Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Have you guys ever heard of someone hunting elephants with a bow? If so how would you go about that?

Tom

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Yup, I watched on of the PSE shows last year when they went after an elephant. Basically the hunter shot the elephant and then the guides backed him up with some heavy weaponry. ;)

I don't know the specs on the bow but I'd imagine it was probably a heavy KE setup and a good cut on contact broadhead.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Yes there have a been few people that have taken elephant and other large african dangerous game with bow. I couldn't name them off the top of my head though. I know who they are, just can't think of the names.

I think we have someone that visits this site that has?

High poundage bow and heavy arrows, like custom ones is what I got out of it.

You could probably google it and find an answer.

Paul

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I have read a few articles on it as well, most attempts are not very successfull.

Geesh, it would be like shooting a deer w/ a bic shaver taped onto a soda straw.

Not my idea of a good thing to try.

R
Hank

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Sure, people have been hunting elephants with bows and arrows since they were invented thousands of years ago.

With a bow of proper poundage (100+ pounds), an incredibly heavy arrow (1000+ grains), a very sharp and rugged fixed two blade broadhead (German Kinetics), and nerves of steel one could successfully harvest anything on this planet with a bow and arrow.

http://www.african-hunter.com/single_arrow_elephant.htm

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I read something the other day about aguy shooting a 900 grain arrow out of a 88lb compound at a water buffalo. I'm assuming that the elephant would deserve some sort of the same setup.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I watched a hunting show where the guy had a setup just like the one mentioned above. The elephant needed to be put down by the guides with high caliber rifles. I've read the same about a few other bow/elephant hunts that all ended the same way.
In my opinion ,if you care at all about making a clean ethical kill onthe animal your hunting , then the bow should stay home when hunting elephant. Should be illegal period!

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Interesting topic. Lots of folks have gotten killed trying to imitate W.D.M. Bell also. He probably shot as many elephant as anyone ever has except one other guy (brain farted and can't remember his name). Bell shot many of his with a 7mm Mauser or .256 Winchester. But then again he knew elephant anatomy like no one else ever has. Even went so far as to section an elephants skull with a crosscut logging saw to satisfy his curiosity. Walked his porters 15 miles each way to get the saw. Also the only person I know of that ever perfected the rear brain shot. Once again, many died trying. Which leads to the conclusion that what is possible for one man doesn't mean sh*% about what you or I can do. Not trying to be ugly but there is a big difference between probability and possibility.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Definitely possible.

I would think that a real good expandable is just the right head.

;)

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Gary Bogner has a series of videos titled "Passport to Africa". Very well made, informative, and fun to watch. BOWFANATIC, Just out of curiosity, why should hunting elephants be illegal?

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Every animalthat reproduces needs to be hunted in my opinion. It is the only way to control the population. I know we are animals also but I think everyone that hunts can agree unless it is dangerously in risk of extinction the only way toinsure that the species can survive is by taking out the weak or stupid whatever is more fitting in this situation. I think bowhunting is the most ethical form of hunting I have ever seen. But opinions are just that.....................

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Do a little research on the subject first....then pull your foot out of your mouth and kick yourself in the nuts with it.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

How quickly we forget. Why did'nt anyone mention the late great FRED BEAR, he has gotten elephant and many other large and dangerous animals with his bow. Yep, how quickly we forget!

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Before I forget, why in hell would anyone want to shoot an Elephant anyway? To my thinking killing oneshould be illegal and I believe this is the case in most places. The same with Polar Bears. There is just no reason!

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I'll put you in the same book as BOWFANATIC after making comments like that.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Put me in any book you please.;)

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Fred Bear took his elephant in Mozambique, 1964, using a 75 pound recurve. His arrow weight was something like 1200 grains, if I remember correctly. Only took one arrow and no gunshot. The whole account is in his book "Fred Bear's Field Notes".

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

early in/BOWFANATIC, I find it a little upsetting that both of you are quick to make judgements and be so closed minded in regards to something so important. I bet if someone were to make a post stating that deer hunting should be illegal, both of you would be quick to post a response stating why it should be allowed. I have done extensive research on the subject of hunting African species, mainly for various projects in college. I don't want to post a "book" here, so I'll keep it simple. Africa has a Game Dept. that is so well organized that any DNR in the U.S. would be well served to model themselves after it. They can account for every $ spent and it always goes back to wildlife and wildlife habitat. The areas where hunting is allowed have far greater populations of game and more healthy populations at that. To answer the question "Why would anyone want to shoot an elephant?" If you have to ask, you don't "get it." I suggest reading "Death in the Long Grass" by Peter Hathaway Capstick. Yes, it would be just for a "trophy", but it is much more than that. By the way, as soon as an elephant hits the ground, the closest village is notified and they come claim the meat. It is often enough to sustain them for a month or more. It all comes down to population density. When a species reaches it's maximum healthy carrying capacity, it must be managed. Hunting is often the best way, due to the fact that it not only keeps the population in check, but it generates revenue as well. Please do some research and educate yourselves. You will find some great reading/videos about some amazing hunts, and discover that someday you may want to go on a adventure to a far off land someday. If you don't that's fine, to each his own, but don't try to take it away from those of us who do. We, as hunters, don't need to fight amongst ourselves that is just what the antis want to see.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Have you ever seen what an over population of elephants can do to a land scape? Elephants can literally destroy anything that they please and do so frequently when their populations get out of ballance with the rest of nature.

Do you know how many native villagers an elephant can and will feed and for how long. An entire village can live for a very long time off the carcas of an elephant.

Do you know that many species of elephants and rhinos were on the brink of extinction before they were legally hunted? It is a direct result of hunting them that there are helathy and huntable populations of them in existance today. With out people hunting them legally and paying the thousands of dollars for the oportunity (which will cost $10,000 - $60,000), and the local governments realizing the economic benefits of people legally hunting them as oposed to poaching, the elephants, rhinos, and other animals would have continually been poached for their ivory and horns until they were extinct.

Maybe you should do some research on the subject before you go condeming those that do hunt elephants, polar bears, rhinos, etc...

Better to keep your mouth shut and let people think you are a fool that to open it and remove all doubt.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Thanks for the positive responses guys. If anyone here knows the positive effects of elephant hunting ask APMauroSr. He's got a ton ofAfrican experience under his belt.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

You know the scent, Tinks 69? The guy who first made it, Tink Nathan. He hunted elephants back awhile, with, yep, you guessed it, an Oneida Screaming Eagle! I believe it was set at 105 pounds with like a 1000+ grain arrow.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Arthur, you beat me to it, but I'll chime in anyways. Hunting is what has kept the elephant alive. If there were no clients willing to spend big $ to come and hunt, the poachers would have eliminated the elephant from the landscape long ago. The tourism $ mean something to to the governments in Africa, so they do their best to control the poaching, ensuring the continued survival of the species. Without the money the governments could give a crap, AND ELEPHANTS WOULD BE EXTINCT. And that would be despite the very best efforts of a very concerned band of professional hunters. Professional hunters who's fatherswere the grass roots founders of one of the very best DNR's the world has ever seen.

I have two full shelves of Africana in my bookcase from the explorations of Foa and Kittenburger through the modern days of Brian Herne. And if you have to ask why hunt the elephant, then no one can really tell you. But you might go to the library and check out a few books. When names like Bell, Sutherland, Hunter,and Taylor mean something to you then we can talk.

BTW, they fellows name I was looking for in my earlier post was James Sutherland. May have edged Bell out a bit in pure numbers, but I do believe Bell was the master.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I have!

Have you smarta$$?

Show me the stats on how many elephant bow kills didn't have to be followed up with a rifle and I'll show you twice as many that did!!!

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I never said "hunting elephants should be illegal". I said bowhunting elephants should be illegal. There's plenty of data out there that suggests the same. Along with some very reputable hunters who have come to the same conclusion by getting their feet wet and actually shooting elephants with a bow.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

And maybe some others should learn to read!!!!

Hunting elephants is necessary. Hunting elephants with bow is not!

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Bowhunting in South Africa


Bowhunting was recognized in 1989 as an officially accepted method of sporthunting in South Africa. Since 1st January 1993 the following regulations applied to bowhunting in South Africa. Since the change to the new provinces in South Africa it has been up to the different nature conservation departments in each province to regulate bowhunting but everyone has accepted these regulations and are applying it. There might be other regulations in different provinces. This must be checked with your outfitter when inquiring or booking a hunt.
Category for different species(All species can be hunted with bow and arrow)
[ol][*]Small species (up to the blesbuck and including the nyala ewe but excluding the nyala bull, warthog, bushpig, and predators larger than the black backed jackal.)[*]Medium species (up to the size of a kudu including the warthog, bushpig, and all predators but excluding the lion, leopard, crocodile, gemsbuck and sable)[*]Larger species (up to the size of the eland including lion, leopard, crocodile, gemsbuck and sable, but excluding the buffalo and giraffe)[*]Large species(Buffalo and giraffe)[*]Super large species(Elephant, white and black rhino and hippo. [/ol]
Bowhunting dangerous gameThis includes lion, leopard, buffalo, hippo, elephant, black and white rhino. All bowhunters must be accompanied by an professional hunter with a prescribed certificate of competency.

[hr]

Minimum Requirements for Bowhunting Equipment
Minimum Kinetic energy (ft/Lb)





Category

ft/lb

1
25

2
40

3
65

4
80


5
105


Minimum arrow mass(grain)





Category

Mass

1
350

2
400

3
450

4
700

5
850
Special directives for arrows and broadheads
[ol][*]Only arrows with broadheads may be used, except in the case of birds and hares where suitable flat points will be acceptable.[*]Arrows may be of wood, glass fiber, carbon fiber or aluminum[*]Arrowheads may not have barbs or moving parts.[*]Arrowheads must have at least two cutting edges [/ol]
Minimum cutting widthCategory 1,2,3 25mm - any broadhead Category 4,5 28 mm - only 2blade broadheads are allowed
[hr]

Nocturnal animalsDuring the hunt for lion and leopard the bowhunter as well as the professional hunter must have a suitable firearm ready.
The following is permitted:
[ol][*]Baiting and hunting from blinds[*]Lighting may be used. [/ol]
[hr]

Aquatic animals and big gameFurther to the minimum arrow mass and kinetic energy requirements the following will also apply for the hunting of hippopotamus, crocodile, buffalo, elephant, and rhinoceros.
[ol][*]These animals may only be hunted in day time.[*]The bowhunter and the professional hunter must have a suitable firearm ready. [/ol]
[hr]

Experience and competency: Bowhunter
The bowhunter wishing to hunt dangerous game must be in possession of a certificate of competence issued by an institute or person approved by the department of nature conservation. If the bowhunter does not posses such an certificate when his outfitter applies for his license he will still be considered if he can provide evidence of his competence and abilities. The professional hunter accompanying the bowhunter must also be in possession of such an certificate of competence issued by an approved institute.
These are only the minimum requirements for anyone to bowhunt in South Africa. Regulations might differ slightly between the different provinces. Make sure to check with your outfitter before booking a hunt to South Africa.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

THE ELEPHANT STORY
Howard Hill has been asked many times to tell the facts on bagging an elephant with a bow and arrow.
Following is a list of questions and answers.
[ol][*]How many elephants did you bag? 3
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How many arrows did it take for all three? 4
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How heavy a bow did you use? 115 lbs.
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Was this a hand drawn bow? Yes
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Did you use an explosive tip or poison on the tip of the arrow? No
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How long an arrow did you use? 41" with a special designed broadhead
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much did the broadhead weigh? 1700 grains
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much penetration did you get? 31.5"
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Where is the best place to hit an elephant? Between the ribs into the heart or lungs
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much did the elephant weigh? 10,000 lbs. [/ol]

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

The most common shot selection todayon elephant (with a gun) is the head/brain shot due to the quickness of a clean kill and reducing the danger of having to track a mature bull. There's not a bow out there that would penetrate the skull enough to achieve this , nor is there a guide that would allow it.
That leaves the bowhunter with the heart/lung shot. A common misconception is that the kill zone (heart/lungs) area on a elephant is larger due to it's size. It is not. The heart also sits further forward than most animals.


Care to guess the size of the bones protecting that area?

Howard Hill was the first to kill an elephant with a bow. Fred Bear also killed an elephant with a bow. An awesomeaccomplishment for sure , especially considering the equipment they used. Today however there are far fewer single shot bow kills that don't have to be followed up with a high caliber rifle by your guide , and in alot of cases more than one shot by the guide.
There was a very interesting article in one of my bowhunting mags a couple years ago. The author had an unbiased opinion on the subject strictly basing his opinion on his own elephant bow hunt and the stories of other bowhunts told to him by his guides. A very interesting read for sure.

Do I have to "take my foot out of my mouth and kick myself in the nuts" for basing my opinion on statistics?:eek:

You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but I'd rather take my butchers word for it!
~~Tommy Boy~~

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

The most common shot taken on elephants today is NOT the head/brain shot. It still remains behind the shoulder, aiming for the heart and lungs. And I'll reiterate what Rich Baker and others here have posted for you, which you tend to ignore. A bow setup with a KE of 105 lbs or more is an effecient means of killing an elephant. And hunting elephants is an effecient means of managing that species' populations.

Listen man, I've spent three months hunting and guiding in South Africa, I've also attended Professional Hunting classes. I'm a biology major at UWS, and have studied effective population management practices in South Africa. If anything, South Africa has got a good idea of what's going on. Look at the recent increase in cheetah, white rhino, black rhino, and elephant populations.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Personally I don't like killing animals that I don't eat. I have no problem with any one who does though. I also don't think that its any great thing to shoot an animal with a bow and then have a barrage of bullets come flying in to "finish it off". If that is what it takes then, in my opinion, why not just use a rifle? And I'd bet that someone killed an elephant with a bow before Howard Hill. Probably some pigmy or some native african that had killed it for food. Just my .02

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

There is no doubt that an elephant can be killed with a bow. But when Chuck Adams writes that after his experience with an archery elephant hunt that he would not do it again and that due to the angle of the elephant's ribs that it makes it difficult to get good penentration who am I to argue. His elephant was finished off with a gun also. Of all the hunters out there he is by far one of the most pro archery. If and I say if half of all bow shot elephants have to be finished off with a gun then it is not an ethical way to hunt them.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

I feel the same way

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

They follow up with a rifle for the safety of the hunter! Even with a perfect shot an elephant can still have enough time to kill the hunter. Theyput a brain shot to instantly put the elephant down to decrease to danger.The shows that I have seen explain the process of elephant hunting.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

You know an interesting bit of information that no one has keyed to here? We talk about having to finish the elephant off with a rifle, but the main reason that is happening is to keep the elephant from killing anyone before it expires. It's not that the beast won't die, the problem is it may kill us or the PH first. No one is talking about the thousands of deer every year that we let lay for hours to bleed out and die after a not so perfect shot. Or even 30 minutes after a perfect shot. How many threads are posted on this forum every year about giving the deer plenty of time, don't push it. Give them time to die. And we are blowing arrows clean through them. An accepted facet of bowhunting is that the arrow kills by blood loss, does that rule change when we go to bigger animals? But then again bambi isn't going to come see how high he can throw you in the air. Silly me, I thought that was just part of the deal when you sign up to hunt critters that can kill you. All of your dangerous game can (and often does) take multiple shots to kill even from heavy rifles in the hands of a competent P.H. Should that be outlawed too?

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Look right above your post. That was my point exactly. What you are saying is what I have heard as well. It is for safety of the hunting party that they shoot the animal not because the bow didn't get the job done. I double lung shot is just as ethical as any other animal as long as you are using the right setup.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Not sure what you are wanting me to look at. Elaborate.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Well you said noone has keyed in on the fact that they shoot the elephants for the safety of the hunter and PH. That was my point. That is what I was keying in on.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

You and I were thinking the same thing. THat is all I was saying.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Okay, gotcha. I was beginning to think you meant there was a difference between a PH having to finish off a bowshot elephant vs a gunshot one. I was going to have to disagree on that.

RE: Elephants w/ a Bow?
 

Also, your post was not up when I started typing mine, I got interrupted in process.