Barile

Yesterday was opening day here in Indiana. My father and I hunt on 40 acres of swamp, corn, and clover. It has healthy deer population but the bucks usually don't get larger than 115-120". Usually we or the neighbors that hunt the adjoining property will shoot them. Over the past 3 years I have started to pass on the smaller bucks and wait for something around 100" or better but my dad would still shoot anything (except fawns) within range. This year I decided to shoot for a true P&Y buck. I begged my dad all summer to let the bucks walk. His philosophy is that if we don't shoot them our neighbors will so we won't get any big bucks anyway. Just before we went out last night I asked him again to let the young bucks walk and just wait for a doe. The evening ended with me only spotting a few young does 100 yds off. As I stopped by my dads stand to get him I see he is gutting a deer. To my horror is was a beautiful 1.5 yr old 7 pt. This deer already had a nice antlers for a young deer. Would have beautiful in 2 years. I was speechless and just kept on walking. I am never going to find a P&Y with him hunting around me.

Here is my question? I know that young bucks are driven off by the dominant does at some point in their life. Could this hopefully be one of those bucks that would have been driven off to find his own land in a few weeks? How old are the bucks when this usually happens?

Edited by - barile on 10/02/2002 11:37:46

Edited by - barile on 10/02/2002 12:30:21

Thundergut

No offense, but I think you seriously need to re evaluate what is more important to you, being respectful that your dad does not need big antlers to call a hunt a success, or you getting your name in the P&Y book. I would give my left leg to get my dad to bowhunt with me, perhaps you should be happy that you are blessed to have your dad as a hunting partner. Nothing is to stop you from finding your own land to hunt.

cardeer

I can understand your concern for killing young buck, BUT what is more important bragging rights to a once and done trophy or a relationship with the one who brought you in to this world

Barile

Thundergut/Cardeer

I am very grateful that I have been able to hunt with my father for the past 17 years. I don't care about getting my name into the book. I just want to have a nice large healthy heard that will produce big bucks. Culling 1.5 yr old 7pts is not going to cut it. If he doesn't care about the antlers then he should be respectful of me and shoot a doe. Where we hunt you could shoot a doe 2 of 5 times hunting. I busted my butt this summer planting 5 acres of clover and I pay the lease. I feel likes it's for nothing when young bucks are taken. Thundergut, if I could find a better place to hunt I would. We actually have about 20 acres 2 miles to the west we can hunt. Unfortunately that area usually only has small bucks.

By the way. Because he is my father I returned 10 minutes later (after I cooled down a little) and drug the deer out.

Edited by - barile on 10/02/2002 12:42:40

ck

Living in Indiana, He has already got his one buck. Now you can hunt the big one if you want. Enjoy the time in the woods together, cause once they get older they won't go anymore. Consider(sp) it a GOOD opening day.

Belle Island

You're Dad sounds like he is from the "old school" where you kill the first buck that shows up. I guess I'm lucky, my Dad has been practicing QDM for as long as I can remember. He will RARELY shoot a buck that is smaller than any of his previous bucks. I'm glad he passed that down to me as well. I just don't find it very satisfying to kill a small buck when I've got big bucks hanging on the wall. To me, passing on bucks that 90% of the hunters I know would kill is much more gratifying than actually killing the deer just to kill it. If I want meat, I shoot does.

Hunt the thickets

wolfen68

Barile, I support you 100% in your frustration yet respect for your father. I think respect is a two-way street however, and I don't think that is the case in your situation. You pay the lease, you plant the plots, you do the work and all you can to improve the health of your surrounding herd soas to ensure quality hunting for quality animals for years and years to come and "old school" pops comes along, ignoring desperate pleas not to but goes ahead and shoots an immature buck that would have been majestic in a year or two. I've known only one situation personally where this was the case and unbelievable the father eventually came around and now takes a doe for meat and holds out for mature bucks to fill his buck tag. Hopefully, eventually the same will happen with your father.

Nevertheless, to answer your real question, from what I've read it is at 1.5 that bucks tend to head out to find new home ranges. However, those home ranges can be 20 miles or 2 miles away depending on a variety of factors such as terrain, population density, buck-doe ratio's etc. It is very possible that this buck could have already established his home range on your lease or that he would have never left or that he would have vanished forever in a few weeks. Hard tellin'. Keep doing what your doing and best of luck to you.

AK

Good for your dad! And good for you...he didn't shoot one of the large racked deer you're after. Bet then you'd REALLY have been ticked, huh? For the life of me, I'll never understand why antlers have become a prominant, often sole focus in hunting. It's as though many now hunt antlers, not deer. And for what? To feel they need to measure up to some arbitrary numbers printed in a document that appears to be a horrid tangle of legaleze? What ever happened to hunting for the love of the game, the serenity of the woods, and the comraderie of friends and family? Getting a deer with a nice rack is nice, but that's not what it's all about.

wolfen68

AK...holding out for and hunting a mature whitetail buck is the ultimate challenge and accomplishment in bowhunting. It exemplifies all that is needed to be a successful bowhunter...patience, talent, skills, knowledge, patience again, discipline, hard, hard work, and a litte bit of luck. Nobody I know puts their bucks in the actual PY book but only use that cutoff as a goal which to exceed. Some have their goals set even higher. It is not for the godforsaken book, it is for the ultimate challenge. As far as hunting for the serentiy of the woods, the comraderie of friends, and the love of the game...it's all there...nothing is lost, only gained. Perhaps you should try it.

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