RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Thanks Tim for the legal info. And your correct in that NY Bowhunters has been a major negating factor (even our NYS Conservation Council and NYSDEC supports the legalization of crossbows here) in our state getting the crossbow legalized. NY Bowhunters enjoys a vast membership where bowhunters fear what they don't understand.

I would bet that if you took some of these bowhunters to a range with the crossbow and actually shot one of them many opinions would go right out the door after shooting one of these implements. fallacies such as extreme velocity, trajectory, safety, etc would be disproved in a hurry. I know - I was one of them for many years until I actually purchased one and shot it extensively.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

The guy was just abusing the system
Concerning the texas requirements for a X Bowneeds to be changed. I have a bone disease that is only at this time from my waste down. I still cant draw a regular bow though,I have the arm strenth ,but the strain reflects to my lower body causing pain only morphine can ease.And My bones will splintter and had my hip even dislocate when trying to pull a bow .all bones are connected together.The Texas definition would exempt me from hunting. I cant use climbers,ladders. Sometimes because wheelchairs dont roll over some terrainI crawl tothe edges of fields and etc.which would leave me a non hunter in some states that have no x-bow hunting or States like Texas that falls short on the requirements

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Forgive me for taking part of your comment out of context, Scoobie, but that is a well worn crossbow catch phrase and I think this would be a good time to discuss motivation.;)

It's not fear. It's not even 'selfishness'.... another time-honored crossbow hotword. It's simply that bowhunters believe archery season has always been, and should always be, for BOWS. Curiously enough, the same arguments that are floating around now in the crossbow debate are exactly the same arguments that were floating around 35 years ago during the compound debate. We knew way back then the compound would lead directly to the crossbow.

There is not a whole lot of functional difference between crossbows and one of today's high letoff bows. Whether you lift the crossbow into position and flip off the safety 2-3 minutes before taking the shot or whether you draw the bow and hold for the same 2-3 minutes before taking the shot - either way, you are NOT drawing in the immediate presence of the animal. So that argument is now moot. Does it matter that the mechanical release is integral to the weapon or a seperate, stand alone piece of equipment? No. Also a moot point. A 300 fps crossbow bolt is no more deadly nor does it have greater range than a 300 fps arrow. Another moot point.

There are only two advantages a crossbow has over a high letoff compound... 1) It can be shot from a rest. 2) It can be shot from the prone position.

I am thoroughly disgusted with Pope and Young Club for breaking faith and dropping their maximum letoff rule, not to mention all the state organizations that have followed suit. The PBS anti-crossbow committee is a wonder to behold. They can't come up with any arguments against the crossbow that hold water without also condemning the modern high letoff compound, so they make up stuff. None of these organizations have any credibility left on their anti-crossbow stances.

And that's where I find myself. I cannot oppose crossbows while saying high letoff compounds are acceptable. I may be a lot of things, but I am not a hypocrite. Having said that, I still think bow season should always be for BOWhunters and crossbows limited to the *truly* disabled. HOWEVER, if I were king, I'd have to make changes: Any bow over 65% actual letoff would be defined as a crossbow and be subject to the same exclusion. I would also limit mechanical releases to the disabled.

Actually, just getting rid of the mechanical release would erase 90% of the similarities between compounds and crossbows.

Cardeer, the Texas law would prevent you from hunting in bow season, but that's only the month of October. It'd leave you another 2 months, even 3 months with a little careful planning, of general season to hunt deer with whatever weapon you want.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Arthur,
Well - I can't see the harm in legalizing crossbows in our state during the firearm season for those so opposed to it during bow season. And a crossbow is a bow - not a gun as some state. A crossbow has a string, limbs, sometimes wheels, shoots an arrow and is around 300 fps and has limited range and a curved trajectory. It has no barrel, rifling, firing pin, etc. so that argument that a crossbow is more of a gun than a bow is BS. It shoots an arrow and not a bullet. It has no great knockdown power, muzzle velocity, etc.

Thosewho oppose it here feel that to legalize it during the firearms season is a 'foot in the door' to future legalization during the bow season. Bowhunters here faced a more-serious threat of DEC adding a muzzle loader season during the archery only season - and that in itself is another can of worms I'll not address here. There's another 'primitive season' that allows the new muzzle loaders that deliver high power rifle-like velocities and trajectories vs. the primitive black power firearms it was meant to be.

Modern technology has invaded all facets of hunting today be they archery, muzzle loader, etc.

The crossbow isn't any big deal the way I see it. Those that oppose it are selfish in that they feel EVERYONE needs to bowhunt the WAY THEY CHOOSE TO - be it various degrees of difficulty - or not. They should be more concerned with PETA or the modern trend of hunters today faced with the loss of land to hunt on, etc.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

I don't know how it is in Ohio but in PA that definitley would be abusing the system.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

True. Sad, but true.

But the very fact that they are considering a muzzleloader season concurrent with your archery season should be sending up flares, sounding warning klaxons, waving red flags....If the game commission feels archery equipment has progressed so far that muzzleloaders hold no advantage over it, then you're looking at the beginning of the end of your state's bow season. Most of the guys shooting compounds now - even the ones hollering they want the crossbow - will skip right over crossbows and go directly to muzzleloaders.

Sales of archery gear will fall like a gob of mud on a flat rock. But, on the bright side, you'll find out for sure how many people truly WANT to hunt with a crossbow.

I can tell you a little about that. Crossbows have been legal for hunting in general season in Texas for about 20 years now. In that time, I've only seen two people using crossbows in general season. Myself (suprized?) and one other guy. Not much demand for crossbows when people can choose firearms instead. Come to think of it, you can say the same for compounds. You find out who the real hardcore bowhunters are when you're out in general season. The vast majority of bowhunters I come across in general season are using longbows or recurves.

So, IMO, the biggest danger to bowhunting is not PETA or other anti-groups. It's coming from within, from all the technology. Once bowhunter success rates are equal to gun hunter success rates - and they are getting closer every year - you can kiss bow seasons goodbye.

Well, that's when the traditional guys will begin lobbying for their own special traditional-only bow season... no compounds and no crossbows.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Honestly - I'd hunt with the crossbow any day vs. the shotgun here in the shotgun/handgun only areas. I dislike shotguns greatly and prefer bowhunting no matter what. I don't care if I am 'handicapping' myself to a degree. I like the bow, and enjoy the challenge of getting close to my game and figuring out my plan of attack and strategy more than just going 'boom' and its over.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Scoobedoo, were do you live in New York.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

Oneida - Central NY.

RE: Cross Bow Frustration
 

I know what you mean. I'm the same way. I'd imagine most everyone on this forum feels the same. BUT, for every one of us there are thousands more who could really care less. The vast majority of 'bowhunters' out there wouldn't so much as glance at a bow if they could use firearms instead. Could all of us hardcore bowhunters, put together, keep the entire archery industry going if bow seasons wound up being combined into firearms seasons? I don't see it.