RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Yeap your right its not right to fence acreages that small and it would not be hunting, but thats a property rights issue....


100 acres???? curious how many people hunt on a 100 acres, gun or bow??

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Gundigest:

I can understand where you are coming from. But its not like breeding cattle. All your doing is allowing whitetails to reach a mature age and pretty much do what they would if humans werent around (i.e little hunting pressure). The guys that your referring to in your above post are guys who have the land,money, and time to take QDM to the next level. Which is a level that most hunters would love to be at, but cant. And I believe the "cant" is one of the reasons why there is so much resentment and lack of understanding towards high fences.

I do believe that there is a line that takes managing deer to far, and turns it into a livestock kind of deal. But this comes more from the guys who breed bucks, and draw semen, and try to produce a 300" rack. Most high fenced hunting, atleast in Texas, is not like this at all. I have never hunted on a ranch that has imported foriegn genetics. All of the land that I own and hunt on, have the exact same deer that have always been on the ranch. All we have simply done is erect a high fence, plant year around food plots, and try to let all bucks reach a mature age.

No, thats called good management and the ranch owner and the manager should pat themselves on the back. You know good and well that if you where sitting on a public piece of land and could have an evening hunt like that, then you would see absoluty nothing wrong with it and think you where in heaven, right? Of course you would. So what does it matter if it happens on private land? Why is it ok for public but not private? I think I know why. And another thing, I have been on many, many ranches that did NOT have a high fence yet you would experience the same thing. There are tons of ranches in south Texas that are NOT high fencd yet they produce multiple bucks each and every year that score between 170-200"+ and this is on a consistant basis.

I think this is another major misconception. In Texas you would be hard pressed to find very many high fenced ranches that are that small. I personally have never hunted on a piece of property that was less then 300 acres and this goes for places that do not have a high fence. The smallest high fenced property that I have ever hunted on was 2,200 acres, the largest was 41,000 acres and was completly enclosed by a 7 ft perimeter fence. The largest high fenced ranch that I know of in Texas is 70,000+ acres and also has a 7ft perimeter fence. Most high fenced ranches in south Texas are in the 3,000-10,000 acre ranch with many being much bigger.

That goes for EVERYTHING in life except for food, water, and shelter. Nobody really needs anything to survive except for the bear essentials. That quote you made could be applied to millions of things. I mean only one person really benifites from a $50,000 car and thats the person who owns it. The guy writing the check would bejust fine if he didnt buy it.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

I raise deer. Im also a taxidermist. Ive raised bucks that would break some of your's state records. I can honestly say Ive seen people just like all of you at one time or another. Many of you are just like my own hunting buddies. I do not claim to know you personally, or your feelings, but I sure can generalize here. Im happy to see cooler heads prevail, and intelligent responses on this, for the most part.I watched this thread develop before I responded. Some of your attempts to bad mouth this type of hunting borders on pathetic. For what its worth, I will say that some of the outfits that do this hunting have, in the past, been just as pathetic. A few of you sound just like the local guy that gets kicked off private property while hunting, "Well, we always USED to hunt this!" They own zero ground, but hunt everybody elses. Hey, times have changed. The farmer that owned all the acreage died, and the family sold out. Maybe YOU bought some of that land to build YOUR house. The house that never was there, that makes the local deer movements different now. And now MY fence is illegal to YOU??? Should housing developments be illegal too? Just because that guy or guys could buy it, and then develop it? NO difference. You buy it, and keep it for hunting, or someone else will. Doesnt matter if its for high fence hunts, or whatever. Its still gone, and not yours to say. It sucks, but thats the way it is.

As far as what we brag about as hunters, lets face it, theres way too many guys that stumble into a road kill they finish off, or a buck they shoot after someone else shot it, trespassers, night hunters, you name it, that still brag. Yep, their rendition of fairchase. So, lets back up a bit and reason...

If you CHOOSE not to hunt this way, Im with you. I understand what drives guys to hunt. Everyone has their own reasons. To call oneform of hunting or anotherillegal just because you dont care for it is assinine. It smells of envy and jealousy way more then logic. Ill give you a scenario, I hope you guys will be HONEST to me, or at least, yourselves...

You try to buy up as much land as you can for hunting. Perhaps you lease some. Remember when you all thought leasing should be illegal too? Anyway, now you plant food plots. Instruct farmers to leave crops standing. Then you practice QDM. You guys spend more time patrolling your ground then hunting. So, what does almost all of you wish from there? Ill tell you..."Boy, if I could only keep those deer IN, and those trespassers/hunters/others OUT!" Well guess what, thats just what theyre doing!

Want another scenario? Its going to get ugly, but stay honest with me. EVERY high fence operation I know, EVERY one of them, has neighbors who hunt the perimeter. These fences arent changing your (your?) deer's habits, theyre enhancing them! All the locals see that good wild bucks are using fence as corridors, funnels, structure, and the does in them as attractance, and they hunt right outside our fence.

Heres more. Are you ready to give up the stocked pheasant hunts you and your dogs enjoy? Forget about taking the kids out to the stocked bass ponds. No more fly fishing those blue ribbon (stocked) streams for trout, either. Hey, fair is fair, boys! While youre at it, all you purist bowhunters that buy the hunting magazines? Where do you think all those deer pictures come from? See the newest one, with that great looking buck with all the drop tines? Guess what, I can tell you where in Indiana hes from. Two different mags feature him on their front cover right now. All your calenders? Ask Bill Kinney, Charlie Alscheimer, Curt Helmick and other great photographers where these deer are.

Yeah, theres always going to be guys who brag up their hunting "prowess" regardless of how legit they are or not. No, high fence hunts are NOT allowed in record books. Personally, I think that record books dont need hunter's names anyway. Lets acknowledge what these animals grew, not who collected them. If one of you fellas brought me to your den, showed me your trophies, Id admire the horns and antlers, not you personally.

As for whats going on in Indiana, thats not accurate. That fellow was charged with Lacy violations, but its clear that thats for wild deer, not captive reared deer. Theres a lot of crap going on with regard to Indiana right now. You might be surprised by the outcome...

Look, if you cant admit that some guys actually love to sit 14 feet up a tree, wait for it to get light, and look out over a fifty yard circle within 100s of acres and wait for a good buck to come at them, only this time they paid for the circumstance that deer WILL be there, fine. They are no less of a hunter. Or a man. Nor are you. But, the lesser man calls this illegal. A real man simply states whether it might be "for him" or not.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Tuffbroadhead:

Where alot of these guys are from, if youown a 100 acres your considered a big shot. Downhere we have single food plots that are bigger then that :)

Thats why some of the guys who say "high fences are wrong, no matter how big the land is" say things that like. Because tothem a 5,000 acre ranch is just a number, they have no idea how big that is and how hard it is to find a deer on that much land. They dont know any better........

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

datamax, that's exactly what I'm saying. You can chop their heads off, or have a processing plant do it for you, but try and shoot one with a bow and watch what the animal rights people do. They will be on you like white on rice. For many years there was a pigeon shoot in a small town called Higgins. When the bird people found out they pissed around until it was no longer profitable to hold the shoot.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

There was a reference made to fenced cattle they are not the same thing. Deer as all wildlife belong to the citizens of their respective states. I am not agains high fenced areas as a person has the right to do whatever with their property as long as it does not hurt the environment nor illegal.But I do believe that a high fence does keep the animalsfrom traveling from area to area if they chose to do so, Therefore removing them from the citizens of the state. Replacement monies should be payed to the state, High fences no matter how large or small they might be are no diffrent than zoo's.

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Yeah right. Wonder how many people would visit a 10,000+ acre zoo more than once when they didn't get to see an animal?[:o]

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

holepuncher:

I've already addressed my thoughts on this in one of my above post, but I'll state it again. In Texas deer that are on private land, especially on large pieces of private land, are in all practical sense property of that landowner. The 250 year old law that says wildlife "belongs to the people" is out of date. The citizens of the state of Texas and the average hunter do very little when it comes to managing whitetail deer. It is the landowner who feeds, water, protects, and enhances the wildllife. The general public and the average hunter only wants to claim ownership of the wildlife when it comes time to benefit from it.

Personally I think most pieces of public land, no matter the size, are really nothing more then zoo's as well. Except unstead of having deer walking around you have countless hunters running around in orange jump suits shooting at everything with horns. These are two types of "zoos" yet one is ok and the other is not in the hunting world. I dont know about you but I'll take "zoo" #1 any day of the week.

Why in the world should landowners pay the state for deer that are on their land. The landowner high fenced their land because that is their right, the deer just happened to be there, just like the trees, cactus, rocks, and rattlesnakes. Should the landowner be required to pay the state for these things to? You'll probably say no because you dont hunt these things and you dont have a false sense of ownership like you do with the deer, just because some out dated law says you do. And another thing, once the state starts paying farmers, ranchers, homeowners, insurance compaines, and automobile drivers for damages that the "states property" causes then maybe we can start talking about the state charging landowners for the deer on their property.

But most politicans in Texas also own ranches and alot of them are high fenced, so I doubt the "paying the state for the deer" attitude would ever happen in Austin. Its only shared by hunters who dont own land or who dont hunt on high fenced property. Wonder why?

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

Here's what I'm looking at right now, he wants to cry foul at high fences, and how they are not ethical...... 100 acres, thats just plain dangerous to hunt, one errant bullit kills one of your hunting buddies or one of your neigbors, scary secnerio, heck lets drag ethic's into it, 100 acres if your bowhunting, even if its perfectly square and your in the center, a margenal shot on a animal and it will cross onto your neigblors land, then you have to go and get it, you going to take the time to contact the property owner and ask him permission to try and retrieve your animal... you should never put your self in a position where a wounded animal could cross onto ajacent property, or are you just going to hop the fence, no harm no foul right, thats just another reason why people high fence there property.....

RE: Should high fence deer pens be illegal???
 

How is it NOT like breeding cattle ? Or at least raising cattle ? You provide them more food than they would evr get wild, special foods full of the stuff to make them grow huge horns, you cull out certain gentics and improve the bloodlines to strengthen the odds of getting huge racks .......... sounds like animal farming to me, they just aren't as tame as cattle.

Bill Yok - and theres the problem. millions of bucks born and raised in the wild and killed in Arkansas in the past 100 years ........ and you raise deer that'd break the record in Arkansas in how many years ? Talk about really shooting yourself in the foot !

A QDM deer in a fenced enviroment cannot be be equally compared to a buck born and raised in the wilds. Apples to oranged for the very reasons you just posted.

In fact, your whole post turned my stomach. Why you described is NOT deer hunting the way I was born and raised and IF that is where Hunting is heading ? I don't want to be a part of it. If I have to pay big money to hunt, feed deer to make their antlers grow bigger, be in a race/competition to see who can shoot the biggest buck, commercialize Hunting with what is described above etc etc ? No ......... thats not what hunting is to me and at that point ........... its not Hunting anymore, its Killing and Slaughtering animals for their horns, animals born and raised on a farm.

Not at all unlike killing Uncle Tom's hereford bull and bragging about how big he was.

Not fenced deer (varies from state to state of course)

Since CWD many states won't allow the transportation of cervids and the crackdown has begun on game farming. Ask Bill who owns the deer behind his fences

LOL

Do you know how many millions of deer every year is shot on > 100 acre parcels of land ?

I have 5 acres and plan to hunt it well this fall.