bigcountry

Uh oh a competator.

Rebel Hog

Phil,depends where you are hunting and how far the area will permit you to
shoot.I agree 80 or 90 is plenty........TOO EACH HIS OWN!!

H2OmAn

I can't answer your question but I will say that those who choose to
push the envelope can & will forever. Some of the elite in taking
everything to the limit will say its the small DNA string that separates us from the animals we hunt. I think it all starts when we see a sign that says sale, no reaction, but if we see that sign
and it says huge magnum sales event, we react. Same with ML's
if they says its a "MAGNUM" then yea buddy got to try that magnum charge. And sadly a lot of the new ML's have that attitude
with no regard to recoil or accuracy. Sometimes we just have to take a step back, a deep breath, and ask is this really necessary?
just my take on your statement.....

roundball

This is a good topic...I've used .264's, .30-30's, .30-06's, .35Rems deer hunting since the 60's...I believe in having plenty of power to ensure energy at distance, but never felt I had to use any of the really big boys...the above calibers are all generally about the same size and will take most anything on the NA continent at typical distances...shot placement always being most important.

However, FWIW, I view powder charges for muzzleloaders differently...IMO they can't always simply be discussed on the basis of powder alone, almost as if all projectiles are the same...I believe projectiles & projectile weight play a more major role in the selection of charges in muzzleloaders than simply saying xx-xxgrns of powder is all that's needed, like an across the board statement.

I hunt pretty much exclusively with flintlocks and patched round balls now, and they are a lot lighter than the same caliber muzzleloader conical is, with it's much higher level of sustained energy at distance. So I feel the need to drive PRB's at or near published max loads for deer hunting, to ensure I have the energy at distance if I need it.

On the one hand for example, I shot a 5 pointer this fall while squirrel hunting...had a .45cal flintlock, 128grn ball, and only 40grns Goex FFFg laying across my lap...the buck walked in front of me only 20yds away and I shot him in the heart, dead deer. But on the other hand, I could not have taken that shot at 50-60yds...would have needed much more velocity...and 75-100yds would have required even much more velocity.

But if heavy conicals are used, velocity is less critical and even though a slow conical's trajectory could be like a rainbow, it would still do its job when it got there due to its weight and energy.

Shooting a lot of PRB's at the range to test results, penetration, distance, etc...different calibers with different weight balls...I'm not comfortable with a blanket statement that "xx" grns of powder is all I need...with PRB's I use max power levels for a given ball considering the game I'm hunting and the distances I'll be faced with.

If that's only 50yds then that's one charge, but if I can normally see 125yds, I don't ever want to be holding a moderate load behind a PRB and have a P&Y buck walk by at 125yds...my two cents

bigcountry

Absolutely it is not a question of need. I mean face it the deer are so outgunned with a PRB and 80gr of Goex its not funny. The question of need became silly after we picked up a firearm. After that, it became fun and experimentation.

Briman

I get a good chuckle out of this subject.

Went to the range with a buddy of mine a few weeks ago. I brought a flinter, he brought an Omega.

We talked about muzzleloaders for awhile, I asked him if he ever tried actual blackpowder before- his reply was that he had no interest because the cleanup was too involved, he shoots triple seven. I asked him how he cleaned that up, he replied that he ran hot water down the bore followed by a solvent scrub to get rid of the sabot fouling.

On shooting, all he cared about was velocity. He wanted to put them 3 big 50 gr pellets in every time to get that bullet out to the 100 yard stop as fast as it could. I urged him to try 2 pellets instead of one, but he insisted that it would have been a waste of 2 pellets because it wouldn't give him the maximum velocity he strived for. After about a dozen shots, he was all done because the recoil was giving him a massive case of the flinches. I was shooting my flinter with 80 gr of FFg offhand better than he was shooting from the bench, and I bet I spent less time cleaning when I got home than he did.

bigcountry

I congradulate the guy. He was experimenting Briman. And I love doing that. He may not be doing it your way or mine working up instead of down. But he got out to the range that day and got to shoot some. And it could have turned out differently. He could have had 2MOA groups right off the bat. It rarely happens. But now he knows and maybe learned if he wants to pump that sabot that hard, he might have to look into different sabots or combos.

And the whole flinch thing, thats a different issue he is going to have to work out separately. If a person flinches alot on a 150gr load, I tend to bet they flinch some on a 100gr. You are probably more of a authority on that than me.

sabinajiles

To each his own, but understand that this doesn't appeal to everyone. I have absolutely no desire to own a magnum muzzleloader and shoot 150 yds, no matter how accurately I can do so. This is not the way I prefer to hunt, so it offers nothing to me. I prefer to meet deer in their environment and hone my hunting skills that will allow me to get witin a reasonable range and let me put a well placed roundball into the kill zone, using open sights. I get tremendous personal satisfaction from doing this but get none from taking a 150 yd shot with a rifle equipped with a scope.

IMO, the magnum muzzleloaders were developed from a marketing standpoint, nothing more. Someone, I believe it might have been Knight but I'n not sure, came out with the first magnum muzzleloading rifle so they could sell more of them. They promoted it as an improvement over any other rifle because it could handle 150 grns of powder and because it could, it had to be better. Of course, to stay in the market, everyone else had to follow suit.

bigcountry

Never said it did, did I? I asked why it bothers people so much not if it appealed to people? My girlfriend likes crafts or I call crap. It doesn't appeal to me, but it doesn't bother me so much I got to fill up every forum with 20 posts on it. I just am struggling to understand why it bothers people.

I suggest you take up a nice long bow. Seriously. If you like traditional aspect of muzzleloader, you will love the traditional aspect of long bow. If you like to get up close and personal, let me guarantee you my friend, its hard to hone any better. Any body can kill with a PRB, but not so easy, at least for me with a bow.

Heck I say try everything.

sabinajiles

Well you did imply it, whether you intended to or not, when you said:

It doesn't bother me if someone wants to shoot 150 grns of powder in an inline. It does concern me that some newcomers buy an inline and think that they have to shoot 150 grns just because the rifle is capable of doing so. It concerns me if they continue to use 150 grns when their particular rifle might be more accurate with a lighter load that still offers plenty of energy for cleanly harvesting the game they are after. It concerns me that they might never try anything other than "magnum loads" because they can't get over a "more is better" mindset. It doesn't bother that some inline shooters want to be able to take 150 yd shots at big game but it does bother me if they think that is the only way they can be successful.

I certainly agree with you here. Unfortunately, I had to give up hunting with my longbow because of a shoulder injury. I don't agree that anyone can kill a deer with a PRB. I do agree that anyone can if they have the personal temperament and discipline to learn to do so but I don't believe everyone does and modern inlines, with "magnum loads", saboted bullets and high powered optics, have great appeal to those that don't .