American Pioneer Powder?
 

I live in the bootheel of Mo.cant find a dealer around this area
can it be shipped to you,what about haz mat,etc.?[8D]

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

In MO all the hillbillys know how to make powder.It cost a lot for HAX shiping.I am sure it would be better to talk to a gun shop and they may order it though them. mite be cheeper?

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Haz mat fees are $25.00 so if your going to order, make is a good one and at least pay for your trouble. Might I suggest contacting some gun clubs and see if they have any they could sell you, or talk to some sporting good stores and see if they can get some sent in with their next shipment. Otherwise start talking to friends taking a road trip near some of the bigger sporting good stores and see if they can pick some up for you.... That hazmat fee is a real devil.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

You can reach AP by clicking RIGHT HERE.

Next, click the link that says Contact Us.
The fine folks there will let you know of a closest-by retail store. It may take $10 in gas round-trip, but that beats paying HAZMAT & shipping.

When you purchase it, buy the FFF. The FF is so thick that it won't pour out any brass/black plastic flask I own. Treat the contents of that powder with a nice, dry climate & only take what you need to the range.... not the entire container.

When returning from the range, keep what's remaining in another container... don't mix it & if temperature changes are drastic, try to moderate the temperature of that AP powder to another climate slowly.

That stuff is sugar-based & grabs moisture easily & won't let go. Keep it dry & you'll be a happy camper... oops shooter... for the life of the jug.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks Triple se7en,will do it right now and see what they say
thanks again![8D]

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Coyote170,

Shoot man--don't even try to contact APP. They don't return phone calls left as messages, they don't return emails. I wanted to try and find a closer dealer to me here in St. Louis, Mo/Alton, IL, but NOOOOOO. I want to talk to a company rep before I make any type of purchase. They left a bad taste in not returning phone calls or at least not being able to contact them. I'll go with Black Mag3 or triple 7's before I go to APP.

Paul

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

They called and Wendle left me his private 800# and was very
helpful,great people![8D]

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

I can't speak for their service, as I've never tried to contact them, but the powder itself is AWESOME! See here. and the < 1/2" groups it gives "over the chunk".

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

That is good shooting! What was your distance?
180gr bullet and 65gr APP would be too light of a combination for hunting in my view though.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Strange how I can still not get thru to anyone at APP. :eek:
If Wendle is the owner of App then maybe Wendle can give the average person a # that he can be reached to answer some questions...

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

newhunter35 try 888-255-6243 like I said real nice guy
they are very busy but that should work for you.:)

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Try 888-255-6243 thats the number he gave me.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks Coyote--the number I was using was the one listed on their website. It was quite frustrating to get the same message everyday for close to 10 days. Sometimes I would try almost every hour up till 4 pm. Thanks again.

paul

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

you can reach Wendle at 888-255-6243 he is real
nice and great to work with!:D

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Coyote 170,
I think your gonna like the American Pioneer Powder. I've been using it in a Knight for about 5yrs.

As Triple 7 already stated Keep it Dry Dry Dry. A Huge Biggy with APP. I keep a pound and pitch it after 2yrs. This yr I switched from the FF to FFF. Much easier to work with and slightly less residue.

Short Story;
I just highly recommended APP to a friend whose T/C I just spent 2 days working on. The guy had never removed the breech plug(7yrs) OR properly cleaned the barrel or plug. In past couple years he's missed,wounded deer and had at least 2 misfires all due to improper care. I salvaged the barrel,but strongly suggested APP over Pyro or 777 simply because I know he will never really properly clean the weapon. APP is alot more forgiving as far as corrosion.

Your gonna love it!

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

APP is good, but for your friend that won't clean his rifle properly maybe he should look at Black Mag'3. It is difficult to find out west but you guys should be able to find it at a dealer. It is supposed to be non-corrosive. I have not proven that yet but I intend to do some corrosion testing. I think I will set some off on a clean steel plate and then just leave it outside to see what happens with a similar plate that does not get the powder. What do you think??

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

ML,

I already convinced another Buddy who just bought his 1st smoke pole 2 yrs ago to switch to APP. He left Pyro and the load in barrel for a year! I cleaned that mess up and managed to restore barrel. He loves the APP in premeasured loose.

Some of these guys just don't understand no matter what you use it will eventually destroy your beloved smoke pole if you don't clean the freekin thing NOW - NOT LATER,3-6 MONTHS,1 YEAR, OR for God Sake 7 Freekin Yrs!

Seen Black Mag somewhere around here but can't remember where. I'm gonna stick with APP in the Knight and still use BP in my T/C. I would only switch to Black Mag if somebody hands down convinced me it would out perform APP. IMO Black Powder is the best thing you can burn in a smoke pole - But gotta clean it like a baby everyday during the season.

I would be interested in the results of your test of the 2 powders. That's the kind of info we ned here.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Got my new Cabelas shooting catalog they sell American
Pioneer Powder,saves running all over the country,makes
it easier now!:)

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

I ran a test of ffg APP,ffg 777, and Black Mag'3 just before my hunt. I shot three shot groups at 100 yards with 100gr. volume measures of all three powders and a 300gr. bullet in a Harvester sabot at 7,000 ft. altitude at about 65 degrees F. This was with a stainless T/C .50 Omega with the .25ACP conversion breechplug shooting Winchester standard small rifle primers. I detailed the whole thing on another site but will condense it here. Accuracy was better than one minute of angle with BM3, with increasing winds during the test the rest for accuracy was not a fair comparison. Velocity as follows, 777 - 1643fps. APP - 1670fps. BM3 - 1920fps. Clean up was as follows: 777 minor crud ring not allowing second shot without two wet patches followed by dry patch , APP one wet patch followed by one dry patch allowed second shot, BM3 took all three shots without any swab between shots (after third shot ran a dry patch and got a small amount of gray powder on the patch). Recoil with the 777 was sharp and uncomfortable, Recoil with the APP was better and somewhat manageable. Recoil with the BM3 was the easiest to take (apparently the light off time is somewhat slower than 777 but builds quickly as the charge starts up the barrel resulting in higher final velocity without the sharp slap that 777 exibits). I shot one group using BM3 and a 209 Winchester primer and results were similar to the previous except the velocity increased slightly to average of 2004fps. Based on above information I decided to hunt with a 90gr. load of BM3 under a 300gr. bullet which passed completely through a cow elk rib cage at about 100 yards. Specific information beyond this you can email direct at: [email protected]

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Coyote: Ii you order it through Cabelas, you will pay a Hazardous material fee of about $20-25, so you better get several lbs. to make it worth your while.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks txhunter58 its either that or drive 150 miles to
Memphis so will eat the haz mat and live with it![8D]

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

MLK,
Interesting info on the BM3. I'll have to pay attention to further info. I love the APP but am always open to something with better overall performance and easy clean up.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

From what I have heard, If I was going to eat the hazardous fee, I would probably order some Black Mag3 to try.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Southern Rod and Gun in Sikeston,Mo. will be stocking both powders
new shop good people,and lots of goodies!!!:)

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

i was told that with black mag you have to use lower loads. from what i underdstood it is not the same volume as the others. thats why you probably got the higher velocity.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Black Mag'3 is a very fine powder. Like the fffg grades of other powders there is more energy per volume than with a less fine powder. So your statement is basically correct. More energy in BM3 per volume load than most other ffg powders. I would not shoot more than a 120gr. charge in a rifle that is listed as a 150gr. capable rifle. 90gr. with a 300gr. bullet does a job on elk.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Anyone used APP pellets er oh excuse me I mean sticks? Iread somewhere that the sticks are not an exact amount of powder?
I talked with someone named Don at APP he explained that his
outside sales people were going to talk to the sportingoods people
at the 2 super wally worlds here in Ky. about carrying the APP
brands. So if anyone can enlighten me on the use of APP sticks
I would definately appreciate it.:eek:

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

I bought a pound of the "sticks". They are very irregular in shape and they weigh a variety of grains each. I personally do not see how they can be very reliable for the same energy each time. The variation from stick to stick is considerably greater than any of the pellets of 777 or Pyrodex. I intend to break mine up and make powder out of them.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

By the way if anyone else considers breaking them up. DO NOT USE A HAMMER ON AN ANVIL TO DO THIS!!!!!!!!!!
They need to be broken up with considerable care as they can be ignited by too much impact or any sparks. Be warned this is not a thing to be considered lightly. Maybe I will just go out and bury mine after thinking about it.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

It was my understanding that breaking them up is a very bad and possible dangerous idea. These are made to be ignited in a set manner and breaking them up will cause some strange load energy. I would personally load them as best as I can the way they are, you can write it off to experience, send the company a letter with your complaint of their product and see if they make some compensation if you want, and then in the future get some loose powder.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks for the info ML I had read something to that effect and
just wanted a clear answer from someone who has actually used
the "sticks". I have had good results from 777 and Pyro. pellets.
So until someone reinvents the next powder I'll stick with these.
Again thanks for the info.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Hi guy's, i been hunting with a muzzleloader ever since the early 70's.Like always i still look for better thing's.I been reading this thread about APP powder, well i been use it in stick form and like it pretty much like that to, i might add.
But now i want to try some this Black Mag 3 powder out.Does anyone know if it is made in Pellet Form? Are or there in any plans to?
thanks

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Black Mag'3 has a product in development that they showed at the Shot Show called Thundercharge. It is a solid propellant with a bullet attached to the top. Looks a little like the Hornady with pellets stuck on the stem except that it is all one piece. I'm not much of a pellet enthusiast but you asked and I know a little about the plans of Magkor. I understand that the bullet may be similar to a Powerbelt but probably will be developed specially for Magkor. I got this information second hand but I think it is reliable.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks MLKeith, thats what i like to hear,but i think Magkor might ought to rethink about fixing the bullet to the powder charge.I for one might want a diffrent style/type bullet.But i am glad to hear they are testing a solid propellant.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

LaryFox1 I too had the same question, so I e-mailed magkor
They were very prompt in returning my e-mail. If fact it came
through on a Sunday. Anyway they stated that they will not
offer Black Mag'3 in pellet form. They are going to introduce, what
they call a caseless cartridge. Pre-measured powder with one of
their bullets sitting on top. It will be called "Thunder Charge".
As hard as I tried, they would not give me a release date only
stating it would be soon. So maybe it will come out early enough
to run some tests before ML season gets here. If anyone else
has any information on this I would appreciate it if they would
post it.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Thanks H20mAn,i myself thinks that this would/is going to turn out bad,If magkor insist on making the charge with a bullet attach to it.Iam sure that there would be other's that will think it is also.I have e-mail magkor myself, but my words about this, fall on deaft ears.

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

American Pioneer Powder along with Goex have came out with a new powder that might interest some of you. The powder is called Pinnacle Replica Black Powder for Muzzleloaders. I bought two pounds of it from a Goex distributor. It was after I purchased it I learned it is made by American Pioneer Powder.

The powder is very interesting to say the least. I first would note, get the FFFg grain instead of the FFg. Like the old Clean Shot this stuff is kind of course. It is jet black in color. Still makes nice smoke, but no stink..:(

The powder so far out of three rifles I have tested it in has produced no crud ring at all. And fowling is little to none. I tested it in a T/C Black Diamond XR, Knight Wolverine II, and a Tradition's Woodsman Hawkins percussion cap lock.

Today in the Wolverine, I shot four shots first and then swabbed the barrel clean. It took two patches and there was no crud ring and very little fowling. I do shoot #11 caps in the Wolverine. I was shooting 90 grains of Pinnacle 3f. I was shooting 240 grain T/C Mag Express XTP's.



I then shot 12 more XTP's without swabbing the barrel. They all loaded as easy as the first one. Accuracy was very good actually. Although towards the 10th projectile they did start to string a little on me.





This is the result of shooting the Black Diamond XR numerous times and then swabbing the barrel before the final cleaning. As you can see by the five patches there really was not all that much fowling in the barrel. Even with the 209 Winchester Primers, there was no crud ring in the Diamond and fowling was slight..

Accuracy with the powder was real good all except when I tried to shoot some large No Excuses Conicals out of the Black Diamond XR. The rifle and that powder just did not click.

Overall the powder is very clean burning. It also cleans out of the gun easy. Fowling is next to nothing. Accuracy is good with sabots. Recoil reminds me of shooting Goex 3f. The only thing I noticed was there were moisture packets in the plastic jar the powder comes in. So to see if it is moisture sensative I kept it outside in the cold and we have a couple feet of snow on the ground but it was not snowing today. It never clumped or showed moisture problems.

This stuff is rumored to work in flintlocks, so we will see if that is true this weekend. I still have well over a pound to shoot out of the two with only two days of shooting under my belt with the powder.....

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

Gotta love that APP powder!!:)

RE: American Pioneer Powder?
 

this