You know the scent, Tinks 69? The guy who first made it, Tink Nathan. He hunted elephants back awhile, with, yep, you guessed it, an Oneida Screaming Eagle! I believe it was set at 105 pounds with like a 1000+ grain arrow.

Arthur, you beat me to it, but I'll chime in anyways. Hunting is what has kept the elephant alive. If there were no clients willing to spend big $ to come and hunt, the poachers would have eliminated the elephant from the landscape long ago. The tourism $ mean something to to the governments in Africa, so they do their best to control the poaching, ensuring the continued survival of the species. Without the money the governments could give a crap, AND ELEPHANTS WOULD BE EXTINCT. And that would be despite the very best efforts of a very concerned band of professional hunters. Professional hunters who's fatherswere the grass roots founders of one of the very best DNR's the world has ever seen.

I have two full shelves of Africana in my bookcase from the explorations of Foa and Kittenburger through the modern days of Brian Herne. And if you have to ask why hunt the elephant, then no one can really tell you. But you might go to the library and check out a few books. When names like Bell, Sutherland, Hunter,and Taylor mean something to you then we can talk.

BTW, they fellows name I was looking for in my earlier post was James Sutherland. May have edged Bell out a bit in pure numbers, but I do believe Bell was the master.

I have!

Have you smarta$$?

Show me the stats on how many elephant bow kills didn't have to be followed up with a rifle and I'll show you twice as many that did!!!

I never said "hunting elephants should be illegal". I said bowhunting elephants should be illegal. There's plenty of data out there that suggests the same. Along with some very reputable hunters who have come to the same conclusion by getting their feet wet and actually shooting elephants with a bow.

And maybe some others should learn to read!!!!

Hunting elephants is necessary. Hunting elephants with bow is not!

Bowhunting in South Africa


Bowhunting was recognized in 1989 as an officially accepted method of sporthunting in South Africa. Since 1st January 1993 the following regulations applied to bowhunting in South Africa. Since the change to the new provinces in South Africa it has been up to the different nature conservation departments in each province to regulate bowhunting but everyone has accepted these regulations and are applying it. There might be other regulations in different provinces. This must be checked with your outfitter when inquiring or booking a hunt.
Category for different species(All species can be hunted with bow and arrow)
[ol][*]Small species (up to the blesbuck and including the nyala ewe but excluding the nyala bull, warthog, bushpig, and predators larger than the black backed jackal.)[*]Medium species (up to the size of a kudu including the warthog, bushpig, and all predators but excluding the lion, leopard, crocodile, gemsbuck and sable)[*]Larger species (up to the size of the eland including lion, leopard, crocodile, gemsbuck and sable, but excluding the buffalo and giraffe)[*]Large species(Buffalo and giraffe)[*]Super large species(Elephant, white and black rhino and hippo. [/ol]
Bowhunting dangerous gameThis includes lion, leopard, buffalo, hippo, elephant, black and white rhino. All bowhunters must be accompanied by an professional hunter with a prescribed certificate of competency.

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Minimum Requirements for Bowhunting Equipment
Minimum Kinetic energy (ft/Lb)





Category

ft/lb

1
25

2
40

3
65

4
80


5
105


Minimum arrow mass(grain)





Category

Mass

1
350

2
400

3
450

4
700

5
850
Special directives for arrows and broadheads
[ol][*]Only arrows with broadheads may be used, except in the case of birds and hares where suitable flat points will be acceptable.[*]Arrows may be of wood, glass fiber, carbon fiber or aluminum[*]Arrowheads may not have barbs or moving parts.[*]Arrowheads must have at least two cutting edges [/ol]
Minimum cutting widthCategory 1,2,3 25mm - any broadhead Category 4,5 28 mm - only 2blade broadheads are allowed
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Nocturnal animalsDuring the hunt for lion and leopard the bowhunter as well as the professional hunter must have a suitable firearm ready.
The following is permitted:
[ol][*]Baiting and hunting from blinds[*]Lighting may be used. [/ol]
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Aquatic animals and big gameFurther to the minimum arrow mass and kinetic energy requirements the following will also apply for the hunting of hippopotamus, crocodile, buffalo, elephant, and rhinoceros.
[ol][*]These animals may only be hunted in day time.[*]The bowhunter and the professional hunter must have a suitable firearm ready. [/ol]
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Experience and competency: Bowhunter
The bowhunter wishing to hunt dangerous game must be in possession of a certificate of competence issued by an institute or person approved by the department of nature conservation. If the bowhunter does not posses such an certificate when his outfitter applies for his license he will still be considered if he can provide evidence of his competence and abilities. The professional hunter accompanying the bowhunter must also be in possession of such an certificate of competence issued by an approved institute.
These are only the minimum requirements for anyone to bowhunt in South Africa. Regulations might differ slightly between the different provinces. Make sure to check with your outfitter before booking a hunt to South Africa.

THE ELEPHANT STORY
Howard Hill has been asked many times to tell the facts on bagging an elephant with a bow and arrow.
Following is a list of questions and answers.
[ol][*]How many elephants did you bag? 3
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How many arrows did it take for all three? 4
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How heavy a bow did you use? 115 lbs.
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Was this a hand drawn bow? Yes
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Did you use an explosive tip or poison on the tip of the arrow? No
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How long an arrow did you use? 41" with a special designed broadhead
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much did the broadhead weigh? 1700 grains
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much penetration did you get? 31.5"
[/align][align=left][/align][*]Where is the best place to hit an elephant? Between the ribs into the heart or lungs
[/align][align=left][/align][*]How much did the elephant weigh? 10,000 lbs. [/ol]

The most common shot selection todayon elephant (with a gun) is the head/brain shot due to the quickness of a clean kill and reducing the danger of having to track a mature bull. There's not a bow out there that would penetrate the skull enough to achieve this , nor is there a guide that would allow it.
That leaves the bowhunter with the heart/lung shot. A common misconception is that the kill zone (heart/lungs) area on a elephant is larger due to it's size. It is not. The heart also sits further forward than most animals.


Care to guess the size of the bones protecting that area?

Howard Hill was the first to kill an elephant with a bow. Fred Bear also killed an elephant with a bow. An awesomeaccomplishment for sure , especially considering the equipment they used. Today however there are far fewer single shot bow kills that don't have to be followed up with a high caliber rifle by your guide , and in alot of cases more than one shot by the guide.
There was a very interesting article in one of my bowhunting mags a couple years ago. The author had an unbiased opinion on the subject strictly basing his opinion on his own elephant bow hunt and the stories of other bowhunts told to him by his guides. A very interesting read for sure.

Do I have to "take my foot out of my mouth and kick myself in the nuts" for basing my opinion on statistics?

You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a bulls ass but I'd rather take my butchers word for it!
~~Tommy Boy~~

The most common shot taken on elephants today is NOT the head/brain shot. It still remains behind the shoulder, aiming for the heart and lungs. And I'll reiterate what Rich Baker and others here have posted for you, which you tend to ignore. A bow setup with a KE of 105 lbs or more is an effecient means of killing an elephant. And hunting elephants is an effecient means of managing that species' populations.

Listen man, I've spent three months hunting and guiding in South Africa, I've also attended Professional Hunting classes. I'm a biology major at UWS, and have studied effective population management practices in South Africa. If anything, South Africa has got a good idea of what's going on. Look at the recent increase in cheetah, white rhino, black rhino, and elephant populations.

Personally I don't like killing animals that I don't eat. I have no problem with any one who does though. I also don't think that its any great thing to shoot an animal with a bow and then have a barrage of bullets come flying in to "finish it off". If that is what it takes then, in my opinion, why not just use a rifle? And I'd bet that someone killed an elephant with a bow before Howard Hill. Probably some pigmy or some native african that had killed it for food. Just my .02