals such as Red Stag, Corsican Rams, and Elk are not considered "domesticated farm animals" by the Texas P&WD. They are considered Exotic animals and have most of the same regulations that Native animals have.

FACT 2: Texas is a damn fine state, we do not have to apply for or draw any tags. We do not have to wait around for years just to get a chance to go hunting like you have to do is many other states. There are ALOT of animals in Texas that are native and non-native which do not have a hunting season. Exotic animals can be hunted year around. Javelina (as native as they come), Mountain Lion (also very native) and the popular wild boar can ALL be hunted year around. In fact not only can mountain lion and hogs be hunted year around, but THERE is no bag limit on either species. And by law a hunter can only take 2 javelina a year, although we have no tags to use or anyway of documentiong the number that each hunter kills. So the fact that an animal does not have a season, has absoluty no bearing on weather the animal is a challenge to hunt.

FACT 3: You dont get out much do you?? You said over 4 times in your above post that Texas does not have a lic. that hunters must buy inorder to hunt exotics. That is, of course FALSE. All residents of Texas must buy and posses a valid hunting lic. to hunt ANY animal in the state of Texas. NonResidents MUST buy an EXOTIC HUNTING LIC. from the state of Texas. If they are only hunting 5 or less days, then they can buy a level A lic. If they are hunting more then 5 days in one calendar year then they must buy the standard nonresident lic. which goes for $350.



I hunt in an area of the country in which the vast majority of landholdings are BIG. I personally have never hunted on a private piece of land that was less then 2,000 acres in size. The largest high fenced ranch that I've ever hunted was 47,000 acres in size. The ranch next door to that one, also completley high fenced, covers over 125,000 acres. I do not hunt on small tracts of land, nor do any of the people I hunt with, because in this area that is simply not the norm....

See your "concept of hunting" doesnt really mean squat to me. I personally will NEVER hunt on public lands, with the exception of some extremely remote area out west for elk or muledeer, but never for whitetail. I see all times of methods and tactics that people use to hunt whitetails, and I read stories about people hunting whitetails and game out west on public land. I personally have no desire to be associated with some of these people. So I guess I will send a PM to all of them and ask them to "please respect the whole concept of hunting" and not use that holly word of "hunting" anymore....

I'm not done yet, theres more on the next post........ read up...

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer 2 drop t
 

Nice pics. You must have had some fun.

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MA JAY:

IN this part of the country, an area like that is just another standard size ranch. I'd say that alot of the guys who hunt around here hunt on private pieces of land that big or bigger each and every year.

I personally own alittle more then half that many acres. 20,000 acres is a nice place, but considering your hunting an OTC unit in Colorado for elk, your sharing that land with hundreds of other people. Not my idea of fun, and something I would never do....

You are right, I have no desire to hunt either of those places, because I refuse to hunt in Sub-par habitat for sub-par animals. And I'll be damned if I will sit on a bluff and see more hunters then actual animals...Sorry but that just aint for me

That could perhaps me the most idiotic statement I've ever read on this site. And you are right, I'm not an "equal person to you" because of the places thatI hunt. Guys like yourself have to settle for OTC units in Colorado, while guys like me can hunt that 50,000 acre private land in New Mexico or buy an auction tag at a SFW banquet in Utah. So I guess where not on the same level. I guess that is why you have such an idiotic and biased view towards everything that happens off of public lands.....

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer 2 drop t
 

[&o]Sorry your thread tuned into everyone else's argument over what they think is right or wrong about hunting. Congratulations on a fine time and some fine TROPHYS:D

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer 2 drop t
 

damn, another pissing match.

i am very new to huntingnet.com and while i have read some valuable info on here, butwhy does everything have to turn to who hunts the most land, is fenced, is it not, are you hunter, are you a harvestor. WTF !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I only speak for myself, but this whole conversation that has taken place has been a turn off.

do you both wake up early, see the sun rise from a stand ( or on the ground, wouldnt want to start that fight). spend countless hours after any elusive animal. offseason dream of that big kill. take pride in what you do.
YOU ARE BOTH HUNTERS, everyone hunts wants what they can. some get better land than others. thats just life on lifes terms. i dont have the opportunity to hunt land everyday that produces 170in deer year after year. does that make me a bad hunter? i would hope people would not think that.hell give me either of the properties you guys hunt, fence it in dont fence it in i could care less. id be tickled pink to hunt it either way. anyways i would just like to say thanks for making me realize why i havent been a part of hunting forums in the past.
Good luck to all with your hunts and arguements.

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Thanks TXhighrack, think that will open MA JAY'S eyes(town guy).

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

EXOTIC HUNTING LIC. from the state of Texas. If they are only hunting 5 or less days.

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Mexhunter, good idea posting the actual Lic. I noticed that MA Jay was looking at this page earlier, but didnt post any more nonsense. I guess its kinda hard to dispute the facts....

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Sure it is!

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TXhighrack,

I stand corrected, Exotics is what Texas calls them.
"Exotic animal refers to grass-eating or plant-eating, single-hoofed or cloven-hoofed mammals that are not indigenous or native to Texas and are known as ungulates, including animals from the deer and antelope families that landowners have introduced into this state."
There are no state bag or possession limits or closed seasons, and you are not allowed to harvest one without the landowners permission. Verbatim from Parks and Wildlife.

Do you know what the rest of the world calls animals that have been purchased and bred and then released into enclosures where they are raised and then sold off? Farm animals... like cows,pig andsheep and in your case here, goats and red stag.

See, I never once knocked the right to buy a large piece of land, throw up a high fence and buy some animals to release inside the pen you made. One of the great things about America is you can do that here. But, when you turn your yard into a farm for game animals so you and your friends or paying customers can shoot them, it's no longer called hunting. I call an enclosure that has captive exotic animals a zoo.

When you say
You make it clear that if God didn't give Texas large herds of antelope or stags, you can buy some from a farmer andlet them lose in a pen, albeit a large one, feed them from troughs and feeders as we do other domesticated animals, then shoot them whenever you either see fit, or have a few bucks burning a hole in your pocket. If you honestly think that is hunting, then man are we from 2 different planets.

We both seem to have the money to pursue animals however we wish. I am sorry that you can't see how buying from a place like this http://www.wilsonwhitetails.com/exotics.htmlwhere they have had a 97.5% success rate on whitetail deer since 2000 and they state for Exotics -
Market availability and prices of exotics varies from time and time and exceptional animals command a higher price. Please check with us for current prices.

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

Yeah right! Ok different points of view, But we are hunters anyway, maybe not on your planet call it how you want!

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

I don't know how you make your hunting , but even if I'm on an open area, fenced or not I do my hunt the same way and I have to tell you something, those animals that you said "farm animals " are now feed like cattle they left on the brush, and are as wild as they are in any kind of wilderness, they won't come to you to get food or anything if they get to see you walking on the brush maybe they'll run or even attack you cause they're still wild.


Maybe this is how you figure the fenced hunting:
Like in the cattle bussines choose the one you like, behind the corral bars and let it walk thru a rail and just shoot.
Come On!

Is not like on Jmmy Houston's show!

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer
 

If you hunt on land that has "whatever" type of animal living on it, and that animal is not some kind of domesticated, trained circus animal, I dare you try and slip up on it. Man it just don't happen. I agree, I don't believe in hunting over timed feeders, just not right "to me". But if an animal has 6000 acres of land to roam around on, that is not a tame or trained animal. I have owned two deer in my life. Both yearling bucks. They were wild when we caught them as fawns and they were wild when we set them free. I'm not saying you can't tame a deer, but if they are not tame or trained,"to visit feeders", they will have to be hunted to be "harvested". I have to hunt 40 acres of my land that is surrounded by hunting clubs every season. The pressure from these clubs force deer into my area. Is that "penned" hunting? No, that is manmade circumstances that forces an animal to be in a certain area. (much like a rancher in Texas might fence in 100, 200, 500, 1000 acres of land and let deer live their and feed there.) Man made circumstances put alotof our deer within reach of us as hunters. I mean, if a guy hunts a 5 acre lot in the suburbs surrounded by houses, stores, etc., does that make those deer penned? No it does not and I guarantee you you will have to "hunt" those deer on that five acres. And if you aren't lucky or just plain good, you may not kill one all season. Well I guess that's just my 2 cents, but I can't stand for people to argue over such fruitless things as "OPINIONS". Just like ###holes everybody has one and it usually stinks, unless of course you are wearing scent lok.

LT

RE: GREAT HUNTING TRIP PICS !! awesome 12 pointer 2 drop t
 

By the way Mex, dangit I got caught up in the BS and forgot to congratulate you on your hunt. Fine animals, Love that drop tine.

LT

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Thats a different point of view and I agree with you!

The only thing I don't agree with is that I must not called hunting cause someone elses opinion!

I'm not saying this to you Louisiana Tomcat, double thanks.

By the way Mex, dangit I got caught up in the BS and forgot to congratulate you on your hunt. Fine animals, Love that drop tine

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Aww...so nice. This wouldn't be hunting.net if the "high and mightys" didn't step on someone's thread by posting their jibberish. LOL!! Well done for the few that have.

Hey..I have an idea. Leave Mex's thread alone and start your own..."I hate canned hunting thread" and have your fun. He was gracious enough to show us some pics on the great hunt he had and the few who felt like they need to spew their views had to wreck it. Proud...aren't ya?

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Not taking sides here or trying to slam anyone. Congrats on the animals, mexhuntr. Generally speaking, there are some differences hunting high fenced land as opposed to free range (free range meaning it could be fenced but not high fenced). I don't know the size acreage where it would not make a difference, but 1500 acres of high fenced land will not sustain a healthy deer population. Inbreeding, for starters, will eventually take its toll. I'm guessing this would hold true for fairly larger tracts. This is why a lot, if not the majority, of high fenced operations import deer for new bloodlines. Many even have biologists on site. I don't know about other states but this is big business here in Texas. A lot of these operations make the majority of their money breeding and selling. Do the deer behave differently than free range? From what I've gathered they do. I, personally, have never hunted high fenced land but have several friends who have. They all have had the same experiences. Guide takes them to stand, tells them when the deer will be there, and which one they can take or how much another will cost them. If they decide they want to take a more expensive animal, they call in their credit card for approval before the animal can be taken. Now this may or may not be that far off from what alot of us do on free range. We put up feeders and typically will see a lot of the same animals frequenting the feeders and sometimes at the same time of day. Same goes for feed. High fenced usually have superior stock animals they have bought and then protien feed them. Free range animals genes are by mother nature as well as the food they eat and its abundance, other than the corn most will stock in their feeders. Some people I know do supplement protien but not consistantly. This obviously is a touchy subject with alot of people. I don't personally like it because it is creating a tough environment for people who don't have the funds. $1500 for a weekend to take a cull 8 pointer isn't affordable to alot of people. Or $5000 or $10,000 for a trophy? How are we going to teach our children to hunt if we can only afford to hunt one weekend a year? Another thing that bothers me is the deer in Texas, and I assume other states, is the property ( a natural resource) of the people of Texas. They are no different than a river. I've never understood how someone can fence in a natural resource and then profit by selling it back to the people. I'm pretty sure if someone dammed up a river and then sold the water back to the people there would be some trouble. Not to mention that they have taken bloodlines out of the natural order. I'm a firm believer that a land owner can do whatever they wish with their land and have every right to high fence it and operate the land to maximize their revenue. However, I think if they want to breed and sell deer and hunts, they should be made to clear their land of any native species and have it certified as cleared prior to finalizing the high fence, then they may buy animals to stock. I'm sure there are some flaws to this thinking but its all I have right now.:D One other thing I wonder. There seems to be quite a few high fenced tracts going up every day. If that is the direction of hunting, there will be a whole lot of people who will be forced to give up hunting. A lot less to fight PETA. A lot less buying permits that support an already small-budgeted wildlife department. A lot less buying guns, bows, and hunting stuff. Just imagining what could be, I don't see how it can be good. Now, if anyone hunts high fence, good for you. I am NOT slamming you. Its perfectly legal and its just another way to hunt. These are just some of my observations and opinions.

mexhuntr, once again, congrats on the animals and thanks for sharing. I apologize if this jacked your thread. Xtec Shooter is right. Some of these posts should have been done on a separate thread. Keep on having fun and don't let any of this get to you.