RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

I put a lot of bullets through muzzleloaders through out the year as well as reg rifles and there are fellows capable of shooting tiny groups time after time but a muzzleloader is a muzzleloader.I have never seen one that would shoot 1/2 or less than a inch day after day,time after time or group after group.Its just the nature of the beast.I have shot lots of groups with different muzzleloaders less than an in @100 yds,some less than an inch @200,and some less than 3 in @300 yds,but on the other hand I have shot lots more groups that were over 1 in,and some way,way over.
What I have found out using the same rifle and load you have a moa shooter one day,the next day the same rifle and load you have a +moa.shooter.
I get lucky and get some good groups sometimes.These 3-shot groups were shot the same day using 2 different rifles.

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

Yucko, I have on a few occasions I have had a2” group at 50 yards 4” is more my norm. At A hundred yards I am still struggling. Ill get one an inch or so off the bull and the next two off by 6 inches or more. Because of this I don’t shoot over 50 yards. I have two inlines and a Pennsylvanian that all do this to me. All the help I have gotten on this thread has brought my shots closer together, thanks again. By the way what is MOA? I think except for some of the super experts on this thread 4” or so is the norm. When I read all the missed shots and poor placements on the Deer hunting thread I wonder if 10” isn’t more the average. Sorry I don’t get up to the BP thread more often off season but I can only spend so much time here and the non-hunting thread is fun off season.

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

I Have A Traditions Pursuit Pro with a scope. I Shot This Target At 125 yard's With A 300 gr Hornady SST And 100 gr of loose triple Se7en

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

Bigcountry and folks,

Herman is on the right track describing this.

To add: In my view, the phenomena of 100yd MOA ML for the average shooter would likely be better quantified in average groups versus a single group from a bench.

I would say that many of the rifles, powders and projectiles available are certainly capable of shooting MOA on a regular basis.

Then comes the variables that can can alter MOA capability: Shooter, primer, fouling, fouling deviation, barrel condition and tolerances, projectiles, cleaning proceedures and methods, powder burn deviations, weather and likely more.
The top shooters are the folks that can manage and control the "variables" the best.

I would consider myself about a 2-ish" average ML shooter. Somtimes better than 2" sometimes much worse with a nasty flier now and then that really screws things up.
[&:]

For example I can and have shot 1" groups and even a couple of times sub 1" groups from both an scoped MK-85 and a Rem 700. This said, I've also shot really terrible groups as much as 3-5" with the exact same everything (or so I thought) thanks to a flier or two or sometimes nothings seems to want to group.

The folks that are honestly and on average, regularly shooting MOA or less are logging a great deal of time at the range and possibly not with typical off the shelf approach that most of us average shooters do. These folks are very meticulous managing to the best of thier ability, all of the possible "variables to MOA".

Bigcountry, with an ML and 2.5 MOA average I'd say you are doing pretty well.

My .002...
;)

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

Ding, ding, ding. Finally a man with experience, integity, and honest with himself and fellow shooting buddies who we all can learn alot from.

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

And another man who is honest with himself with probably alot of experience we can learn from.

Tahqu, that 2.5MOA is with 100's of man hours finding the right combo too with all the different rifles.

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

Thanks BC! I've been at ML shooting for some time but not nearly as much or as frequent as many folks out there.
31 years ago, there was little variability for me. I had a T/C Hawken 50 cal percussion and I shot patched roundball and black powder.
After much practice I felt comfortable shooting iron sights in a hunting situation at 75-100 yards.

No Davey Crockett but I learned to shoot and still can with the old "Hawk".

Exactly right on the time it can take. Those of us that have been shooting ML's for some time have certainly logged in a bunch of time fiddling around with what shoots, works and is the most consistent for our individual preferences and rifles.

In my view the changes with the introduction of more competitive manufacturing, technology, inlines, synthetic powders, projectiles and ignitions is what made things both more refined as well as more difficult.
The vastness and diversity of choice is not always more helpful. It can often just makes things more "cluttered". Especially for the person that is an occassional or seasonal only shooter.

The benefit for the new ML'er today is that many of the rifles, products and combinations are developed to a point of consistency and quality that the new shooter can get on "Target" relatively quickly with some suggested load combinations. Then the investment, practice, refinement begins if someone wishes to hone their skills and capabilities.

The internet has also been instrumental on getting folks on the "Target" much faster and taking some of the guesswork from trial and error.

Take this forum for instance. There are a great many folks that have true real experiences that can offer the new ML'er a wonderful repository of information and learning.

I learn new things all the time.
:)

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

I was going to post some of my 6" groups but didn't think anyone would be interested. [:-] On a good day, when I'm right, when the weather is right, when the planets are properly aligned.......I have sometimes shot the sub-moa stuff.

But I think Ed Mehlig can do it pretty consistently. His groups on this page were shot all on the same day using bullets that I and another fellow cast and sent him. His targets have the half-inch squares. I've got three groups in that conglomeration - the one with the Mose bullets are the first three out of my barrel (I think they were the first three out of any barrel).

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

I am sure people can do it. I watched as the fella from Ohio shot 5 clover leafs to win camp perry a while back. But his gun was like 30lbs.

I just have a hard time believing everybody on this page can. I think these web pages can be a bad thing. I know this young fella that just got into guns. He was reading all the posts on the gun page. And his new 270win got 1.5-1.75" groups. He was all upset, and ready to sell it and take to a gunsmith to work on. I explained a little about BS, a little about alot of experience, and a little on trying different ammo explained, I thought he was doing outstanding for his first rifle. The people that drive me crazy is like my best buddy. He shoots an honest 3.5MOA every time I see him on average. But just cause he has gotten 2 groups clover leafing, every group he doesn't see that, he said he pulled, or that was him.

There is something magical about 1MOA that has to be achieved for some reason. All seasoned people understand that its not needed by a long shot from a ML.

RE: anyone on the ML page that gets over MOA?
 

Striper Phil.......................

To answer your question, MOA means "Minute of Angle". This is a geometric value for figuring accuracy. Here's a link with a decent explanation of how it's figured:
MOA

Unless you're the scientific type that understands all that, suffice it to say that MOA accuracy at 100yds would be a group that measures no more than 1.047" .