BP guns blowing up?
02-10-2005, 07:11 AM
#41
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bergen Co. NJ
Posts: 129
RE: BP guns blowing up?
Now I am not trying to defend Randy and I agree he pushing hard to get answers from BPI, but I think its up to BPI to answer his question. I believe you can never have enough information when trying to make a decision on purchasing something that has the potential to injure you or some one you love. I appluad Randy for his writings, but I believe it is up to everyone of us to look at all the facts and make your own mind on the issue. Its up to you the gun owner to do your home work and research your purchase and study the proper way to use and handle that purchase so you can feel safe using it and have peace of mind. I personally won't buy a BPI product but not just because of the barrel issue, although it does weigh in as a factor. As I said in my earlier posts I do not like the trigger pulls on their guns, and from what I have read a lot off other people don't like that aspect as well.
I hope to pass on my firearms to my sons when they are old enough and I can teach them the proper way to load and handle them. I don't want to ever have safety be an issue even if there is only a slight chance of failure. Sure every muzzleloader out there has a remote chance of malfunctioning but why risk it on manufacturer who refuses to answer questions, and has a gone bankrupt over past defects. Just my opinion though, as I said ealier your free to make up your own mind on this issue.
I hope to pass on my firearms to my sons when they are old enough and I can teach them the proper way to load and handle them. I don't want to ever have safety be an issue even if there is only a slight chance of failure. Sure every muzzleloader out there has a remote chance of malfunctioning but why risk it on manufacturer who refuses to answer questions, and has a gone bankrupt over past defects. Just my opinion though, as I said ealier your free to make up your own mind on this issue.
I researched each of them before I purchased them. It's part of the fun of this hobby... reading up on an intended purchase, asking guys who already own one, how they like them, and checking message boards for ideas and inputs. Hopefully somebody read this thread before they purchased a used muzzleloader that MAY have been manufactured substandardly and decided to buy one that, at the very least, has a company that stands behind its product.
Jim B.
02-10-2005, 11:42 AM
#42
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location:
Posts: 135
RE: BP guns blowing up?
Just in case any one wants to communicate directly with Randy he is a frequent follower and poster at the following forum. I know quite a few of the poster here post over there also.
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ub...ubbthreads.php
http://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/ub...ubbthreads.php
02-10-2005, 12:29 PM
#43
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Bergen Co. NJ
Posts: 129
02-10-2005, 04:11 PM
#45
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Idaho
Posts: 11,703
RE: BP guns blowing up?
JsmesB67 and others,
Randy has been grinding this axe for several years now, basicaly becuase BPI and Traditions did not respond to him in the manner he liked so he has been on crusade every since. Since that time he has been on his crusade... BPI and Traditions and even early Austin Hallecks use Spanish barrels proofed by the house of Eibar. Follow directions be diligent and they work just fine. Do not follow directions make a mistake - you might have a problem.
He revives this every so often just to stir the mud - all ML's, and any gun can be dangerous.
Randy has been grinding this axe for several years now, basicaly becuase BPI and Traditions did not respond to him in the manner he liked so he has been on crusade every since. Since that time he has been on his crusade... BPI and Traditions and even early Austin Hallecks use Spanish barrels proofed by the house of Eibar. Follow directions be diligent and they work just fine. Do not follow directions make a mistake - you might have a problem.
He revives this every so often just to stir the mud - all ML's, and any gun can be dangerous.
02-10-2005, 04:39 PM
#46
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 714
RE: BP guns blowing up?
I got this sent to me. 90 gr. of Pyrodex RS and a 300 gr. Sabot did this. The shooter lost part of his hand. If you look you can see the proof mark which gives the proofed pressure of almost 10,000 PSI. The load produced 19,000 PSI. This isn't the first time something like this has happened. People are getting hurt.
02-10-2005, 04:54 PM
#47
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Warren County NJ
Posts: 4
RE: BP guns blowing up?
Hey woldhound
Do you have any input about the new traditions Pursuit Pro .50 cal that just come out. I just bought one, and after reading from this site, I am wondering if this model is having problems also. Now I know that most of these accidents are user related, but there is also manufacturer defects out there also. Thanks!
Do you have any input about the new traditions Pursuit Pro .50 cal that just come out. I just bought one, and after reading from this site, I am wondering if this model is having problems also. Now I know that most of these accidents are user related, but there is also manufacturer defects out there also. Thanks!
02-10-2005, 04:59 PM
#48
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 714
RE: BP guns blowing up?
I've heard nothing about the Pursuit. So fall all the blow ups I've heard about are CVA Eclipses, CVA Hunterbolts, Winchester X-150, and now this Traditions Buckhunter Pro. I'm sure there are more where the shooter didn't get hurt and sent the gun back to the company and got a new one. Those you'll seldom hear about.
02-11-2005, 08:00 AM
#49
Typical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 771
RE: BP guns blowing up?
Wolfhound76, what was the shooting history of that barrel?
In other words, whom owned it, how did they care for it and what was the loading history of the barrel? Was it always properly loaded and cared for since placed into service?
I am in no way trying to suggest that defects or premature failures don't or cannot happen. They do. I'm also not trying to defend any manufacturers. I'm not.
There is another thought here that I have no science answer for but I agree with my own speculation.
If, for some reason loading a projectile is very, very difficult and excessive force is required to load, then the over tight fitting projectile can cause dangerous higher pressures when fired from the barrel. I'm not talking about a tight or stubborn projectile that is correct for the barrel dimensions. I'm talking about more loading force than can be accomplished by hand.
Think about it, I've seen folks take out a mallet, stick, board and literally beat on a ramrod to load. Or, ram into a tree or ground out of frustration.
Every time I have always interrupted them and told them that if you have to force load, then something is either not right with the round, your barrel needs to be cleaned or both.
I have always cleaned in-between shots when shooting sabots and every few shots when shooting PRB or conical.
For the folks that have purchased the Traditions Pursuit and other new rifles, I would not panic over this issue. Follow your manuals and properly care for your weapon.
This topic also brings up a very good point about buying used or antique weapons.
Steel and metal does fatigue over time and usage with heat, pressures and corrosive primers and propellants. This is a fact. Frequency of use and maintenance quality can accelerate or prolong wear.
1) If it's used and looks neglected = Pass on it, wall hanger only, or if unsure, have it inspected by the factory or a competent gunsmith prior. I purchase used weapons all the time. But not ones that have the signs of neglect or are simple very worn. Still there is no guarantee with a used weapon. After all, do you want to place your safety with someone else's neglect?
This is not to say that there is anything wrong with investing in a well cared for used weapon. Use common sense and if unsure than have it inspected for a ruling on it's firing condition.
2) Antiques or very old/worn or neglected weapons should never be fired in my view. Unless you are going to re-barrel/build the weapon to restored service quality.
There is no reliable way to document the service history of the weapon, regardless of it's condition. And, shooting places additional wear and devalues the weapon.
I think that safety can never be stressed enough. Many folks get weapons that have never fired one in their lives and have no one to teach them correct handling, loading and care. I don't mind seeing documentation that re-iterates anything regarding safety.
Granted, much of the safety labeling and literature is a direct result of liability lawsuits and litigations. (I was never told, so therefore the manufacturer is responsible for my unsafe action).
My .002
In other words, whom owned it, how did they care for it and what was the loading history of the barrel? Was it always properly loaded and cared for since placed into service?
I am in no way trying to suggest that defects or premature failures don't or cannot happen. They do. I'm also not trying to defend any manufacturers. I'm not.
There is another thought here that I have no science answer for but I agree with my own speculation.
If, for some reason loading a projectile is very, very difficult and excessive force is required to load, then the over tight fitting projectile can cause dangerous higher pressures when fired from the barrel. I'm not talking about a tight or stubborn projectile that is correct for the barrel dimensions. I'm talking about more loading force than can be accomplished by hand.
Think about it, I've seen folks take out a mallet, stick, board and literally beat on a ramrod to load. Or, ram into a tree or ground out of frustration.
Every time I have always interrupted them and told them that if you have to force load, then something is either not right with the round, your barrel needs to be cleaned or both.
I have always cleaned in-between shots when shooting sabots and every few shots when shooting PRB or conical.
For the folks that have purchased the Traditions Pursuit and other new rifles, I would not panic over this issue. Follow your manuals and properly care for your weapon.
This topic also brings up a very good point about buying used or antique weapons.
Steel and metal does fatigue over time and usage with heat, pressures and corrosive primers and propellants. This is a fact. Frequency of use and maintenance quality can accelerate or prolong wear.
1) If it's used and looks neglected = Pass on it, wall hanger only, or if unsure, have it inspected by the factory or a competent gunsmith prior. I purchase used weapons all the time. But not ones that have the signs of neglect or are simple very worn. Still there is no guarantee with a used weapon. After all, do you want to place your safety with someone else's neglect?
This is not to say that there is anything wrong with investing in a well cared for used weapon. Use common sense and if unsure than have it inspected for a ruling on it's firing condition.
2) Antiques or very old/worn or neglected weapons should never be fired in my view. Unless you are going to re-barrel/build the weapon to restored service quality.
There is no reliable way to document the service history of the weapon, regardless of it's condition. And, shooting places additional wear and devalues the weapon.
I think that safety can never be stressed enough. Many folks get weapons that have never fired one in their lives and have no one to teach them correct handling, loading and care. I don't mind seeing documentation that re-iterates anything regarding safety.
Granted, much of the safety labeling and literature is a direct result of liability lawsuits and litigations. (I was never told, so therefore the manufacturer is responsible for my unsafe action).
My .002
02-11-2005, 10:39 AM
#50
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location:
Posts: 714
RE: BP guns blowing up?
ORIGINAL: Tahquamenon
Wolfhound76, what was the shooting history of that barrel?
In other words, whom owned it, how did they care for it and what was the loading history of the barrel? Was it always properly loaded and cared for since placed into service?
Wolfhound76, what was the shooting history of that barrel?
In other words, whom owned it, how did they care for it and what was the loading history of the barrel? Was it always properly loaded and cared for since placed into service?