Unbelievable ethics
 

I was at a function recently and talking with a friend. He introduced me to a friend, and as usual the talk quickly went to hunting, bowhunting.
I live on the Indiana/Illinois line. I'm in IN, he was from IL.
He told me of a time when he went out hunting with 5 arrows and arrowed 5 does as they passed by.
Some he said were clean pass-throughs, and others he said he saw running off with shafts sticking out.
He then said, if he found more deer than he had tags, he could go purchase more, since you have 48 hours (I think he said) to check them in. I don't know IL laws, so I'm just repeating his words.
Obviously, he didn't expect to find all 5 deer and check them all in.
The worst part of the story was, he told me that he couldn't find any of them.

I was so taken back, and with his friend there too, I couldn't say a word.
I've heard of guys poaching a bunch of deer, but at least they got the deer.
In my mind this is the worst of the worst...to shoot each deer that walks by and then not find any.

Not to brag, but I've never shot a deer that I didn't recover, no matter how long it took me.
Hope I don't eat those words.
But I would never shoot multiple deer at the same time.
How could you not find 5 shot deer? The woods should have looked like a blood bath.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

If I was in the same situation, I'd report this guy after breaking his nose.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

jeese... that's not cool. alot of states don't even allow you to shoot more than one deer. i'm pretty sure Ky is like that. or you have to check one in before you go back out. i'm not entirely sure though. but 5 deer and not find one. i would think that it would be one thing to shoot one and see it go down and before you go to it have another walk by but to just shoot 5 and not find one of them. that's a bit screwed up.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I'm sorry but if this guy is serious he needs to be reported and barred from hunting forever.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Accually KY you can tag out in one day! You have 2 tags and can shoot 2 deer, but you better not be back in the woods after that unless you purchase bonus tags. Regardless, that is not sound judgement. I have shot deer that I have been unable to recover (just one). I felt horrible for not being able to recover it. It made me wait a little longer for more precise shot placement though so I took it as a learning experience. I cannot fathom shooting 5 deer in 1 hunt and not recovering 1 of them though!

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

i dont know what i would say to him or do to him, thats just not right at all. thats the kinda people that give hunters bad names

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Here in Texas the parks & wildlife dept. has a hotline called Operation Game Thief. I would call them in a heartbeat if I ever found out about something like that going on, even if it were months later. Maybe a visit by a warden would have an effect on his methods. IMO he is not a hunter he is a hemmoroid.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

This guy needs to find a new sport to boost his ego. I would have ended up in a real situation with this guy. Just pray that they are far and few between!

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Thats sad. TURN HIM IN[:@]

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I have no problem with him shooting 5 deer in one hunt if it's legal. This fall I plan on shooting 6 in one morning. I, on the other, plan on recovering all six and donating them.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

That's plain scary.

If there is a lesson here...

Maybe its to recall our own ethical committments to the animals, nature, creator, and ourselves.

Or maybe the lesson is in remembering that there are some serious nutcases out there in the field. Criminals, meth freaks, mentally deranged, etc. For that individual to make those kind of choices he must be seriously messed up in other ways besides his ethics. Makes me glad I'm a couple thousand miles away; but there are plenty more of his ilk out there. We must police our own!

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Exactly what he said...that is just sad [:o]

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I am still in AWE!!! That is absolutely unheard of. This guy has a really twisted sense of hunting. What comes around goes around. He's creating some pretty bad charma for himself.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

As a archery education instructor, I second and third this!

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

The first deer should have been found and taken care of before the second arrow even was knocked! Turn his poaching @ss in. He isn't doing any of us a favor by calling himself a hunter.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

wow i would have reported that guy after making him have to pick himself off the ground.[:@][:o]

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Now there is a jerk I would like to hunt.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I think the guy was more of a storyteller than a hunter. How could you shoot 5 deer, some being complete pass throughs and not find even 1? I used to work with a guy who claimed he shot deer all the time with his bow but couldn't find them. This only happened when he hunted by himself but when someone else hunted with him he never got a shot off.....hmmmmmm. Turns out he was lying through his teeth. He never shot a deer in his life. He just needed to tell lies to boost his ego when he was around his hunting buddies. Think about it guys, what is there to brag about when you have that many chances and come up empty. I think the guy is lying but either way he's a loser and bad for the sport.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Yea, it's bad news, if it's true, which I doubt. The not recovering any is the hardest part to believe. Hitting him may make people feel better, but could give this guy, and it sounds like he would, a reason to make it cost you, and speaking of costing you. My brother turned a guy in. Felt good about it untill it was over. The guy got of easy, the Court and DNR made money and he was out a day's wage because of spending a day in court.

I think you were set up, or being set up.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I have actually bowhunted places in New Jersey where you could pull off shooting 5 deer in one sat stand, so he might not be lying about that part. The overpopulation is so bad due to loss of habitat that they're dying in swimming pools after shots. Now that's sad, but back to this guy.....I agree with the karma thing............"THE JUNGLE HAS IT'S OWN JUSTICE"

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

What kind of bow was he shooting ?? :eek:

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I don't have an issue with shooting multiple deeer in the same hunt if it is legal. Some pass through some not dosn't much matter either as long as the arrow found it's mark. But to tell such a story and finnish with a bunch of unrecovered animals, I think the guy was talking a load of bs or he is an absolute slob that should be banned from the woods and strung up by his short curlies.
I didn't meet the guy so I shouldn't judge but the fact he went on to say he'd shoot more deer then he had tags for and would then go buy them after the fact, makes me believe he's a poaching slob.
If this guy is what he claims to be he should crawl under a rock and never open his mouth again. I have no patients or tolerance for people who lack ethics and common regard for the law.
In time all things come full circle and if he is what he claims to be, he will get his.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

That type of behavior would definitely be questionable in my neck of the woods. Not making a reasonable attempt to find shot game before shooting another. [:o]

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I have shot three deer in one morning. It was my last morning to hunt and I had four tags. Needed meat so I shot two does and a buck. In my state that is legal. The difference is that before I shot the third deer, I could see the other two laying on the ground. I was dressing deer and cutting meat for the next couple of days.

With that said, I would never shoot another deer, if I knew that I had hit one and hadn't recovered it yet. Fortunately, I haven't had that problem.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

i'd call the local wildlife agency
and report him,
let them know who he is and what he's doing,
they will be on the lookout for him,
Have zero tolerance for poachers and morons such as this

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I agree

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I have shot multiple deer from a stand on multiple occaisions before looking for the other one and I will continue to do so. When I have done it I know I made a good shot on the previous animal and I expect to find it after a short bloodtrail. So far that has always been the case. HOWEVER, even if I wouldn't have found one I fail to see how it is unethical as long as it is legal to do so in your state. Let's say I shot a deer and climbed down and tracked it and couldn't find it. So I climbed back up in my tree and started hunting again and then another one came by and I shot it and found it. The only difference was when I chose to go look for it. I am not going to quit hunting for life of for the year if I wound one and I can't find it and I am going to to do absolutely everything that I can to find it either way. I guess I just don't make the same distinction that you guys do and I don't like being called unethical because I don't make that distinction. You guys are entitled to your opinions I just wanted to express mine.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Silentassassin,

Not to nit-pick, but there would be a problem if you got down, couldnt find the animal and then got back up to hunt. Heres the problem; There isnt enough time in a day to do that.

Most my recoveries are short (100yds or less) and dont take more than an hour, but I wouldnt give up after an hour search or even an 8 hour search. If I hit an animal, Im gonna give it at the very least, two solid days of looking. If I cant find it within two days, I make the decision to continue the search or call it off, based upon facts of the trailing job. Are we still finding blood? Have we completed a thorough grid search? etc,.

If its legal, I guess I dont really have a problem with shooting more than one animal at a time. But its more responsible to assure you can find the first deer. If a deer goes down within sight, and you are legally allowed to take another, I would have absolutely NO problem with it. But any other way leaves me lacking some respect for the person doing so.

And as for this [:-]hole that claims to have shot 5 deer and not found any. He is hopefully a stupid liar. If he's not lying, I hope he becomes physically or legally inable to bowhunt. What a prick. You should report him if you can.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

That's great that you do search so dilligently but I don't think most people do. In most cases through early November your deer would be ruined in 24 hours and certainly in 48 hours. Also, you seem to eliminate a lot of variables that you can't possibly take into account. For example what if the deer made it to the river and the blood trail leads right into the water but there is no blood trails coming up the bank on the other side. In other words your deer most likely drown and sank to the bottom or is pushed up under a drift. Are you going to spend the next two days scubba diving?

Luckily for me, I am not out to earn your respect and don't care whther I have it or not so now that is cleared up what if I heard my deer crash but didn't see him fall? Would you have a problem with it then?

Agreed

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

What this guy did is DEFINATELY NOT LEGAL in Illinois!!!

What an A Hole!

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

First of all, Im not trying to degrade you, but you made a comment that seemed silly. Making it seem like a tracking job would take little time and that hunting for another animal was more important. You probably know this to be untrue, but lets not spread that idea to young impressionable posters/readers just to make a point.

Second of all, you're right, I hadnt considered a deep river or scuba diving. Im not a certified diver so I guess that deer is gonna be fish food. hehehe...All kidding aside though, I dont have any deep rivers to contend with around here. Though we did find one of my uncles bow kills in a river. The rack was just barely sticking out of the water. Spoilage is a concern, but I still try to find them as long as I think there is a chance to recover something. Maybe they didnt die right away, and the meat has only laid for a few hours etc. I try my best, thats all Im saying. Two days is usually the bare minimum that I can live with. If I were to look less, I dont think I could look in a mirror. Granted there are exceptions, but as a generel rule...Thats all Im saying. If your (or anyones) general rule is to look for an hour or two, than YES I do have a problem with that.

As for earning my respect, you may not want to, and you certainly dont have to. But it feels a lot better when people respect you in this life, and being a moderator on a hunting forum, I would want to portray hunting and myself in the most positive, friendly light that I could. Apparently this isnt one of your concerns though.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

It certainly does but as you well know this is the internet and there is only so much that a person can learn about another through this media. There are many people here that just come here to aggrivate or irritate or take negative stances etc. so that being said I am not going to spend my time trying to earn the respect of every single person here. I am just not going to do it. I don't live my life trying to please other people and trying to make others like me and to be honest I feel sorry for those that do. I do however try to paint hunting in a positive light as well as this website and I don't think I misrepresented either one by saying that I disagreed with your generalizations that anyone who would shoot two deer before tracking the first one was unethical. Now to get back to the point at hand, do you still think it is unethical if I heard a deer crash but didn't see him crash?

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I think a person could be mistaken and better recover the deer before they shoot another. If the hunter heard it crash, and its certainly dead, than it shouldnt take that person very long to go and recover it before climbing back into the treestand.

Hearing a deer crash, and seeing it laying dead before you are two totally different things. I honestly dont see the need to shoot two deer in one stand sitting, but as I said before, if its legal, and you recover both deer, its fine by me.

If killing two deer hinders a persons chances at recovering either deer, than perhaps they shouldnt be shooting two in one sitting. Its the less ethical thing to do.

Maybe you do show hunting in a positive light, and I understand it must be difficult to please everyone. I dont know you well enought to judge, but this time, I think you under-emphasized the importance of a thorough tracking and recovery job. In my eyes thats wrong, and its one of the main reasons anti-and non-hunters look down on bowhunting. Make every effort to recover each and EVERY animal you shoot and they will have less to hoot and hollar about. But shoot one, track it for a bit, and then attempt to shoot another, and we certainly give them something to hoot and hollar about.

Just remember to make it clear, that the recovery of every animal is more important than how many you shoot or how big.

Have a good one---Matt

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

No we just disagree. I don't personally feel they are mutually exclusive. I think you can shoot two and still do a thorough job of tracking both. If you shot a doe and were sure you made a killing shot and 15 seconds later a 180 class buck runs in, you aren't going to shoot him? Now that may be an easy question for you to answer here but I wonder if it would be as easy while you were in the stand. It's one thing to preach your ethics from the pulpit but do you back them up in the stand. I am just telling you what I have done what I will continue to do. If that doe is dead she is going to be dead when I get there and giving her time only helps my odds. If you think it's unethical then you shouldn't do it because ethics are determined by the individual not by society or other hunters. The anti hunters don't think shooting deer with a bow is ethical at all, no matter how you go about it. But you don't want them deciding your ethics for you, do you? You probably wouldn't appreciate being called unethical by them just like I don't appreciate being called unethical by you because my personal ethics differ from yours. I may have been guilty or not emphasising the importance or tracking but no more guilty than you are for jumping to conclusions and being to quick on the trigger to portray another hunter as unethical. JMO

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Most any hunter would agree that you used a poor example to defend your case of shooting several deer. Simple as that. If I were you, I would have retracted it and come up with a better reason.

Did I jump the gun? No. Did I ever say you were un-ethical? No.

The scenario you depicted, put all the emphasis on shooting another deer, and no concern as to why you couldnt find the first one. Thats un-ethical, in my eyes if not in yours. You never said you did that, so I wasnt calling you unethical, merely the example. That example in most instances would be unethical. Unless as you pointed out the deer fell into a deep river or off a big cliff etc. But what are the chances of that?

As for the antis, feel how-ever you like, but there is no denying that the majority despise hunting because they believe we dont recover animals. Thats the stats they are always throwing around. So if you are going to give an hour tracking job on an animal that could otherwise be recovered, you are lowering our recovery rate, and giving them a better reason to dispose of our sport. I dont want that, none of us should.

As for my ethics, of course you would question them. I cant prove it, but I can assure you that I wouldnt shoot the 180class buck....I would feel like a total a-hole but, hey, thats life. I do what I deem right, not to mention it wouldnt be legal, and I would fear that I may lose one of the animals due to greed. There are plenty of reasons not to shoot him.

I know its easy to sit here and preach, and then go and do something totally different. But thats not what I do. I care about this sport, and I dont like hearing non-sense. What you said about shooting a deer, tracking it and not finding it, and then climbing back in your stand to shoot another one, tells me two things. You most likely didnt give it your all to find that animal, and secondly you place the majority of emphasis on shooting game.

Maybe thats not the case, but from that example it would certainly seem that way. In my opinion there is a very weak, if any, case for shooting two animals in one sitting. Im glad to see that most hunters frown upon that action.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I had the same thing happen to me but it was a guy fishing some water that wasent open yet. It was not that big of a deal but he keeped more fish then he was alowed and acted like it was his rite to be there, and do what he did. I told him if i ever saw his car in the woods agin I would burn it up, he thinks i was jokeing. I am not much for fighting but I was vary close to putting the boots to that guy.

Some people need a shot to the face every now and then.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

I don't need to come up with a reason. It's legal in some of the areas that I hunt and I will continue to practice it if see fit. What my example did an excellent job of pointing out was how quick you are to judge and or label someone without knowing them or the circumstances.

We'll have to agree to disagree here because I think most of them despise hunting because we are shooting animnals and they think that is wrong. I don't think lost animals helps our case in any case but I am not advocating that in any way. You chose to fill in the gaps in the story with negatives rather than positives. Again, you were to quick to jump the gun and try to label someone or a practice as unethical without having the details.

It's nothing personal it's just when people prop themselves up to be so selfrighteous there is usually falls short of the truth but again this is the internet and you can claim to be, say, or do whatever you want and there is only you there to know if you are being truthful as I have been. But again it's easy preach ethics in the forum but it's different to practice them. I hope you do practice what you preach.

Again you are trying to put a negative spin on what I said. I never said that I lost a deer and climbed back into my stand. What I did say is that I have never lost a deer that way but you conveiniently chose to overlook that statement. You are again jumping the gun and filling the gaps with negatives and jumping to incorrect conclusions. If you would like to continue the conversation, I would invite you to do so by email.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

Email sent SA.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

There is nothing wrong with shooting a bunch of deer before you recover the first. I use to do drives way back when and that's what you did if the herd came through. I no longer do drives because I've relised how dangerous they are and I don't gun hunt anymore. I will not hesitate to drop multible deer in one sitting if I so choose. It was legal when I did it and it is now legal to drop as many antlerless deer as you want during bow season. No extra tags required. I have every intention next season on dropping six deer in one morning hunt from my stand this fall.

I want to reiterate that I don't support this guy shooting five and not recovering a single deer. I will recover my deer.

RE: Unbelievable ethics
 

You can shoot as many deer as you have tags for in KY. Unless they changed it this year.