Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I believe so. I think it should be illegal to put up a high fence and sell hunts. Here in Michigan they are popping up all over the place. They restrict, and redirect natural deer movement, ruin surrounding property hunting, lower surrounding property value, and introduce disease into the natural deer population. CWD made a jump from the Wyoming area to Wisconsinthis way now all the states surrounding Wisconsin are in danger of CWD. I have some friends with property close to high fence pens and their deer hunting is not near what it should be. A piece of property not far from my parents house has two neighbors with high fences on 3 of his 4 sides. That property is not worth anything to anyone except one of the two neighbors. What really irritates me is all the "baiting is not ethical" crap when the high fence pens are popping up left and right. The DNR made baiting illegal and then legal again but you can only have so much out. Then they made electronic feeders illegal even though they put out less than what was legally allowed on the ground and I'm not sure if they are legal again or not.

Whatdoes everyone else think about all these high fences going up?

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

They should be illegal.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Should a fence in your back yard be illegal? No...... It's a property rights issue, not a deer hunting issue.... If I want to fence my property in and fill it up with rattle snakes, I should be able to...... Watch out what you ask for, I think more government is not always good.

Now, is it ruining hunting........ Maybe.....

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Should fenced cattle be illegal ? I mean, isn't it the same thing as farming cattle for slaughter ?

I got no problems with people raising deer and killing them. Calling it HUNTING ? Now thats a whole 'nother ballgame.

Its all ties to my belief that hunting progressing to the "easier" and "better" and "bigger horn" all with less practice/effort is bad for hunting.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

That's the exact question that my state is debating right now .
We have a few such places , but they aren't regulated in any way and have gone out of their way to avoid regulation even though the largest one just got shut down for 38 Lacey Act violations . I attended a DNR meeting on the subject just last evening with some friends , and the deer farmers were practically bussing in the shills to vote for their side . Since the shills in question were Amish I'm pretty sure that they didn't drive themselves to the meeting . ;) I also noted that many of the deer farmers I had seen at 2 previous meetings at widely divergent locations were at this one as well . Money just makes some folks crazy .

The hunting community here , as well as the majority(85%) of non-hunters when surveyed said that they considered the practice reprehensible at best . This is in line with every single national survey that I've ever personally seen , and squares with my own informal polling as well . I'm adamantly opposed to "slaughter farms" personally , and have mixed feelings about meat , hide , and pee operations .

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I can't honestly say that they should be "illegal" for many of the reasons already mentioned.
There have always been problems between property owners when one wants to do something that somehow affects his neighber. As long as we can own property, that will probably be an issue.
However, when it comes to hunting, I think a good solution would be to have different record books kept for "high fence" hunts or other means of hunting that restrict the animals free range, possibly even animals on management landand animals taken by "pure" fair chase.
I have no problem with high fence, management property, etc, but I think for the sake of records, they should be differentiated.
Just my thoughts.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Here in Texas wild white tail deer are considered public property. If I put up a high fence around wild deer and keep them away from the public am I steeling? The public doesn't have access to caged wild deer and therefore they are not public property anymore.

I think this is a totally separate situation for people to put up pens and raise deer for slaughter (at butcher or yuppie "hunter"). That is a business and should be delt with differently. Here we have laws to regulate the ranching of deer. I think there should be one addition to the laws. It should say that all bucks must have their antlers removed and none will be allowed to be slaughtered with antlers attached. This would ease the problem with the record books. Very shortly the record books aren't going to mean anything and I am still trying to get one in.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I'm with DC in the thought less government is the best government. I don't agree with shooting animals in a pen and it is something I will never participate in. Data, You hit the nail on the head as far as I'm concerned with this statement,

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

NO. It should not be illegal. Slippery slope guys.

Not something that I'd ever do, but if some dope wants to drop X thousands to do so. Its his money, and he's making someone else profit. I just wish it wasn't lumped in with hunting in general.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Da@# straight.

I don't think a fence should be illegal. Would I support an opp. that did, heck no. That's how they should come and go. IMO If there's no market there will be no fences. There is already enough laws to hang a man.:D

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

G-1 data-I don`t think anyone could have sead it any better

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

That's what I was gonna say. I personally think raising deer, putting them in a pen or ranch, and then shooting them, only to hang them above the fireplace and brag about your deerkill, is pathetic. But that's just my opinion. Everybody has that. If the deer are confined by high-fences, it's just not fair-chase. And no fair-chase = no real-hunting, in my book.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

So those of you who think that high fences should not be illegal wouldn't be very upset if you spent $2000-$5000 per acre on a beutiful piece of hunting property only to have the neighbor put a high fence up on one, two, or three sides of you dropping your property value and ruining your hunting, for which you purchased the property? That wouldn't bother some of you? What if your neighbor wanted your piece of property so he high fences 2 or three sides of you so that you have to sell it to him and buy a piece some place else? I know someone this happend to.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I know I would be extremely upset if I was out in the woods hunting and stumbled upon a 15' high fence somewhere. That just ain't right in my book!!! [:'(]

Butch A.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Watch the hunting shows on tv,most of them are fenced or canned hunting.They make it look like thats the way to hunt!!All I can say is good for them,BUT NOT FOR ME !!!!!

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Yes and so should outfitters

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

As much as People might hate them. This is suppose to be a free country with a free enterprise system. Untill the people that are against it can get a law passed against it we must honor the bill of rights and the freedoms it stands for. I would not have any pleasure in a 1000 acre fence. But you do realize in Texas there are places with 500,000 fenced acres. Some Deer never see the fence.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Like I said there are already enough laws to hang a man. Around here you need a permit to put up a fence and a speical permit to have one higher than 6'. This permit is only avalible if you can prove that it would be a hard ship if you couldn't have it. Best to check with the local zoning laws. There are probably laws to protect the land owner. Stiil sucks.

I knew a guy once that had a piece of property that was going to be taken by the state to put in a bypass. I asked him how he felt. He said he didn't care one way or the other. They wern't taking it all and he was going to put up a gas station on the remainder. Had to admire the guy for that.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Should high fences be illegal?

In Texas, No. In the rest of the country, probably yes.

You can not relate high fences in Texas to high fences in other states. They are two different creatures.

I've hunted on several high fenced ranches, I own a high fence ranch, and I have lots of friends that own high fenced ranches to. High fences down here are as common to us hunters as an 8pt buck. High fences started popping up down here over 45 years ago, so its not a new thing. When your hunting a multithousand acre ranch, it really dosent matter if the property is surrouded by a 3 ft. barbwire fence or the great wall of China.

This is really getting to be an old issue to debate over the internet. Almost everybody who is againts high fences are guys who really dont know anything about them and only go with there emotions and try to push there beliefs on others, much like anti-hunters. When it comes to the high fence issue opinions very greatly. From what I can tell, it depends on what side of the fence you are on. If you have a high fence orget to hunt a high fence, by either owning one or having the money to hunt one then you dont mind the high fence at all.In Texasguys who dont have the money or get the chance to hunt on a high fenced ranch really seem to have a problem with the whole idea. Wonder why?

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Its not for me but I refuse to tell some other its not for them . To each there own.


[/align]

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I have seen this debate on internet sites and there is always a ugly dividing line ....

I agree with Txhighrack, things like high fences have been around for a long long time, sometimes there are different reasons for high fences to be put up, Here's one reason, you take someone like me that works my but off on improving the deer herd and I have 1000 or more acres and I have a bad neigbor that knows what I'm doing and starts to bring in 30-40 hunters a year and starts to profit off of all my hard work, guess what he is about to get!!!! Fenced out!! Sometimes its about bad hunters, sometimes its about herd management, its the property owners choice.

Now for what I think is right, I dont have a probelm with high fences what I have a probelm with is SMALL ranchs putting up high fences, I personally think there should be a limit on the acreage before you can put up a high fence. I personally hunt on a high fenced ranch a couple times a year that consists of 14,250 acres and was fenced in 1982. Are the deer easier to hunt, NOPE!!!and anybody that thinks they would be is misinformed. And the owners work there butt's off improvong the herd and manageing the land and cattle...

Heres a old saying from the ranch manager of the Famous Briscoe-Catarina ranch, " I did'nt put up high fences to keep the deer in, I put them up the keep the bad neigbors out"...

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

That is their right to do it . and they do it in Texas all the time and have some of the finest hunting in the world.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Dang exspensive dirt!!! 2000-5000 per acre let me guess , your not going to buy enough to hunt on for that price per acre....

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Misread the response.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Quote:

---

Its not for me but I refuse to tell some other its not for them . To each there own.

---

My thoughts exactly!

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I normally go with that too ........... however, I believe few non-hunters agree with the concept of raising deer in a pen and then allowing people to pay high prices to shoot them for their horns.

Thats not Hunting .......... and in my opinion it will destroy what Hunting is within 2-3 decades. Its already hugely popular with folks who got a lot of money, want big antlers on their walls and don't want to put any work into it.[:o]

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

those closed in hunts are for the people that go out spend over 1000 dollars on equipment. no nothing about hunting put others in danger shoot at animals to far away wound them but dont go look for it. and get mad if they dont get something and quit hunting. or there the onese that spend all the money no nothing go in smelling like " spring air dried" detergent and bag one of the biggest bucks you and i have ever seen. then say they are the best hunter in the world. i personally beleive it's bull crap. i also feel the same way about baiting its bull also. i will never buy tinks or anything like that.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

i shoot stuff:

I hunt high fenced ranches and I'm sorry, but I dont fit either one of your definitions nor do any of my buddies or clients that I know who also hunt high fenced properties. Your post is full of nonsense.......

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

We don't have many high fenced areas here in Missouri but I've been hunting in Texas and hunting behind a fence is not a big deal. Just like Cardeer stated, when hunting multi thousand acre ranches, most deer never see a fence.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

(1)High fenced kills should not be allowed in any record books except for perhaps a high fenced record book.

By bad neighbors are you referring to trespassers or to neighbors that are enjoying killing the "public's" deer on their adjacent property, that perhaps you have been feeding? I have a differing opinon.......I believe it is to keep the deer in.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

This activity should be illegal. That's not hunting!

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Fencing out bad neigbors: I was referring to trespassers and BAD neigbors..... when I spend the time to invest in the Public deer herd and I start to vastly improve it and My neigbor decides to ABUSE his public hunting privliges by starting a business of killing the Public deer to the tune of 30-40 hunters on the property when the local deer herd cannot substane that kind of harvest quota, other bad neigbors..... Most of the time down here hunters will start a management plan to grow big older bucks and pass on anything thats to young or not in the management plan that has been established, most of the hunters on ajacent proprerty's will do the same to help improve the herd also, THEN YOU HAVE THE BAD NEIGBOR, who dosent want to help and starts to reap the benifit of everybody else's hard work.....start the harvest good buck's, brings his buddy's and family over they kill good animals before you now it they harvest a entire age class of animals and throw the balance all out of wack, HE NEEDS TO GET FENCED OUT of the equation...

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Dude you are so off based you are not even on the planet!!

"1000 dollars on equipment" dang you just eliminated of a 95 percent of the prople on this site...... 500-700 bow, 100 sight, 100 arrow rest, 50 release,100 in arrows just to start, 50 stablizer, 30 bucks for broadheads, 50 bucks for a cheap bowcase, lets say you want new camo 200, how bout a new tree stand 200 plus...

HOLY SMOKE, IF OUR WIVES DID SOME ADDING THEY WOULD FENCE US IN!!!!

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Really ? I bet you got more than what you think !

No, its not hunting, but that alone should not make it illegal. I'm going to raise some chickens and kill them to eat - and I'm going to use my bow and get some good practice in. Not hunting .......... but legal. Right ? Why can't I do the same with deer ? Or let someone pay me to come do the same ?

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Man,this is a delicate one!
Like a lot of you have said we have enough laws and I also don't believe this practice should be illegal.I see a big difference between the examples of fenced in large tracts in Texas and purposely designed small enclosures where the animals don't stand a chance.While the Texas type experience is not something that I would choose to do,I have a great respect for their management practices.Had I grown up in that environment and with the consideration that there is so little public land I perhaps would have a different take on it.
My biggest fear is public perception of the small enclosure type operations.The guaranteed kill stuff bugs the heck out of me.That is not hunting it is purely killing and any person that participates in that type of thing is putting all of us at risk of losing our hunting freedoms.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

datamax, when you go chicken hunting with your own chickens you better make sure that PETA or the SPCA don't find out about it. You will find that your chicken hunt will cost you big bucks, same as hunting big game in fenced areas. Except your money will be in the form of fines not hunting fees.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

It sounds to me that a fence should not be illegal, but claiming the publics property as your own is another issue. Do we, when we buy our tags, pay just for the public land or are ther critters part of it? If they aren't, then no one should mind if I trap some and use my tag on it when the season roles around. Look at it this way, if a public library was some how found on your property do you think you could fence it in? If a person wants to improve their property for any reason, so be it (the tax man loves it) but to then keep the critters is a form of poaching (just a legal definition and not implying anything about any ones charector) in my book, unless you have a licences to keep captive wild game. As long as fenced outfits cator to people in possitions of power they should be fine, if not, I think the knife will be coming from this direction.

Unless you have balls of steel



you might want to invest in some iron underwear before the day comes.
:D

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Doesn't sound like hunting to me.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

This is the first thing that came to mind for me. I believe it is reallystealing from people if one fences of animals that are supposed to belong to the state. I also believe it should be illegal for people to sell deer that belong to the people of our state. This trend is really restricting hunting from the common man. It’s all turned into money making. It is getting harder for the average income guy to have a place to hunt. People are charging more and more to hunt on their property. I have a friend that lost a 90 member 12,0000 acre hunting club that his family had been in for 30 years. The paper company put the club up for bidding and they got way outbid. I think soon it will be that only the wealthy will be able to hunt. Look at the high fence ranches.. These guys go in and pay 5-7K for a trophy deer. That deer is supposed to be the property of the state. The state made laws to protect them. The state stocked them in many places. IMO this IS stealing public property. You pay for these deer when you purchase a hunting license. I equate this with going to a public park and stealing a picnic table then selling it.

It should not be legal. It’s the same idea as someone thinking they do not have to buy a hunting license because they are hunting on their land. Those deer are not theirs they are the property of the people of Texas. If it were not for the states laws and protection(that is funded by tax dollars) deer would be non-existent.

While I am on my soap box. IMO it is not hunting when someone goes to one of these big ranches and sits in a big shooting house, waits for the feeder to go off and picks out one of the 10 deer that run out to eat. I just can’t see that as being rewarding to me. I get much satisfaction by going out finding a spot, getting to know the environment and learning how to get close enough to kill a free ranging animal. That is hunting. Going to a stand you have never seen in your life sitting in a big shooting house drinking coffee is just killing.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Legally the deer belong to the "people of the state", thats the way it was worded long ago to keep everybody happy. But ethically and if you use alittle common sense you will see that the wildlife dosent "really" belong to the people, nor should it. The people of the state do not want anything to do with the wildlife except when it comes time to benefit from it. The landowners, especially in Texas, are the sole providers for the wildlife. They feed it, they water it, they protect it, and they should reap the benefits from it. When I drive around one of my ranches and I see deer running around, those deer are mine byall practical sense. To think those deer also belong to some gang memeber in downtown Houston, or some soccer mom in Austin just because those people happen to live in the same state is nonsense. One day the state of Texas will make whitetails private property and the deer will belong to whom evers land it is standing on at the time in question. Then we will all be happy.........