Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I'm starting to get some real consistant groups out to 60 yards, but I'm wondering what kind of penetration I can expect on big game at this range. PSE TyPhoon, 70#, 31" draw, carbons, 100g thunderheads. Anybody got any ideas?

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I wouldn't worry so much about the penetration as I would the animal moving while the arrow is flying, a strong gust of wind, a botched shot, etc, etc, and you hitting it in the rear end or stomach, or neck

Having said that IF you hit a deer right behind the shoulder on a broadside shot you will certainly get enough penetration and may get a pass through. On elk that is another story entirely.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I'm not sure I will take a 60 yard shot, I have to see how well I'm shooting when season arrives. If I am getting consistant groups at 60 yards and the conditions are right, I'll make the shot. Today I wouldn't shoot, but by season I may be comfortable enough to make that shot. Yes, I was actually refering to elk.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I would have to aim at the moon to get a loaping hit at 60 yards

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Seriously, 60 yrd shots are best left for the practice range. Too many varables in a hunting situation.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

You are shooting a relatively fast, modern compound bow at 70 pounds with a 31 inch draw length. That, in and of itself, screams penetration to me. The only variable you left open is your arrow weight. You mentioned "carbons" but not what size/type or their weight for that matter. Assuming an appropriate spine for your setup I would wager your arrow weight with most ICS style carbons to be around 420-450 grains. Assuming an arrow speed of at least 275 fps would yield a KE figure, at the bow, of at least 70 ft. lbs. That is plenty of KE for penetration at moderate ranges. Out at 60 yards, assuming perfect conditions, I would imagine that you would still get good penetration assuming a cut on impact or chisel style point broadhead.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

if your arrow is flying good and you hit it in the lungs consider him yours b/c penetration is all arrow flight

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I think bigbulls hit it right on the money IMO.

A good hunter must be aware of variables he can and cannot control.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I can barely see a deer in the dark woods at 50 yards.I could never imagine taking a 60 yard shot even in a open field.
Its fun just to be able to shoot that far and hit the target though.:D

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

PRACTICE -- and practice only -- is good and even encouraged at 60 yards because it will help your accuracy on the shorter range shots--the shots you should be limiting yourself to. Pentration would most likely be fine, but there's just too many other factors which can influence where your arrow impacts a living animal at that range. Sixty yard shots are strictly for the practice range.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

It all dependson your abilities and judgment. The arrow will penetrate plenty at that distance. It.s 180 feet your arrow would get there in less than 1 SEC. If the deer had it,s head down feeding I doubt it would even hear the release at that distance. Don,t limit yourself because someone says you shouldn,t take a shot over 30 yds.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Take the shot if you know you can make it.
I could shoot over pretty accurately over 50 yards with my old bow. You should have seen the arc of the arrow though becasue the bow was only shooting 170fps.
If you have a new bow you should be able to make that shot.
If i can get my new bow to shoot out to 60 yards i would take the shot. But any 60 yard shot that i would take would have to be on an open field.
I had a huge buck hangin around in the field about 60 yards away last year. Must have been deaf becasue i was followin him for a good 100 yards around the fied. He finally saw me and ran.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

If the conditions were right I would take the shot. But my arrow is 524 gr with a cut on contact head also. I have plenty of ke and momentum to blow right thru the beast if the arrowis placed correctly. A scenario for me wood be a feedinganimal unaware of my presenceand broadside, place the 55 yd pin at the top of the back and its right in there. Never knew what hit em.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I don't think it is a question of being able to hit what your aiming at at 60 yards it's a question of the animal not moving from the time you release the arrow until the time it gets there.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I have shot many 50 & 60 yard shots at the range but, I have to much love and respect for the animals that I shoot at to take that kind of shot. Anything can happen the instant you release the arrow. Yes, you can hit the animal at that distance,but more than likely wound it. WWW.PBSE.COM/MLO3135127

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Yea in the half second it takes the arrow to get there the ole Buck might get up and do the moon walk right out of the field. If you want trophys on the wall and meat in the freezer you better start letting arrows fly. I,ve made a ton of long shots and they don,t even hear the release like they do at 20 yds. Yes the conditions have to be right, Not windy, and if the beast knows your there don,t try it. These yuppies that won,t shoot a neck or take a long shot crack me up.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

In the .2 seconds it takes the arrow to reach an animal at 20 yards a whitetail buck can move out of the way quick enough for the arrow to completely miss the deer by many inches.

So don't sit here and tell us that know better that an animal like a deer or elk can not move fast enough in that half second to cause the arrow to strike way way off from where the shooter intended it to impact.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I have and will again if the RIGHT oportunity arrizes again. my last 60 yarder was at 62 yards paced from the base of the tree i was in. deer was feeding on acorns under a large oak. i was using my old browning summit2 with 31 in afc game getters and a 100 grain 3 blade muzzy. the deer never heard anything, just leaped and fell over.arrow hit its marke perfectly and on the exit caught its spine at the neck it was all over. 60 yards yes i practice it and will hunt at that range but only if all is right at the time of shot. deer calm, nothing between us, no wind broadside or a bit quartering away yup yup one arrow one kill.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

First off, it is a little ridiculas to establish a set distance at which one should shoot. I know guys who are more effective at 50 yards than others are at 20. Each individual hunter has to establish their own personal effective shooting range. Secondly, an elk can move at twenty yards just as it can at 60 and effect shot placement either way. A wary deer can jump the string at 20 yards and cause a miss all togather. If I shouldn't shoot at 60 yards because the critter may move, then I shouldn't shoot at any range because the critter could move. I have seen elk killed with a rifle at over 700 yards. Long range shooting is a tool than can increase hunter opportunities. I did not come on here to argue about range shooting, I just wanted an opinion on penetration at a specific distance. I sling about 400 arrows a night and will until season starts, thats about 20,000 practice shots before season starts, I think I can determine what is my personal effective shooting range.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

i wasn't going to get into this one, o.k. just a little, as long as u are paper tuned out to 20-30 yards not just 6 yards. and u have 60 k.e. at 1 yard. ab=nd can hit the target at 60 yards, then take the shot! u will need to know how to track, just like the guys who only shoot 20 yards!

just my .02 have fun...and bigbulls i was almost starting to like you?[:'(]

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I can't believe you guys are talking about shooting at a live animal at 60yards with a bow, even in perfect conditions it would be almost impossiable, I owe it to the game I hunt to get closer and if I did my homework I would't need to shoot 60yrd. My opinion , whether your a world class archer or not 60yrds to me is 100% unethical. To many variables to consider. I'm not going to risk wounding the animal.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Decided the conditions was right on that specific day, there was no way to get any closer. I took the58 yard shot. The black wildebeest bull moved and I shot him high on the shoulder. He would have survived the shot but I was unsure at that time. I had to use a gun to finish him off. Since then my hunting sight only has 3 pins out to 40 yards.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I get tired of everyone in these posts saying that shooting distances is totally unethical because its not. you know your own abilities and can decide what distance is too far but dont tell me how far i can shoot. sure some people shouldnt shoot over twenty from what ive seen but i practice and 80 to 100 yards regularly. i limit myself to about 60 or 70 if the situation permits but the practice makes me feel that i can kill that given animal effectivly at the distance that i take the shot.plus for the guys who wont shoot over thirty at a whitetail think of it this way an elks vitals are twice as big making their vitals at 60 the same size as a whitetails at thirty and other than the slight difference in wind ect. its the same shot, so limit yourself and stop telling me what is too far for me.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Your ability only enters into about 60%-70%,the rest being factors thatare beyond your controlin a hunting situation. Your ability is 100% in a target situation.

Here are some numbers to chew on from a previous post:


Here are a few numbers to think about,

I have computed how much a deer can actually move before an arrow gets to it. The numbers are based on a few things. First I used an average speed of an arrow at 280fps. That is a pretty fast average arrow flight. Please note that I used an average speed, because an arrow will decrease in speed after it is shot. Second the numbers are based on a deer at a steady walk of 4 mph and a slower walk of 2 mph. Again, it is assumed that the deer is walking an even pace. Here are the numbers:

20 yards, 4 mph, a deer can move 14.75 inches
20 yards, 2 mph, a deer can move 7.5 inches

30 yards, 4 mph, a deer can move 22.5 inches
30 yards, 2 mph, a deer can move 11.25 inches

Remember, these distances are computed from the time you release and the time the arrow hits the target. It doesn' t include your reaction time. which is generally at least .1 seconds. And foes not take into consideration the arrowo slowing down at all.

Here is the computation if you are interested:

arrow traveling 280fps travels 60ft(20 yards) at .21 seconds (60ft/280fps)
arrow traveling 280fps travels 90ft(30 yards) at .32 seconds (90ft/280fps)

1 mile = 5280 feet
4mph=21120fph=352fpm=5.87fps
2mph=10560fph=176fpm=2.93fps

.21seconds times 5.87fps=1.23 feet per .21 seconds = 14.75 inches per .21 seconds (20 yard shot, deer walking at 4 mph)

.21 seconds times 2.93fps=.62 feet per .21 seconds = 7.5 inches per .21 seconds (20 yard shot, deer walking at 2 mph)

.32 seconds times 5.87fps = 1.878 feet per .32 seconds = 22.5 inches per .32 seconds (30 yard shot, deer walking at 4mph)

.32 seconds times 2.93fps = .9376 feet per .32 seconds = 11.25 inches per .32 seconds (30 yard shot, deer walking at 2 mph)

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I would shoot 60 yards at an animal only under one condition. The animal is already seriously wounded and I've got a chance for a finishing shot before it gets away. That's the only time I think a bowhunting shot that far is ethical.

Frankly, if I felt the need to kill something at distances beyond 30 yards, I'd stick with a rifle.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I say go for it. My buddy shot a elk at 67yds and the guy with him shot the other at 76yds.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Long shots are just excuses for poor hunting ability. Get close...then you don't have to worry. Some of you tossers are amazing!!![:@]

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Thanks for those interesting calculations.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

I believe there are many factors to be considered when taking long shots. The most important being YOUR ability to hit and hit with consistancy the kill zone at those long distances. The others have been listed on earlier posts.

For me it's simple, while I do practice long shots (over 50yds) I don't do it enough to even think about a 60+yd shot on game. I'm too busy trying to hit what I'm aiming for at 40yds and under:D

To answer your question, with your set up and at that distance,youhaveenough energyfor good penetration on a whitetail even if your shot placement is not perfect. As far as elk go, as long as it's agood hit you will have no problems with penetrationthereeither.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

For all of you that like these long shots at live animals that can and do move around unexpectedly try a little test to see how proficient you really are.

Take a car tire and fill the inside with foam and have someone roll it down a gentle hill. Stand at sixty yards and see how many times you can hit it. Now I know that most of you wouldn't take a shot at a moving animal from sixty yards but it will illustrate my point of how much an animal can really move and, more importantly, how much you can miss at that distance.

Try it and then post your results to us.

I love these kinds of statements. My buddy did this and my buddy did that. No offence but who really cares what your "buddy" did. So someones "buddy" makes a 700 yard shot on an elk with a .308 does that mean that the vast majority should even consider attempting that shot? Absolutely not!!!!!!!!!

A 60 yard shot with a bow is equivalent to attempting a 600 yard shot with a 30-06 firing 180 grain bullets. It takes very close to the same ammount of time for the bullet to reach 600 yards as it takes an arrow to reach 60 yards. Both the arrow and bullet have close to the same trajectory and wind drift at those distances.We all strive for 1 moa with a rifle and we all strive for 1 inch group for every ten yards with a bow even though most of us can't achieve that under real world hunting conditions.

So how many here are proficient enough with a rifle to take a 600 yard shot with a 30-06?


Oh yeah, and by the way manboy, I haven't liked you from the get go so you aren't hurting my feelings any if you don't like me.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Hey, if some of you guys can't make a 60 yard shot that's fine, but where do you get off telling me it's unethical? What's unethical is taking a shot you shouldn't, and that includes if you get "buck fever". How many post are in here every fall about wounding one? Sure an elk can move at 60 yards, it can move at twenty as well, so whats your point? I would rather be 20 inches high than 6 inches high. Some of you need to get off your ethically horses, just because you don't feel comfortable with a given shot, doesn't mean I don't. BTW, I got a picture here of Fred Bear with a nice hog, shot a 100 yards with recurve and wood arrows.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Here is another little test you can do. Get a person to stand behind a solid arrow proof structure and attach a rope to a target. Instruct him to snatch the target the instant he hears the bow fire. Do it at 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60 yards. Come back and post your findings.


BTW, I am not calling, nor have I called, anyone here unethical. I am also not saying that it can't be done. Just that the vast majority of hunters shouldn't even think about attempting it.

Simply making a point about hunting live animals instead of shooting stationary targets.


BTW, Fred Bear was in a very elite class of bow hunters that very few will ever achieve. Byron Furgeson is another.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

this is just my opinion dont want to affend anyone but i think anyone taking a shot over 40 yds has no respect for the animal they are hunting, even the best bows on the market dont shoot fast enough theres alot of chance of the animal moving and making a bad shot ending in wounded game that doesnt get recovered....shooting 60 yds at a target range is alot differentthe targetsdont move...

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Let me clear the air here. Obviously, by the nature of my question I have never attempted a 60 yard shot on an animal. I did shoot a whitetail a few years ago in Wisconsin that was walking 45 yards in the woods (double lung). That is my longest shot to date, primarily because I havn't had the need to shoot longer. This year I purchased new equipment after shooting the same bow for 13 years. I can hardly shoot at 30 yards because I am tearing my arrows up by hitting them with other arrows. Right now I am set up at 15, 30, 45, and 60 yards on my pins. I don't really shoot at 15 yards anymore because frankly it's too close. I shoot 50-100 at 30 yards, 50-100 at 45 and the same at 60. The rest are random distances by me sneaking around the yardlike an idiot and stalking my 3d target. As I said earlier, right now I wouldn't take the shot, however, by season start I am confidant that I will be comfortable with a 60 yard shot. My feeling is that some folks invision me slinging arrows wildly through the mountains and any critter within a 100 yards. I don't get buck fever, and I don'tshoot shots when I'm not comfortable with them whether its 10 yards or 60. My concern was with penetration at 60 yards, if I just flung arrows recklessly I wouldn't be on here asking about penetration would I?

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Thats nothing, I visited this small sport shop with archery range in Minnesota here. Never been there before and just seeing what he had to offer. After talking with the owner because I was the only one in the place, he stated what his setup was and he shoots long distance. His set up sounded really weird, I can't remember what it was but I do know he said his shots are about 60 yards everytime on average. His goal this year was to take a deer at 100 yards.

In disbelief I asked why and doesn't that take thejoy of archery hunting away? He said no and that was what he wants to do to see if he could do it.
Ok well I gotta go, out the door I went. As a represenative of this sport and he is preaching this S&*T to people visiting his shop. I couldn't believe it. 60 yards is possible for some but 100?

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

IMHO,When you start shooting at whitetails over 40 yards all the confidence and shooting ability in the world isn't going to keep a deer from ducking or spinning on a shot. A deer on high alert can duck an arrow from a high speed bow atless than 20 yards. But at these shorter distances you can compensate by aiming low with the anticipation the deer may drop into the shot. At longer distances this margin of error increases beyond the point of anticipation. Even a calm deer at 50 yards can react to a shot and totally spin or duck that could result in a poor hit. Im not saying you can't make a good hit at these distances it's just the margin of error is beyond any hunters effective killing ability due to the deers unpredictable nature.
Out west it is a little different...The size of the animals are in most cases much larger which decreases the margin of error making longer shots more effective. This is just my opinion.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Don't be jealous!!! That was real world hunting conditions and they both have 2 nice cows to show for it. Get over it!!!!

All I'm saying is if you feel that you can do it, go for it! Remember one thing, you can't kill anything without shooting at it.

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

Muley69,

400 arrows a night? How long does it take you to shoot that? I mean at 5 arrows / roundthat's 80 rounds. I figure if you're taking any time at all to aim, it probably takes you 1 minute / arrow to shoot (give or take). Then say you're shooting 20 yards, you have to walk and pull your arrows then walk back. On average I'll take a guess at 5 minutes a round to shoot, pull and return. 5 minutes * 80 rounds = 400 minutes / 60 (min /hour) = 6.67 hours of shooting a night. Must be nice to have that kind of time on your hands...

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

personally, even though ive read that ya shouldnt do it, when practicingi shoot a LOT faster than one arrow a minute. although i hear it isnt normal, a lot of times our indoor 300 round nfaa league here in my hometown, which is of course 60 arrows, takes the whole group between 45 minutes and an hour. we shoot pretty quick.

back to the original topic...
i dont see why in the hell somebody would get all worked up about distance. read statements like, anybody who shoots over (pick the yardage) has no respect for the animal, ect.
i dont buy that. by this season i will take a 60 yard shot at an elk. i can make that shot consistantly. yes, a lot can happen at that distance, but WAY more animals jump the string at closer ranges, i guess because they dont perceive something that far away as an immediate danger. between myself, family, and friends we have taken MANY animals over 40 yards. with ample practice those 40 and 50 yard shots are simply not that tough.

in the end, to each his own, and stick to your own limitations, but dont start in on someone because they do something a bit different than you do...

RE: Penetration at 60 yards?
 

HuntnMuleys,

Even at 45 mintes for 60 arrows he'd be taking 5 hours... If he can really afford that much time, I'm jealous as he!!. I can barely eek out 1 hour a couple times a week (mostly its 15-30 minutes) and I don't even have kids yet...